Terrorism????...Blame America!!!!

[Atilla]

Salt Lake City Mayor: Draw Your Line In the Sand

Address by Mayor Ross C. “Rocky” Anderson

Today, as we come together once again in this great city, we raise our voices in unison to say to President Bush, to Vice President Cheney, to other members of the Bush Administration (past and present), to a majority of Congress, including Utah’s entire congressional delegation, and to much of the mainstream media: “You have failed us miserably and we won’t take it any more.”

“While we had every reason to expect far more of you, you have been pompous, greedy, cruel, and incompetent as you have led this great nation to a moral, military, and national security abyss.”

“You have breached trust with the American people in the most egregious ways. You have utterly failed in the performance of your jobs. You have undermined our Constitution, permitted the violation of the most fundamental treaty obligations, and betrayed the rule of law.”

“You have engaged in, or permitted, heinous human rights abuses of the sort never before countenanced in our nation’s history as a matter of official policy. You have sent American men and women to kill and be killed on the basis of lies, on the basis of shifting justifications, without competent leadership, and without even a coherent plan for this monumental blunder.”

..

Source:
http://www.nationalexpositor.com/print/665.html

A most superb, precise and very accurate description of current US situ...

There is hope...

 

[BSD]

A most superb, precise and very accurate description of current US situ...

There is hope...

Seconded !

 

[dcraig1]

Slightly OT, but sometimes I am amazed the ignorance of the lunatics running the United States. How could anybody appointed to the position of White House press secretary not know of the Cuban Missile Crisis ?

"This White House spin doctor doesn't know the Bay of Pigs from a pork chop ...."

White House Dana's Day of Digs crisis - World - smh.com.au

 

[FXSCALPER2]

God save us!

 

[zambuck]

Slightly OT, but sometimes I am amazed the ignorance of the lunatics running the United States. How could anybody appointed to the position of White House press secretary not know of the Cuban Missile Crisis ?

"This White House spin doctor doesn't know the Bay of Pigs from a pork chop ...."

White House Dana's Day of Digs crisis - World - smh.com.au

.....Last line of the article sums up the whole house set up.....

...Quote....."She reportedly impressed some reporters, however, by knowing where Iraq was"......end quote...

 

[zambuck]

...and there is more......

BBC NEWS | Business | Phone confusion after Bush error

 

[Atilla]

Slightly OT, but sometimes I am amazed the ignorance of the lunatics running the United States. How could anybody appointed to the position of White House press secretary not know of the Cuban Missile Crisis ?

"This White House spin doctor doesn't know the Bay of Pigs from a pork chop ...."

White House Dana's Day of Digs crisis - World - smh.com.au

Like to know what were the tasks and interviews she had to go through to get that post. Was it based on merit or who you know and you do...

Probably the daughter of a Bush fund raiser or giver.

Democracy is great by the dollar... :cheesy:

 

[forex999]

Blame America???
Well I hate the bl***y Yanks, I hate Bush! I cant stand the americans, but...................
my hats off to them for taking up the Islamic terrorist,

Have a read the following what the Quran says!! - Make up your own judgement!

Read the following lines from QURAN:

ISLAM orders Muslims to:-

• Kill the non-muslims wherever they find them (2:191),
• Murder them and treat them harshly (9:123),
• Slay them (9:5),
• Fight with them (8:65),
• And smite their heads (47:4),
• Do not befriend them (3:28),
• Strive against them with great endeavor (25:52),
• Be stern with them because they belong to hell (66:9)
• Strike off their heads; then after making a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives” for ransom (47:4).
• As for the Christians and the Jews, the order is to subdue them and impose on them a penalty tax, after humiliating them (9:29) and if they resist, kill them.
• Orders the Muslims to fight them until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193),
• Slay or crucify or cut the hands and the feet of the non-muslims and to expel them from the land with disgrace.

Every Muslim needs to think whether he wishes to be a true human being or a true Muslim, because you cannot be both at the same time.

Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated.

 

[forex999]

By the way If every Muslim thinks that the above is a lie, then prove it!
These are the instructions from your holy book
YES or NO!

over the weekend India witnessed nearly 30 bombings in just 2 days!!
These Islamic Terrorist are striking at will.

The stupid politicians will not do anything because of the vote bank politics

prove me wrong with te above statement, and I will convert to Islam!!!!

 

[Atilla]

Blame America???
Well I hate the bl***y Yanks, This is strong isn't it. You hate the yanks. You mean 350m people? Why? I hate Bush! He is a figure head stupid enough to be manipulated imo. I certainly don't like the White House administration and nor do most Americans these days but you sound un hinged. I cant stand the americans Sit down and take some deep breaths dude you need to calm down. , but...................
my hats off to them for taking up the Islamic terrorist, The two words don't go together but seems you have filled the ranks of the haters already and lost your soul...

Have a read the following what the Quran says!! - Make up your own judgement!

Read the following lines from QURAN: Which version of the Quran or where are you quoting these from???

Blue lines are from this web site (IslamiCity.com - Islam & The Global Muslim eCommunity) I merely looked up the verses as I could not believe those lines.

Purple ones are my sort of interpretation...

Red lines are some of my responses to your text.

ISLAM orders Muslims to:- No it doesn't!!! It guides... Your emphasise is completely wrong...

• Kill the non-muslims wherever they find them (2:191),
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. My interpretation is saying it is better to live a free man than a slave. Not to kill non-muslims where ever they are found...

• Murder them and treat them harshly (9:123),
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
9:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him. Telling one not to fear anything, be firm and fear God

• Slay them (9:5),
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. This is in time of war. You are taking couple of words well out of context...

• Fight with them (8:65),
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
8:65 O Messenger. rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding. Tells people to stand together and be strong. Work as a team and be patient and persevering in struggle. Sort of trade union type solidarity against oppression.

• And smite their heads (47:4),
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost. This is in a fight and bear in mind they had swords back then. It also says subdue them and tie them up not kill them.

• Do not befriend them (3:28),
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
3:28 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. Back in the old days people were very tribal I guess. It says stick to your community. See this pretty much everywhere. Does sound politically incorrect in our small world of today but I guess things were different. This is the same as these schools like Catholic Jewish or Muslim schools that segregate even children...

• Strive against them with great endeavor (25:52),
English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)
25:52 Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an). Sort of don't be tempted by unbelievers I guess. Strive is work I reckon. I might be misinterpreting...

• Be stern with them because they belong to hell (66:9)
66:9 O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed). Don't copy them but work against them as their path is wrong I guess. That is if someone is an alcholic don't become one your self.

• Strike off their heads; then after making a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives” for ransom (47:4).
47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost. This is in time of war again same as above.

• As for the Christians and the Jews, the order is to subdue them and impose on them a penalty tax, after humiliating them (9:29) and if they resist, kill them.
9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. No reference to Jews or Christians here. This is what one would call propaganda perverting the word of the Quran.

• Orders the Muslims to fight them until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193),

2:193 And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. You really twisted in your interpretation of the Quran. Where have you got all these words of hate from. I guess this is what they feed the terrorist to blacken their hearts. I sincerely hope it does not colour your judgement.

• Slay or crucify or cut the hands and the feet of the non-muslims and to expel them from the land with disgrace. Where does this rubbish come from? You are shovelling the fodder of the cranks.

Every Muslim needs to think whether he wishes to be a true human being or a true Muslim, because you cannot be both at the same time. This is crass. You are placing your self in place of God and judging that a true muslim can not be a human being??? Are you aware of what you are exactly saying here. Hitler comes to mind as to what he thought was a fine specimen of a human being.

Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Now you really have gone loopy.

My friend you are spilling out hate to the Americans and Muslims. I share your outrage at the explosions in India and Istanbul recently but terrorists know no bounds of faith or decency. They are consumed with hate and loathing.

Their little minds have been brain washed.

They have less purpose in life than a mosquito and yet they think they are carrying out the instructions of God. These people are the same irrespective of race colour or creed.

Don't let these events and lies blacken your heart and cause you to lose faith in the goodness of humanity... :clover:

 

[wskanaan]

My friend you are spilling out hate to the Americans and Muslims. I share your outrage at the explosions in India and Istanbul recently but terrorists know no bounds of faith or decency. They are consumed with hate and loathing.

Their little minds have been brain washed.

They have less purpose in life than a mosquito and yet they think they are carrying out the instructions of God. These people are the same irrespective of race colour or creed.

Don't let these events and lies blacken your heart and cause you to lose faith in the goodness of humanity... :clover:

Thank you for the explanation... you saved me the time and effort.

As for the idea that Islam orders Muslims to kill others just for being what they are... that's just a simple and blatant lie.

I will not go into verses and explanations.... there is plenty online for you to find. However, the idea is that people are allowed to defend themselves. It is just a matter of perspective.

anyway... one disgusting quote I can give you is that by Rumsfeld before the attack on Afghanistan. He was asked about the thousands of civilians that would die because of the attack on the country and his response was something like: "Well... 6000 (even though the number was not confirmed at the time) deaths in the world trade center were a lot".... nothing else... eye for and eye. You kill some of ours we kill many of yours... simple as that. Blame can go around the table.... we only see the other side.

As for the Quranic verses... you need to read two, three or even more before the verse you use. Many of the verses are situational and many relate to events at the time they were sent. So just taking them as they are only leads to misinterpreting them. In addition... there are thousands of verses in the Quran... why concentrate on a few verses and ignore the many others that say things like:

"He who kill one soul it is as if he killed all people"

"Allah has disallowed killing a soul without just reason" (eg. in cases of murder)

and others.

Do make the effort to read the Quran with the intention of understanding... not just looking for something that looks wrong.

 

[dick_dastardly]

Many of the verses are situational and many relate to events at the time they were sent. So just taking them as they are only leads to misinterpreting them.

Hi wskanaan

So are you saying that the Quran ( or at least parts of it ) are out of date then ?

Sort of obsolete in this day and age if you see what I'm saying ?

dd

 

[Atilla]

Hi wskanaan

So are you saying that the Quran ( or at least parts of it ) are out of date then ?

Sort of obsolete in this day and age if you see what I'm saying ?

dd

Do make the effort to read the Quran with the intention of understanding... not just looking for something that looks wrong. wskanaan.


He who seeks shall find !!!


Stir it up why don't you DD??? Put people against each other and glow in your good work...

 

[gamma]

.

one disgusting quote I can give you is that by Rumsfeld before the attack on Afghanistan. He was asked about the thousands of civilians that would die because of the attack on the country and his response was something like: "Well... 6000 (even though the number was not confirmed at the time) deaths in the world trade center were a lot".... nothing else... eye for and eye. You kill some of ours we kill many of yours... simple as that. Blame can go around the table.... we only see the other side

.

Is that a quote from him or from you?
If it is from him can you post the original, or is it just a quote from some Mullah and now it becomes a fact amongst the muslim population.

 

[forex999]

Thank you for the explanation... you saved me the time and effort.

As for the idea that Islam orders Muslims to kill others just for being what they are... that's just a simple and blatant lie.

I will not go into verses and explanations.... there is plenty online for you to find. However, the idea is that people are allowed to defend themselves. It is just a matter of perspective.

anyway... one disgusting quote I can give you is that by Rumsfeld before the attack on Afghanistan. He was asked about the thousands of civilians that would die because of the attack on the country and his response was something like: "Well... 6000 (even though the number was not confirmed at the time) deaths in the world trade center were a lot".... nothing else... eye for and eye. You kill some of ours we kill many of yours... simple as that. Blame can go around the table.... we only see the other side.

As for the Quranic verses... you need to read two, three or even more before the verse you use. Many of the verses are situational and many relate to events at the time they were sent. So just taking them as they are only leads to misinterpreting them. In addition... there are thousands of verses in the Quran... why concentrate on a few verses and ignore the many others that say things like:

"He who kill one soul it is as if he killed all people"

"Allah has disallowed killing a soul without just reason" (eg. in cases of murder)

and others.

Do make the effort to read the Quran with the intention of understanding... not just looking for something that looks wrong.

Ok, tell me one thing. The spread of Islam has mainly been due to the use of sword!
YES? or No?

 

[Atilla]

Ok, tell me one thing. The spread of Islam has mainly been due to the use of sword!
YES? or No?

NO!


by TAXATION...


If you were not muslim and you lived in muslim lands you were not obliged to convert. But if you didn't you paid tax for protection.

Your children subsequently would not fight in wars and were not obliged to join the army.

If you converted you paid less tax.

You are on a mission to make a point. Your heart and mind is closed.

You haven't even answered any of my questions?

Where did you get all that rubbish from and what kind of rubbish are you shovelling?

You are carrying out the work of the fundamentals mate but you don't know it.

The next nuclear war is probably likely to be between India and Pakistan and you are fast on your way there...

 

[wskanaan]

Hi wskanaan

So are you saying that the Quran ( or at least parts of it ) are out of date then ?

Sort of obsolete in this day and age if you see what I'm saying ?

dd

No. The Quranic verses lie within three categories:

1. Verses that tell of previous events (before Islam or during the first years of Islam)
2. Verses that describe God
3. Verses that tell us rules we should follow (These do not change with time)

Some verses applied to the times. For example; alcohol was not forbidden at once. It was forbidden gradually. The muslims were first told not to pray while drunk. Then it was eventually forbidden in all forms. The verse that says "do not approach prayer while drunk" is still in the Quran but it does not apply any more.

Anyway, I am not the authority on the subject of all verses and their effects and I think the details supplied by Atilla were enough to show what each verse was meant for.

 

[Splitlink]

Ok, tell me one thing. The spread of Islam has mainly been due to the use of sword!
YES? or No?

Tell me of one major religious or non-religious belief that was not backed up by the sword?

Even today, the spread of democracy is backed up by wars or dirty tricks. Without doubt, democracy can go nowhere without being backed up by force, although we don't like to believe it.

Look at the flying of prisoners to Turkey and Pakistan for a bit of physical persuasion to loosen their tongues while the holier than now Americans and British go to church and drink tea with the vicar on Sunday.

 

[wskanaan]

Ok, tell me one thing. The spread of Islam has mainly been due to the use of sword!
YES? or No?

The use of the "sword" happens only in two situations - defense and where Muslims are not allowed to spread the word of islam (i know someone will comment on this).

Where muslims were allowed to spread the word of islam there was no need for the "sword". In fact, many areas accepted Islam only through interaction with Muslim merchants. No "swords" used

But let's look at the use of the swords in Islam as compared to the crusades:
In islam warriors were not allowed to kill anyone that was not a fighter (old men, women, children, etc.). They were not even allowed to cut a tree. The wars usually led to very few fatalities.
A description I recall for the crusades in Bagdad (old ones... not Bush's crusades) was that there was so much blood it flowed in rivers. Anyone and everyone was killed. This was in the name of religion.

 

[wskanaan]

.


.

Is that a quote from him or from you?
If it is from him can you post the original, or is it just a quote from some Mullah and now it becomes a fact amongst the muslim population.

Actually... it is a quote I saw live on TV. I do not have a reference to it... so you will have to take my word for it. However, I will try to find it.