90% Fail????

[AgentZ86]

Trade that plan

I disagree. I'd say >90% of profitable trading is skill & knowledge. I don't get what you mean by 'emotional', do you cry when you trade?



And then what? Do you buy or sell?

Well, thats great you don't have to agree, but let me clarify for you what I mean by emotional.It's just a known fact, what is also being taught by professional training courses and even on the Bloomberg website has reference to the emotional game of trading, that just fact. Which is why the market sentiment is a big deal in trading as well and consumer confidence etc. Emotional things like that.I'm not suggesting that emotions only consist of someone crying when trading, however I'm sure there are some.But, I would say that there are many other types of emotions that need to be overcome as well as crying if that be the case for some traders.
However, you may be an excellent trader who has perhaps taken for granite that you can control your emotions when trading.However, unless your a robot almost all people/traders have emotions.A trader believes they have come up with a plan. Then they see the market moving and want to get in, so they go against there own plan out of greed(emotion). And that can work out sometimes, but also can go against you and thats no real trading plan.Also someone may get into a trade and it start going against them so they get out of the market out of fear(emotion) and as the other member pointed out that the stomach start churning etc. This reminded me of the emotional game which is one reason I responded to that pointed by the other member; and simply pointing out that when a person has a plan and the market moves against them you don't just get out because your worried. You have to have a reason other then emotional reason to get out. I mean what is the plan? Did you trade that plan? What is the stop loss or what is the exit point?; and why are you getting out ? Thats all I'm saying.
As you can see it is very emotional especially for those who have no plan and just trying to figure out what indicators to use or have no understanding of technical analysis etc.

And thats just the way it is;and people can make a great living just technical trading and using a few indicators,or fundi trading but the problem is they see all these gains passing them bye so they try to capture trades that don't fit their own plan. And thats the path to continuous losses.
Even a simple trading plan can have consistent gains along side of good money management. So knowledge may not always be 10% for some traders, however for most it's 10% knowledge and 90% emotional. It does no good to have knowledge and a good trading plan if you can't overcome the emotional part of trading.Even these mechanical systems makes one of their selling points of these systems about taking the emotions out of trading which appears to be a big selling point and appears to attract people.Why because they know it's true because of the risk/greed and the fear of loss which influences traders decisions.
I hope this helps
Happy trading to all.

 

[stevexyg]

I read it all but am none the wiser to be honest.

I really couldn't be bothered to read that last post.

 

[fifty2aces]

One last comment. In other fields we know for sure that if one works hard, no matter what, he/she will eventually get some success but it seems trading needs much more than hardwork...Only time will tell if I have the smartness, intelligence and the aptitude to be a succesful trader. Thanks again.

I know this was from earlier in the thread, but the comment jumped out at me. It seems strange to say that in other fields people can achieve success purely based on hard work - I would have thought most fields require at least some natural ability in addition to hard work.

Football would be an example - I have no doubt that Rooney, Beckham + Co. have worked incredibly hard to get as good as they are, but even if I put in an even greater amount of work, I'd never be nearly good enough to be a pro - some people just have talent in that area, and I'm (unfortunately) not one of them.

Academic disciplines are similar - I studied law at uni, and while hard work was always important, some people got straight As without excessive work, while other's gave up their lives for below average grades. And these are all people who got very high grades at school with little difficulty - some were just better suited to law than others.

I don't really find it surprising that two people can put an equal amount of effort into trading, and one succeeds while the other fails.

 

[new_trader]

I know this was from earlier in the thread, but the comment jumped out at me. It seems strange to say that in other fields people can achieve success purely based on hard work - I would have thought most fields require at least some natural ability in addition to hard work.

Football would be an example - I have no doubt that Rooney, Beckham + Co. have worked incredibly hard to get as good as they are, but even if I put in an even greater amount of work, I'd never be nearly good enough to be a pro - some people just have talent in that area, and I'm (unfortunately) not one of them.

Academic disciplines are similar - I studied law at uni, and while hard work was always important, some people got straight As without excessive work, while other's gave up their lives for below average grades. And these are all people who got very high grades at school with little difficulty - some were just better suited to law than others.

I don't really find it surprising that two people can put an equal amount of effort into trading, and one succeeds while the other fails.

Shhhhh! Don't say this! People here don't like to read that sort of stuff

 

[PKFFW]

Shhhhh! Don't say this! People here don't like to read that sort of stuff

Now now n_t, it's not that we don't like to read that. I'm absolutely sure that two people can put in the same amount of effort and one will fail while the other will "succeed". Nothing wrong with stating that.

It's just that experience and real world examples have proven time and time again that if one is to put in enough effort(however much that is for each individual) then one will "succeed".

Will they become the top trader in the world? Probably not. Will they be able to know everything in advance? Again, probably not. Will they be able to read price action perfectly and know what every tick signifies and what each and every market participant is thinking at any given moment? Well I'd have to say, again, probably not.

But will they succeed? Yes absolutely. The examples of regular joe peoples from all different walks of life, almost all different intelligence levels and with different inherent talents who have done so are too numerous to discount. To do so simply flies in the face of any rational thought and is fueled simply by a preconceived idea of how things should be rather than how they are. That and the ever present ego of course.

It's also that most of us don't judge our own success by how we do compared to another. I(and I suspect most others) simply do not care if someone else is better than me. Just like in poker, you can walk away from the table at any time and keep your winnings. The fact somenoe else has won more doesn't mean I have not won or am not a success.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[imranmir1]

PAUL71, I read your post, at last...the whole of it. You like scaring people, and you do a good job of it. I am ready for it...When I make my 1st million from trading, I will hire you as a trainee trader.

 

[gamma]

PAUL71, I read your post, at last...the whole of it. You like scaring people, and you do a good job of it. I am ready for it...When I make my 1st million from trading, I will hire you as a trainee trader.

Lol:

Comparing Paul71's input, contribution and knowledge to yours should'nt you be asking him to hire you?

 

[imranmir1]

bthomp2...what an excellent piece of post. THANK YOU. I am not even in the 1st stage, and this is precisely why I am here to get intelligent comments from experienced traders like yourself.

After being in various forums and reading numerous articles I have come to the conclusion that for someone like me who wants to go into trading as a career path won't know if he has it in him or not UNTIL he is actually trading.

By the way, is TRADING strictly out of bounds for WOMEN??? I guess it is not their 'cup of tea', is it? Maybe, because females are emotionally more fragile than men, and not so tech-savvy, is that so? Haven't found a woman trader yet.

 

[rags2riches]

By the way, is TRADING strictly out of bounds for WOMEN??? I guess it is not their 'cup of tea', is it? Maybe, because females are emotionally more fragile than men, and not so tech-savvy, is that so? Haven't found a woman trader yet.

I would have thought they would be more likely to succeed because they have less ego issues to overcome..... [this is a very large sweeping statement]

 

[gamma]

bthomp2...what an excellent piece of post. THANK YOU. I am not even in the 1st stage, and this is precisely why I am here to get intelligent comments from experienced traders like yourself.

After being in various forums and reading numerous articles I have come to the conclusion that for someone like me who wants to go into trading as a career path won't know if he has it in him or not UNTIL he is actually trading.

By the way, is TRADING strictly out of bounds for WOMEN??? I guess it is not their 'cup of tea', is it? Maybe, because females are emotionally more fragile than men, and not so tech-savvy, is that so? Haven't found a woman trader yet.

There are a lot of female traders who frequent this site
Can't wait to see what their response will be to this post.

 

[fibonelli]

bthomp2...what an excellent piece of post. THANK YOU. I am not even in the 1st stage, and this is precisely why I am here to get intelligent comments from experienced traders like yourself.

After being in various forums and reading numerous articles I have come to the conclusion that for someone like me who wants to go into trading as a career path won't know if he has it in him or not UNTIL he is actually trading.

By the way, is TRADING strictly out of bounds for WOMEN??? I guess it is not their 'cup of tea', is it? Maybe, because females are emotionally more fragile than men, and not so tech-savvy, is that so? Haven't found a woman trader yet.

I think if us men would trade more like women, eg less ego, then you should find a useful improvement in the P&L a/c.

Here's a successful one

http://www.tradertom.com/documents/62_63_64_65_66_67_68_E_Tra01_Jafari.pdf

 

[new_trader]

By the way, is TRADING strictly out of bounds for WOMEN??? I guess it is not their 'cup of tea', is it? Maybe, because females are emotionally more fragile than men, and not so tech-savvy, is that so? Haven't found a woman trader yet.

I absolutely agree. After a hard day's trading a man deserves a nice warm supper cooked and served by his obedient wife. This is after she has darned his socks and completed all the other household chores of course. Computer's are not for women! The only electrical appliances they should be using are a vacuum cleaner and oven.

 

[cu20052003]

Judge Not!

I would like to add a few pence again.........

Not a sexist, but I do agree that women are sometimes NOT SUITED for long term trading ...........

Sad, but true ...........


S K

I absolutely agree. After a hard day's trading a man deserves a nice warm supper cooked and served by his obedient wife. This is after she has darned his socks and completed all the other household chores of course. Computer's are not for women! The only electrical appliances they should be using are a vacuum cleaner and oven.

 

[Mr. Charts]

By the way, is TRADING strictly out of bounds for WOMEN??? I guess it is not their 'cup of tea', is it? Maybe, because females are emotionally more fragile than men, and not so tech-savvy, is that so? Haven't found a woman trader yet.[/QUOTE]

What total bollox !
I am not a PC person, but this is pure sexist junk.
So you think women are inferior to men, do you?
I personally know some excellent women traders.
On the moneyAM subscription board, the best day traders ARE women. In fact one of most tech savvy people there is a woman.

What has been said is like asserting that people of different ethnic origin are inferior to others.
This sort of shi* makes me angry.

 

[Chorlton]

By the way, is TRADING strictly out of bounds for WOMEN??? I guess it is not their 'cup of tea', is it? Maybe, because females are emotionally more fragile than men, and not so tech-savvy, is that so? Haven't found a woman trader yet.

I would actually suggest the opposite. IMO Women on the whole don't seem to suffer from inflated egos. However, we as Men, can suffer from this from time to time (as your post highlights!!!) and unfortunately there is no place for this in Trading.

Consequently, my personal belief is that women would probably be more capable of killing losses quickly by accepting they are wrong, more so than a man would.

I actually know a woman full-time trader who makes a very good living. Her level of discipline when it comes to trading is probably one of the highest I've personally seen.....

Chorlton

 

[dick_dastardly]

By the way, is TRADING strictly out of bounds for WOMEN??? I guess it is not their 'cup of tea', is it? Maybe, because females are emotionally more fragile than men, and not so tech-savvy, is that so? Haven't found a woman trader yet.

Spot on there imranmir1 !

Good to hear someone talk common sense for a change :cheesy:

Here's a short Public Information film you might like to watch

enjoy !


dd


WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS

YouTube - Women Know Your Limits





If the above link does not work then combine the two text strings below and then paste into your browsers addresss bar.


youtube

.com/watch?v=_lrJg8NMsFw





.

 

[nine]

Well illustrated Dick. Its great to see that those values that made the empire great and strong still remain ...

 

[Mr. Charts]

Spot on there imranmir1 !

Good to hear someone talk common sense for a change :cheesy:

Here's a short Public Information film you might like to watch

enjoy !


dd


WOMEN KNOW YOUR LIMITS

Very funny

Just wait till Sarah (Munchkins) Palin runs the world next year and you'll see what a woman can do

 

[yacarob1]

Who cares if 90% fail or 99% for that matter ?

It is best to simply focus on one's own trading without caring about how many fail.

It is an irrelevant statistic as far as I am concerned because in my world there is only 1 trader and that is me and the success rate is 100%.

There is no failure.

Unless I try to trade under the affluence of incohol and then there is failure. :clap:

 

[jamescummins]

Firslty...

"Unless I try to trade under the affluence of incohol and then there is failure"
I enjoyed the use of affluence Bit Freudian??

As per the can women trade argument - Marex's no. 1 trader on the LME floor is a woman. Very very profitable. I would honestly be amazed if anyone on this board consistently generates more than her. It is a nonsense to suggest women cant trade in my humble view. People are all different - some people can, some people cant. I think another point people regularly miss is that whilst anyone can trade, it is only the very brightest that are ever allowed to trade other peoples money, and I suspect there are very good reasons for that. Many of these people are women. Man Financial has three women trading seriously volume, natixis has a couple, barcap does... These are all floor traders market making and with risk limits for in excess of virtually everyone here....

*(I am aware there may well be a couple of people here that do throw huge sums around, but as a generalisation, I think my point stands)