Same old story I guess. Arn't you bundling people into little herds and groups which is what religion essentially does and then judging them?
Even anarchists in their aspiration to demonstrate against the status quo all end up looking like each other in their hair cuts, tattoos and clothes...
In reply to your questions...
1. You like Dorkin's skip over one of the most important of questions such as the soul and emotions.
Do you really believe science has some drug form of medical treatment to all the sad souls out in the world?
Do you seriously believe, drugs and alcohol make you happy and fullfill your senses?
Even the filthy rich end up committing suicide so how does sex, drugs and rock n roll get explained away by science, Darwin or Dorkins?
I still hold the view that to use the word science to the theory of evolution and applying it to humans is fudging the issue. Science is precise, exact and reproducable in experiments. It does not account for the billions of idiosynchrosies of individual human beings.
Look in a nut shell, humans are curious little creatures want to know everything and control their lives. They want to live for ever.
A. We don't know where we come from.
B. We have relatively a short insignificant life span.
C. We don't know where we end up.
So what is the scientific answer to it all?
2. You take so called religious text which no doubt has been modified and re-written through out the ages as gospel. Text probably intended to men with IQs of maybe 10, during the dog eat dog world of medieval periods.
In fact some of the listings pretty much go on today in some cultures and places but the problem is we interpret the acts of men as if they epitomise the creators devine guidance and order because men use religion to justify their acts.
I concur with your point here but I make a distinction between what is right and what is wrong on my own conscience and logic not from what I am preached by two wooden planks.
I may have been wrong with my statement "We all know we are doing wrong even when we are doing it."
In some cases what is wrong can be tought as right and religious leaders / spoke persons are undoubtedly guilty of this. I suppose man has to judge and choose the path he treads for himself. Beauty of life I guess coupled with many thorns attached to that choice.
3. I can relate to your write up about the consciense that evolves and changes through time. Good point. I guess these days you could pretty much get locked up for raping ones wife which might well have been laughed at few decades back.
According to Dorkins book, in our European cradle of civilisation women didn't have the vote until;
UK 1928
France 1945
Belgium 1946
Switzerland 1971 (this was a shocker to me)
4. I don't think I'm clutching at straws. I think simple people attribute to God all that is positive that they don't understand and to the devil all that is evil. Not a bad pigeon box to compartmentalise the vast universe we live in.
Some people take a very arrogant airs with science as explaining everything under the sun. The power of the mind and the soul are still mysterys to man despite our exponential development.
On a program on TV recently about Dorkin's views on evolution allocated all of 10 seconds to explain the soul as couple of neurons grouping together whilst banging their drums about how ridicilous concept of miracles were.
Typically we concentrate on what we know rather than what we don't.
5. I pick science. But I don't see science refuting the creator. The jury is out pending further evidence. I don't see anything in God as the creator refuting science either.
Where did the law of gravity originate from? It all has to have come from somewhere. Instead of x let's call it God until we find it's source.
6. No I don't think dinosaur bones were planted on earth by the devil.
Do you believe Charles Darwin's theory also applies to the universe? That is some galaxies die. Some are born. AND some are continuing to evolve? We are talking about billions and billions of galaxies over billions and billions of years?
Do you believe in the natural selection of the galaxies and the elimination of unsuccessful galaxies?
Don't blame you as so do I... I say this sincerely but what is precisely the relevance to me until a meteor decides to land on Earth???
If a meteor is heading to earth - of all the billions of years, why now, why earth and why me? God only knows.:cheesy:
I reckon some quite contemplation and prayer over a glass of wine, will make me more happy for the journey that lies ahead, toasting the joy of life.
hey you know I usually avoid these topics, don't know what came over me last night
I read your responses and they have merit, I might have classed you as a bit of a christian fundamentalist so I'm sorry about that, I could respond to a few pointers but as you seem to grasp life is far too complicated to try and sum up with but what if, what when etc etc
Me personally, I do beleive in science but I also beleive in something more, something which has not yet been explained, maybe it never will but I do not beleive a male chauvinist pig God is sitting up in heaven, playing tricks on us to test our faith and will one day send his only son (LOL) to rapture some of us and send the rest to hell.
I don't think we can handle or even grasp the answer yet, whatever it is.
I think we agree there are universal laws on what is right and wrong and as we evolve so do our morals with them. I don't beleive you need the bible to know that.
I saw a documentry on Freemasonry the other night and although it's not a religion per se I think it's as close to a perfect one as I have seen.
Freemasonry is a worldwide fraternity founded on the principles of brotherhood, with no affiliation to any particular religion, sect or creed. It thus gives the opportunity for all of its members to meet on a common ground, exercising the utmost tolerance and understanding of all genuinely held beliefs. While it requires an acceptance of a Supreme Being or Principal (God), it leaves the individual free to interpret these archetypal ideas according to their personal development.
I see you mentioned gravity as well, and that's what I'm talking about. There are so many perfect laws in the universe, from all the perfect conditions to sustain our life, a cell with pre programmed knowledge that knows to allow for extra skin around our elbows so that we can bend our arms lol
We are talking in fairly simple terms here, like a childrens picture book but really life, the universe is so amazing and so complex that this seems like folly.
I have a wife and child I love dearly and I do hope that I get to see them after of all this and that love does mean something and is not just a chemical reaction to ensure our species survival but I'll wait and see what happens and if nothing does and my body rots and that is the end of me at least I won't be sitting in a room of nothing thinking "oh sh!* there really is nothing so really nothing to worry about haha.
I'm going to end my ramble there before I confuse myself.
Chow!
