Terrorism????...Blame America!!!!

[Splitlink]

The use of the "sword" happens only in two situations - defense and where Muslims are not allowed to spread the word of islam (i know someone will comment on this).

Where muslims were allowed to spread the word of islam there was no need for the "sword". In fact, many areas accepted Islam only through interaction with Muslim merchants. No "swords" used

But let's look at the use of the swords in Islam as compared to the crusades:
In islam warriors were not allowed to kill anyone that was not a fighter (old men, women, children, etc.). They were not even allowed to cut a tree. The wars usually led to very few fatalities.
A description I recall for the crusades in Bagdad (old ones... not Bush's crusades) was that there was so much blood it flowed in rivers. Anyone and everyone was killed. This was in the name of religion.

Mmmm! What a peace loving people the muslims were! They managed to get all the way up the Spanish peninsula before being turned back by peaceful means!

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other. The quicker that both sides realise that we are ruled by a bunch of greedy, bloodthirsty leaders, the better for us all.

We are all being manipulated.

 

[dick_dastardly]

No. The Quranic verses lie within three categories:

1. Verses that tell of previous events (before Islam or during the first years of Islam)
2. Verses that describe God
3. Verses that tell us rules we should follow (These do not change with time)

Some verses applied to the times. For example; alcohol was not forbidden at once. It was forbidden gradually. The muslims were first told not to pray while drunk. Then it was eventually forbidden in all forms. The verse that says "do not approach prayer while drunk" is still in the Quran but it does not apply any more.

Anyway, I am not the authority on the subject of all verses and their effects and I think the details supplied by Atilla were enough to show what each verse was meant for.

Hi wskanaan

thanks for the reply, can I ask you another question ?

A 54 yr old man taking a 9 yr old girl as a bride, which section does that come under ?


dd

 

[Crap Buddist]

Hmmm, does seem pretty much prehistoric thinking , looking at man and his history, it seems its War, with holidays of peace while people plot more war... absolutely bonkers.

If humanity cannot integrate, then for it's own sake it will have to segregate and have little pockets of zones that Crowd Lovers can huddle together in. BUT they cannot exit from it...... ehh have we just come from that? OK maybe give it another thousand years for integration to work out, maybe I was being a bit prem.

 

[wskanaan]

Hi wskanaan

thanks for the reply, can I ask you another question ?

A 54 yr old man taking a 9 yr old girl as a bride, which section does that come under ?


dd

This is something that goes back to the times... you look at the subject from your own perspective... but it may have been normal at those times... otherwise... it would have been something that deterred people of that time from Islam. Yet we had no objections at that time... they came from people looking for anything to try and criticize Islam for. We look at things based on our environment and upbringing. Interestingly, we may be doing things that were unacceptable to them. You may want to study the way people other than muslims acted at those times and the things that were acceptable to them.

 

[BSD]

In that vein I recall old Greeks in old Greece having a distinct fondness for hankypanky with very young boys that was socially acceptable at the time...

Normal people are really pretty much the same all over the world, they want to live a life of dignity where they feel accepted as equals and where they can maintain face, they want a roof over their heads and be able to feed their families, and, most importantly, they want to be happy.

That's ubiquitous all over the world.

Problem is that the masses are also eaily excitable, and susceptible to charlatans on a power trip and with evil intentions camouflaged as an answer to a question no one asked, or as a response to an invented threat that allegedly needs prompt dealing with.

Charlatans leading their peoples to gloom and doom is a large part of our history on this planet, that has happened and happens all over the place, irrespective of religion, colour or nationality.

The good news is that sthg like the EU shows that we can grow above our primitive instincts and coexist peacefully, concentraing on what we're really here for, the pursuit of happiness, and not senseless bloodshed that never changes aynthing anyway.

Has worked for the last 50 odd years at least.

 

[dick_dastardly]

We look at things based on our environment and upbringing.

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

This is where you are wrong, dead wrong.

You should have said

9 out of 10 of us look at things based on our environment and upbringing

10% of the people on this earth have a natural immunity to this awful addiction. And we come from every part of the world, every country, every culture, we are everywhere. Somehow we have the strength to break the chains imposed upon us by our upbringing, the random location of our place of birth.

The internet brings us together like never before whereas religion has always divided the majority, and will continue to do so.

Did you check out the link I sent you ( although I suspect you are already a member/lurker there )

dd

 

[forex999]

Hi wskanaan

thanks for the reply, can I ask you another question ?

A 54 yr old man taking a 9 yr old girl as a bride, which section does that come under ?


dd

ha ha ha..............
just cud not stop laughing at this!
****! i did not know my original post would create so much of discussion.

but tony Blair keeps telling you Brits that ISLAM is a peace loving religion, but show me one country where, Muslims are in a minority, and they live peacefully!! - NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY on earth

You Brits, remember the famous speech by the Muslims in Trafalgar Square, where they openly said that they want to convert the whole of Britain to ISLAM!

No wonder the Nazis and the BNP are getting stronger!

 

[wskanaan]

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
Did you check out the link I sent you ( although I suspect you are already a member/lurker there )

dd

Actually... I have to disagree with the "breakaway" argument... people invariably will show "group think" when faced with situations that threaten their belonging to the group. It starts from the individuals to the states.... one recent example is Bush's "if you're not with us then you're against us" and the way people were willing to accept the pathetic excuses for the Iraqi war - which proved to be lies and which were criticized by so many people before the war...

I have to acknowledge that there are always people the will stand for what they believe... but in general... people will ignore their own convictions in favor of the mass convictions in order to keep the feeling that they belong...

as for the link you sent me... I did not get it... so I cannot tell you if I am a member or I "lurk" there... but I expect I don't... I am not as active in forums as I used to be... I just stick to ones that I have a direct use for (in this case forex)

 

[Crap Buddist]

Actually... I have to disagree with the "breakaway" argument... people invariably will show "group think" when faced with situations that threaten their belonging to the group. It starts from the individuals to the states.... one recent example is Bush's "if you're not with us then you're against us" and the way people were willing to accept the pathetic excuses for the Iraqi war - which proved to be lies and which were criticized by so many people before the war...

I have to acknowledge that there are always people the will stand for what they believe... but in general... people will ignore their own convictions in favor of the mass convictions in order to keep the feeling that they belong...

as for the link you sent me... I did not get it... so I cannot tell you if I am a member or I "lurk" there... but I expect I don't... I am not as active in forums as I used to be... I just stick to ones that I have a direct use for (in this case forex)

Well why not help promote individual belonging and thinking?

When I heard ol Bush say "Youre either with us or your with them" I thought er, I'm or at the mo George me old mucker.

To be honest when I am with a group of people who express different views it doesn't stop me from putting my view across which may or may not agree.... Now I recognise some poeple will start to get angry or they seem to be looking for confirmation of their own viewpoint as opposed to being open to , well being open for discussion.

I drink beer then..... But there is something blocking some people from allowing discussion to continue, they go on lock down. maybe the idea of a radical switcheroo of thought or values seems a bit too much for them to deal with at that time.... I dunno, shame though because that kind of non engagement in talk often leads to a deployment physical force to get points across.

 

[Atilla]

ha ha ha..............
just cud not stop laughing at this!
****! i did not know my original post would create so much of discussion.

but tony Blair keeps telling you Brits that ISLAM is a peace loving religion, but show me one country where, Muslims are in a minority, and they live peacefully!! - NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY on earth

You Brits, remember the famous speech by the Muslims in Trafalgar Square, where they openly said that they want to convert the whole of Britain to ISLAM!

No wonder the Nazis and the BNP are getting stronger!

You're pathetic you know that. It is easy to criticise and you are no better than a Nazis or a BNP supporter.

Do you reckon a rable of half wit twits going to change parliament?

I recall seeing a documentary on TV about the problems, young brides in India face having to give birth at a young tender age because their hips haven't developed. Subsequently they were having all sorts of complications.

The very stupid culture of many societies you laugh at also occurs in your very own.

People are the same every where irrespective of race, colour or creed. You are pretty stupid in not even maintaining any one discussion but jumping from one issue to another.

As for marrying off young girls it is becuase historically, girls are perceived to be a cost burden and males cash generative. Think about it you should know in your culture about rejecting brides if insufficient dowdry is paid?

When the son of a goat - Afghani takes a bride at 9 when he is 54 it is either to help his first wife or his doing his neighbour a favour.

Do you really think his going to have great fun getting his end away. (Ofcourse you may well immediately think as such). How much fun can you get out of a 9 year old you TWISTED PERVERT. The sick son of a goat wants a young nurse to look after him and perhaps may attempt to in due course but you need to be aware of life culture and people of the land...

Some people a really distasteful...

I have many Indian friends of all sects and they are great guys very smart considerate and religious not eating any meet and so on, but you are one very nasty piece of creation imho.

 

[dick_dastardly]

Actually... I have to disagree with the "breakaway" argument... people invariably will show "group think" when faced with situations that threaten their belonging to the group. It starts from the individuals to the states.... one recent example is Bush's "if you're not with us then you're against us"

Yes, the most famous example of a false dichotomy in recent times I would say.

I'm not sure what you mean by breakaway argument, I think I know what you're getting at.

Richard Dawkins once said,

"atheists are free thinking and trying to organise them to pull together is like trying to herd cats "


Richard Dawkins

as for the link you sent me... I did not get it... so I cannot tell you if I am a member or I "lurk" there... but I expect I don't... I am not as active in forums as I used to be... I just stick to ones that I have a direct use for (in this case forex)

Sorry, I sent you the link in a comment when I recommended your post above. You can see it if you click on the UserCP link towards the top of this page.

Anyway, here's the link

Faith Freedom International :: Index

This is the place to go if you feel Islam is being misrepresented and you want to defend it against people who lie about Islam.

It is a civilised place and you will be treated with respect although the occassional troll/a**hole does appear to keep the Mods busy.

Many of the members there are Muslims and there are some parts of the site you are not allowed to post in unless you are/were a Muslim.

Go to the new members section and introduce yourself and please tell other Muslims about the site.

Be warned though, if you go there your arguments will be challenged and some Muslims apostasise after finding their religious beliefs do not bear scrutiny.

But do not be afraid, I'm sure the hand of Allah is on your shoulder to guide and protect you.


dd

 

[dick_dastardly]

Atilla

The 54 yr old, do you know what his name was ?

dd

 

[Atilla]

Atilla

The 54 yr old, do you know what his name was ?

dd

Which one of the myriad 54 year olds taking 9 year old brides are you referring to?

 

[dick_dastardly]

Which one of the myriad 54 year olds taking 9 year old brides are you referring to?

Good answer LOL ! Like it :cheesy:

dd

 

[Atilla]

Good answer LOL ! Like it :cheesy:

dd

I don't care what they say about you Dick, you're alright...

 

[forex999]

Please help me if the verses on the Quran is false in this video, Tony Blair and Prince Charles always tells us that Islam is a Peace Loving Religion. I have no reason to doubt them, they are right.

Please note this video has disturbing pictures, dont watch if you have a a very weak heart!
Video: Fitna the Movie: Geert Wilders' film about the Quran (English)

 

[dcraig1]

forex999,

I am going to call a spade a spade here, and describe you as what you are - a hate mongering fanatic.

I can assure you that I dislike all religion as much as the next atheist, but the reality of the world is that religion is pervasive and the different religions need to get on with each other. The likes of this trash is not likely to further that goal.

Let me remined you of the two world wars fought (with the exception of Japan) by Christian nations. Yes, the Nazis had god on their side too, as did the Germans in World War I. The greatest mass destruction ever seen was carrried out by the Christian allies in their carpet bombing of the German and Japanese cities in WWII culminating in the nuclear fireballs obliterating two Japanese cities. More recently Nixon had god on his side too in the carpet bombing of Vietnam and Cambodia.

And Bush was God's right hand man in the war on Iraq.

So why don't you just go and peddle your fanaticism elsewhere.

 

[Splitlink]

There is not a lot of love lost between the Indians and Pakistanis, just as there isn't between the Israelis and Palestinians, so I am willing to give Forex999 a bit of rope, but I would put it to him that ordinary Indians and ordinary Pakistanis don't give a **** what he thinks, except that he is stirring up a lot of trouble where we could do with a lot less.

Ordinary Indian and ordinary Pakistanis did not create the atomic warheads that both sides now have. Neither do ordinary Iranians have anything to do with what their leaders have planned in that field.

Unfortunately, we ordinary types do get wound up by what our leaders shout at us from their soapboxes.

There is serious doubt about whether the Spanish did sink the Maine, but Teddy Roosevelt won the day because he was a brash, mouthy politician. The Yanks loved him. So the US tossed the Spanish out of the West Indies and the Porto Ricans, who thought that they were going to get independence, found that they were annexed by the US.

 

[forex999]

There is not a lot of love lost between the Indians and Pakistanis, just as there isn't between the Israelis and Palestinians, so I am willing to give Forex999 a bit of rope, but I would put it to him that ordinary Indians and ordinary Pakistanis don't give a **** what he thinks, except that he is stirring up a lot of trouble where we could do with a lot less.

Ordinary Indian and ordinary Pakistanis did not create the atomic warheads that both sides now have. Neither do ordinary Iranians have anything to do with what their leaders have planned in that field.

Unfortunately, we ordinary types do get wound up by what our leaders shout at us from their soapboxes.

There is serious doubt about whether the Spanish did sink the Maine, but Teddy Roosevelt won the day because he was a brash, mouthy politician. The Yanks loved him. So the US tossed the Spanish out of the West Indies and the Porto Ricans, who thought that they were going to get independence, found that they were annexed by the US.

Hi I agree with you! Ordinary Indians just want peace! Peace!
Om Shanti! Om shanti! Om Shanti!

and I am just an Ordinary Indian

 

[Splitlink]

Hi I agree with you! Ordinary Indians just want peace! Peace!
Om Shanti! Om shanti! Om Shanti!

and I am just an Ordinary Indian

Well, I'm glad to hear you say that. You don't sound like one. In fact, you sound like a Muslim to me!