Terrorism????...Blame America!!!!

US general damns Iraq 'nightmare'
A former US military chief in Iraq has condemned the current strategy in the conflict, which he warned was "a nightmare with no end in sight".

Retired Lt Gen Ricardo Sanchez also labelled US political leaders as "incompetent" and "corrupted".

He said they would have faced courts martial for dereliction of duty had they been in the military.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7042805.stm

Scorch earth policy.

2.2m refugees. 600,000 dead according to UN methods.

Official Iraqi/American version will have you believe 80,000. :LOL: 4,000 dead US soldiers, 20,000 severely injured some missing limbs. Of the 130,000 US marines substantial % suffering psychological issues.

Countless - millions people who are alive missing loved sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts, wives and husbands, orphaned children.

US hell bent on obtaining it's oil (world's 1/3 remaining oil reserves) from Mosul and Kirkuk.

20 March 2003: The war begins
Air strikes over Baghdad signalled the start of the US-led invasion of Iraq. President Bush said the invasion was undertaken because Saddam Hussein's government possessed weapons of mass destruction and supported terrorism. Within three weeks Baghdad had fallen and the country was under the control of US-led coalition.

There will be payment for US politician's sins. It will come from the US citizens with no pension and no health in their retirement but heck of a lot of debt to pay.

It's literally your money or your life. If only people woke up and smell the BS oozing from the White House...
 
"Masters of war plan for next 100 years"

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/IJ16Aa01.html

I agree there, unfortunately.

Fortunately, you can have the largest armies in the world and employ the most gruesome tactics in occupying and trying to subdue a country, but even if that country is a third world David compared to your Goliath, ultimately your best efforts will still be an exercise in futility and, unfortunately, entirely pointless bloodshed and suffering, as the Soviet Union proved in Afghanistan, or the USA demonstrated in Vietnam or now again in Iraq.

It always takes the occupier time to swallow it's pride and admit inevitable defeat, but, irrespective of size, the push of any occupier is always met with sufficient shove from the occupied, making the status quo of occupation untenable for any long run.

Unfortunately, a countries ability to waste a lot of money on maintaing a huge army by no means seems to go hand in hand with installing a leadership endowed with sufficient brains to understand the limitations of said firing power. ;-)

Ah. C'est la vie, non ?
 

Too right DCraig, I would add that I reckon sooner or later the US will get the Kurds to use chemical weapons against the Iranians. I'm guessing Iran will defend it self by launching an offensive against these terrorists. Proxy wars is the name of the game. Get other little people to fight your wars for you. The Kurds are intoxicated with power and lust for oil at the moment that they can't see beyond their noses.

Very interesting article below... If anybody is interested in the bigger power plays for oil and the next war on the Agenda against Iran. Suriye will be next.

Report: U.S. Sponsoring Kurdish Guerilla Attacks Inside Iran

Here is an extract below...

AMY GOODMAN: And finally Reese Erlich, the relationship of Britain and Israel, both U.S. Allies with these parties.

REESE ERLICH: Israel is backing various Kurdish groups. Both among the Iraqi Kurds as well as the P.J.A.K. among the Iranian Kurds. For Israel that have a long history of supporting non-Arab countries in an effort to divide the Arab world so they supported the Shah of Iran, Hali Salasi in Ethiopia. Turkey, they were allied in Turkey for many years and they see trying to use the Kurds in the same way. You have Israeli security officials training the guards at the Arabial Airport in northern Iraq. You have training of special anti-terrorism squads. I think they're working with P.J.A.K. although this is all denied by P.J.A.K. and the Israelis are also playing a very dangerous game because they are intervening in the affairs of Iraq and causing a great deal of trouble both for Iran and now they're outs with Turkey who was their long-time ally.

AMY GOODMAN: You described in your forth coming book about Israel participating actively in -- with Mossad agents posing as businessmen setting up shop in the K.R.G. soon after the 2003 U.S. invasion, in B.B.C. TV, discovering Israeli former special forces soldiers training Kurdish security at the airport. Say more about that.

REESE ERLICH: Yeah, exactly. The B.B.C. did a very good television special in which they interviewed these former Israeli intelligence agents who are now allegedly working as private contractors, much like the C.I.A. does with it's agents around the world. So it was on TV and when I asked the Iran -- the Iraqi officials about this, they denied everything, even though they had been on TV and an obviously reputable news organization. I had talked to various people who had met with supposed Israeli businessmen who were much more interested in arms trades and intelligence and that sort of thing.

So the Israelis have significantly stepped up their activities in northern Iraq. I think if ultimately the Iraq war goes very badly for the United States, as all indications are that it will, eventually Iraq will split into three different countries including an independent Kurdistan on the north and the Israelis hope to benefit from that by having a beachhead against the Sunni and the Shiia and Arab parts of Iraq and as well as the other neighboring Arab countries. That's a long time goal of the Israelis.

AMY GOODMAN: Reese Erlich is an independent radio producer and journalist, he reports on Iran on the latest issue of Mother Jones magazine. He is the author of the forth coming book The Iran Agenda: The Real Story of U.S. Policy in the Middle East Crisis. I spoke to him in San Francisco.

-----------

I do think stakes are rising along with Oil and Gold... Dollar falling.

If oil flows are disrupted from Iraq and Iran I can see oil hitting $200 let alone $100.

Saddam Husseyin, Weapons of Mass Destruction and Democracy sounds surreal :!:
 
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Atilla,

From a US perspective, something of a dilemma.

The southern Turkey base at Incirlik is, and presumably will remain so (not definite) , the principle springboard for US/Nato operations in the Near/Middle East. It shares a border with Kurdish northern Iraq. Turkey is a US ally, and is fighting the Kurds. The Israelis are supporting the Kurds, the US supports Israel (and with the Jewish vote/lobby in the US possibly the most significant in terms of influence and funds/revenue).

By association, Israel is an enemy of Turkey but an ally of the US; Turkey is an enemy of Israel but a US ally. On very simplistic level, for strategic reasons I don’t see the US dumping Turkey, but Turkey could dump the US on political/religious/ideological grounds.

Of course, this would be a major loss – for both sides - but I reckon this will be partly offset by further consolidation of Middle Eastern Islamic – and oil producing – states. In terms of fire power, this would still be inferior to the US military but the oil strategic advantage, ie international economic influence force could well keep this in check.

Grant.
 
Atilla,

From a US perspective, something of a dilemma.

The southern Turkey base at Incirlik is, and presumably will remain so (not definite) , the principle springboard for US/Nato operations in the Near/Middle East. It shares a border with Kurdish northern Iraq. Turkey is a US ally, and is fighting the Kurds. The Israelis are supporting the Kurds, the US supports Israel (and with the Jewish vote/lobby in the US possibly the most significant in terms of influence and funds/revenue).

By association, Israel is an enemy of Turkey but an ally of the US; Turkey is an enemy of Israel but a US ally. On very simplistic level, for strategic reasons I don’t see the US dumping Turkey, but Turkey could dump the US on political/religious/ideological grounds. I don't believe Turkey considered Israel to be an enemy but quite the opposite. My understanding of regional events is that US, Turkey and Israel had cosy relationships. In fact Turkey's relationships with Suriye and Iran until recently were very forsty to say the least. Turkey almost went to war with Suriye precisely for the same reason as it is considering today.

Of course, this would be a major loss – for both sides - but I reckon this will be partly offset by further consolidation of Middle Eastern Islamic – and oil producing – states. Not sure I understand what you mean by consolidation of ME oil states. Are we talking OPEC cartels? In terms of fire power, this would still be inferior to the US military but the oil strategic advantage, ie international economic influence force could well keep this in check. In terms of fire power US is looking at Russia and China not the ME states. Suriye, Turkey and Iran are not isolated like Iraq was. Also, not sure US economy or military is up to the job either. It may destroy and wipe out the area but it will also nail it's coffin. Any action will inevitably mean Russia and China ultimately gain more dominance and influencing, destroying US ability to fight any future wars. Even India has given the US a cold shoulder.

Grant.


These events are very high risk and low return imo. The bigger picture is purely oil and Caspian sea resources such as oil, gas and other minerals.

Just as the US in Iraq, the Israelis have exceeded them selves in their obsession with Iran. No matter how strong it's lobby is or how rich in funds people can turn very quickly and sentiments can change.

9/11 conspiracy theories are looking increasingly like factual documentaries to me. Afghanistan is merely a rear front to terrorise Iran and another base to control central Asian resources.

US bluffed about going to war with Iran over the hostage crises and retreated. I think most people are realistic about consequences. They are now using the Kurds.

Israel knows it can't do much on it's own and it is using America and the Kurds to it's maximum strategic advantage.

There are many in the US who know what is happening but keeping mum. The pentagon command control I think have the world devided into 4 or 6 sectors and they don't necessarily talk to each other and have opposing views that conflict with their strategic objectives.

The much respected colonel Colin Powell and many other generals are in the rear and watching. Rumsfeld and the neo-cons are in retreat (you could say - disgraced). Bush and Blair have built their legacy (Blair is still in denial pretending to be peace maker - dellusional rambling baffoon that he has become. No foreign ME politician takes him seriously. Comical imo).

When superpowers begin to depend on military might instead of economic ability, there end is near.

My view is that these minerals - oil, gas and commodities could be purchased for much lower prices in the free market. I'm not sure it's worth the risk, strife or loss of life.

Not much to be gained and but a great deal to be lost. :cry:
 
mmm, all the richest people on the planet, how come they dont choose to help the masses? surely they would feel greater reward if they generated huge wealth but assisted their neighbours in the process? or can it only be done by screwing people into the ground....?

I mean dont they care ? its weird.... I just dont get it... wheres their compassion or belief in compassion ?


Today
1. Is it human nature to discriminate?

2. Is it human nature to be compassionate?


what is alien today ?

Additional, caught that documentary about the not dead. It said More British servicemen have killed themselves since returning from the Falklands than were killed in the falklands conflict. That says a lot, god bless em.
 
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mmm, all the richest people on the planet, how come they dont choose to help the masses? surely they would feel greater reward if they generated huge wealth but assisted their neighbours in the process? or can it only be done by screwing people into the ground....?

I mean dont they care ? its weird.... I just dont get it... wheres their compassion or belief in compassion ?


Today
1. Is it human nature to discriminate?

2. Is it human nature to be compassionate?


what is alien today ?

Additional, caught that documentary about the not dead. It said More British servicemen have killed themselves since returning from the Falklands than were killed in the falklands conflict. That says a lot, god bless em.

All that you say is very sad, but I have no illusions about man's inhumanity to man.

You need go no farther than your own workplace, unless you are extremely lucky. Backstabbing, with favourites getting jobs that they are not suited to handle, goes on all the time. Even amongst the members of the church, I bet.

The soldiers, especially the injured ones, are soon forgotten when they get home.

Split
 
Yes, it is, but very human, too.. I doubt whether this nasty part of human nature can be irradicated. Don't you remember the school playground?

War brutalises soldiers. Police work brutalises policemen but that is not the end of it.

Normal decent people, when in groups, can become cruel to minorities when incited by its leaders to be so. I've had some of that, as an evacuee in WWII and, as I said before, in workplaces minorities can be made to feel most unhappy and unwanted.

Split
 
Yes, it is, but very human, too.. I doubt whether this nasty part of human nature can be irradicated. Don't you remember the school playground?

War brutalises soldiers. Police work brutalises policemen but that is not the end of it.

Normal decent people, when in groups, can become cruel to minorities when incited by its leaders to be so. I've had some of that, as an evacuee in WWII and, as I said before, in workplaces minorities can be made to feel most unhappy and unwanted.

Split

The problem with all this is when LA police beat a (I think it was a Mr King) a black guy to a pulp because he resisted arrest or something and supposedly struck one of the officers whilst protecting his head from their battons...

The evidence is captured on film and then the courts see no wrong doing in the actions of the police and allow them to return back to work - you have riots on the streets.

The US Blackwater group have been found guilty of killing 17 civilian Iraqis (Elite :LOL: protective force they are called) and yet no punishment will be served to the guilty offenders as a free democratically elected Iraqi parliemant has no jurisdiction over American citizens? :LOL: They are kindly asked to leave and not operate in Iraq. Investigators could not find any evidence of any bullets being fired at these guys.


We all know what is right and what is wrong. We all know it happens.


The problem is when in a democratically free society we all sit back and say it's normal and not my problem. What goes round comes round.

One day it could be you!



At work after mentioning the taesar gun incidents I was told this true story that happened to a friend of my friend...

Having a night in - take away over a video with his girlfriend - this guy steps out of the shop and starts running because he doesn't want his take away fish and chips to get cold and soggy. Couple of police see him and call out stop ~ something something.

This guy, he hasn't done anything wrong the stop is from a distance ignores it and carries on running (He admits hearing a stop but has no recollection of police or shouts or anything like that. In all honesty this is a normal honest average man having a Friday night in I was told).

As he nears his home down one side street, two police cars with sirens wailing pull up and about 4 big police officers race at him asking him to raise his hands in the air...

My friend tells me if his firend was black he is sure his friend would have been zapped or tackled physically as the police were so excited about his chips.

So all this business is awfuly close to home.



On perhaps a related note - Gordon Brown's 58 day detention is way over the top! That's his image of being tough on crime :cheesy:

What could possibly take 58 days to identify, locate or research?

Are British police really that ineffective, slow and bad at their job?
 
Is this the answer?

"This is one of the most requested programs in FRONTLINE's history. It is about an Iowa schoolteacher who, the day after Martin Luther King Jr. was murdered in 1968, gave her third-grade students a first-hand experience in the meaning of discrimination. This is the story of what she taught the children, and the impact that lesson had on their lives."


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/etc/view.html



888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888


hmmm, the scary thing is, its still happening ? hence why I queried is it human nature to discriminate still today ? As a survival instinct ? Your not the same, so potential threat ? skin colour, accents, religious beliefs...

and is there such a thing as positive discrimination ? how can it be positive?



well done teacher anyway.
 
"This is one of the most requested programs in FRONTLINE's history. It is about an Iowa schoolteacher who, the day after Martin Luther King Jr. was murdered in 1968, gave her third-grade students a first-hand experience in the meaning of discrimination. This is the story of what she taught the children, and the impact that lesson had on their lives."


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/divided/etc/view.html



888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888


hmmm, the scary thing is, its still happening ? hence why I queried is it human nature to discriminate still today ? As a survival instinct ? Your not the same, so potential threat ? skin colour, accents, religious beliefs...

and is there such a thing as positive discrimination ? how can it be positive?



well done teacher anyway.

Sad fact is you are either with US policy or against.

That is the official white house policy as perceived by blue eyed Bush muppet.


I thought the link was excellent. Watched all the films.

I remember watching a German movie along similar experiment which goes horribly wrong people actually take on the role and parts for real and start killing dissenters.
 
Salt Lake City Mayor: Draw Your Line In the Sand

Address by Mayor Ross C. “Rocky” Anderson

Today, as we come together once again in this great city, we raise our voices in unison to say to President Bush, to Vice President Cheney, to other members of the Bush Administration (past and present), to a majority of Congress, including Utah’s entire congressional delegation, and to much of the mainstream media: “You have failed us miserably and we won’t take it any more.”

“While we had every reason to expect far more of you, you have been pompous, greedy, cruel, and incompetent as you have led this great nation to a moral, military, and national security abyss.”

“You have breached trust with the American people in the most egregious ways. You have utterly failed in the performance of your jobs. You have undermined our Constitution, permitted the violation of the most fundamental treaty obligations, and betrayed the rule of law.”

“You have engaged in, or permitted, heinous human rights abuses of the sort never before countenanced in our nation’s history as a matter of official policy. You have sent American men and women to kill and be killed on the basis of lies, on the basis of shifting justifications, without competent leadership, and without even a coherent plan for this monumental blunder.”

“We are here to tell you: We won’t take it any more!”

“You have acted in direct contravention of values that we, as Americans who love our country, hold dear. You have deceived us in the most cynical, outrageous ways. You have undermined, or allowed the undermining of, our constitutional system of checks and balances among the three presumed co-equal branches of government. You have helped lead our nation to the brink of fascism, of a dictatorship contemptuous of our nation’s treaty obligations, federal statutory law, our Constitution, and the rule of law.”

“Because of you, and because of your jingoistic false ‘patriotism,’ our world is far more dangerous, our nation is far more despised, and the threat of terrorism is far greater than ever before.

It has been absolutely astounding how you have committed the most horrendous acts, causing such needless tragedy in the lives of millions of people, yet you wear your so-called religion on your sleeves, asserting your God-is-on-my-side nonsense – when what you have done flies in the face of any religious or humanitarian tradition. Your hypocrisy is mind-boggling – and disgraceful. What part of “Thou shalt not kill” do you not understand? What part of the “Golden rule” do you not understand? What part of “be honest,” “be responsible,” and “be accountable” don’t you understand? What part of “Blessed are the peacekeepers” do you not understand?

Because of you, hundreds of thousands of people have been killed, many thousands of people have suffered horrendous lifetime injuries, and millions have been run off from their homes. For the sake of our nation, for the sake of our children, and for the sake of our brothers and sisters around the world, we are morally compelled to say, as loudly as we can, ‘We won’t take it any more!’ ”

“As United States agents kidnap, disappear, and torture human beings around the world, you justify, you deceive, and you cover up. We find what you have done to men, women and children, and to the good name and reputation of the United States, so appalling, so unconscionable, and so outrageous as to compel us to call upon you to step aside and allow other men and women who are competent, true to our nation’s values, and with high moral principles to stand in your places – for the good of our nation, for the good of our children, and for the good of our world.”

In the case of the President and Vice President, this means impeachment and removal from office, without any further delay from a complacent, complicit Congress, the Democratic majority of which cares more about political gain in 2008 than it does about the vindication of our Constitution, the rule of law, and democratic accountability.

It means the election of people as President and Vice President who, unlike most of the presidential candidates from both major parties, have not aided and abetted in the perpetration of the illegal, tragic, devastating invasion and occupation of Iraq. And it means the election of people as President and Vice President who will commit to return our nation to the moral and strategic imperative of refraining from torturing human beings.

In the case of the majority of Congress, it means electing people who are diligent enough to learn the facts, including reading available National Intelligence Estimates, before voting to go to war. It means electing to Congress men and women who will jealously guard Congress’s sole prerogative to declare war. It means electing to Congress men and women who will not submit like vapid lap dogs to presidential requests for blank checks to engage in so-called preemptive wars, for legislation permitting warrantless wiretapping of communications involving US citizens, and for dangerous, irresponsible, saber-rattling legislation like the recent Kyl-Lieberman amendment.

We must avoid the trap of focusing the blame solely upon President Bush and Vice-President Cheney. This is not just about a few people who have wronged our country – and the world. They were enabled by members of both parties in Congress, they were enabled by the pathetic mainstream news media, and, ultimately, they have been enabled by the American people – 40% of whom are so ill-informed they still think Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks – a people who know and care more about baseball statistics and which drunken starlets are wearing underwear than they know and care about the atrocities being committed every single day in our name by a government for which we need to take responsibility.

As loyal Americans, without regard to political partisanship -- as veterans, as teachers, as religious leaders, as working men and women, as students, as professionals, as businesspeople, as public servants, as retirees, as people of all ages, races, ethnic origins, sexual orientations, and faiths -- we are here to say to the Bush administration, to the majority of Congress, and to the mainstream media: “You have violated your solemn responsibilities. You have undermined our democracy, spat upon our Constitution, and engaged in outrageous, despicable acts. You have brought our nation to a point of immorality, inhumanity, and illegality of immense, tragic, unprecedented proportions.”

“But we will live up to our responsibilities as citizens, as brothers and sisters of those who have suffered as a result of the imperial bullying of the United States government, and as moral actors who must take a stand: And we will, and must, mean it when we say ‘We won’t take it any more.’”

If we want principled, courageous elected officials, we need to be principled, courageous, and tenacious ourselves. History has demonstrated that our elected officials are not the leaders – the leadership has to come from us. If we don’t insist, if we don’t persist, then we are not living up to our responsibilities as citizens in a democracy – and our responsibilities as moral human beings. If we remain silent, we signal to Congress and the Bush administration – and to candidates running for office – and to the world – that we support the status quo.

Silence is complicity. Only by standing up for what’s right and never letting down can we say we are doing our part.

Our government, on the basis of a campaign we now know was entirely fraudulent, attacked and militarily occupied a nation that posed no danger to the United States. Our government, acting in our name, has caused immense, unjustified death and destruction.

It all started five years ago, yet where have we, the American people, been? At this point, we are responsible. We get together once in a while at demonstrations and complain about Bush and Cheney, about Congress, and about the pathetic news media. We point fingers and yell a lot. Then most people politely go away until another demonstration a few months later.

How many people can honestly say they have spent as much time learning about and opposing the outrages of the Bush administration as they have spent watching sports or mindless television programs during the past five years? Escapist, time-sapping sports and insipid entertainment have indeed become the opiate of the masses.

Why is this country so sound asleep? Why do we abide what is happening to our nation, to our Constitution, to the cause of peace and international law and order? Why are we not doing all in our power to put an end to this madness?

We should be in the streets regularly and students should be raising hell on our campuses. We should be making it clear in every way possible that apologies or convoluted, disingenuous explanations just don’t cut it when presidential candidates and so many others voted to authorize George Bush and his neo-con buddies to send American men and women to attack and occupy Iraq.

Let’s awaken, and wake up the country by committing here and now to do all each of us can to take our nation back. Let them hear us across the country, as we ask others to join us: “We won’t take it any more!”

I implore you: Draw a line. Figure out exactly where your own moral breaking point is. How much will you put up with before you say “No more” and mean it?

I have drawn my line as a matter of simple personal morality: I cannot, and will not, support any candidate who has voted to fund the atrocities in Iraq. I cannot, and will not, support any candidate who will not commit to remove all US troops, as soon as possible, from Iraq. I cannot, and will not, support any candidate who has supported legislation that takes us one step closer to attacking Iran. I cannot, and will not, support any candidate who has not fought to stop the kidnapping, disappearances, and torture being carried on in our name.

If we expect our nation’s elected officials to take us seriously, let us send a powerful message they cannot misunderstand. Let them know we really do have our moral breaking point. Let them know we have drawn a bright line. Let them know they cannot take our support for granted – that, regardless of their party and regardless of other political considerations, they will not have our support if they cannot provide, and have not provided, principled leadership.

The people of this nation may have been far too quiet for five years, but let us pledge that we won’t let it go on one more day – that we will do all we can to put an end to the illegalities, the moral degradation, and the disintegration of our nation’s reputation in the world.

Let us be unified in drawing the line – in declaring that we do have a moral breaking point. Let us insist, together, in supporting our troops and in gratitude for the freedoms for which our veterans gave so much, that we bring our troops home from Iraq, that we return our government to a constitutional democracy, and that we commit to honoring the fundamental principles of human rights.

In defense of our country, in defense of our Constitution, in defense of our shared values as Americans – and as moral human beings – we declare today that we will fight in every way possible to stop the insanity, stop the continued military occupation of Iraq, and stop the moral depravity reflected by the kidnapping, disappearing, and torture of people around the world.

Source:
http://www.nationalexpositor.com/print/665.html
 
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