Should vendors only be allowed to post a 'vendor section'

[The Leopard]

Lep

How can I name one without personal experience? Aside from some professional mentoring in the early days (free since a friend) I suppose the biggest influence since then has been Marc Rivalland via his Swing Trading book some ten or more years ago. I see he has moved on from the book and "sells" seminars and if those are as measured as his book about the claims for his method then I think he'd fit the bill.

I think it defies all logic to suppose that trading is the only profession in the world that cannot be taught, both in technique and mental attitude, and that there are not excellent teachers whose primary skill lies in the teaching rather than the doing.

I don't think we're really disagreeing, actually.

Sure, there is much that can be usefully taught (although I think that there is more in the learning than the teaching). And excellent teachers, no doubt - we're all familiar with the fact that Tiger Woods was probably coached by someone who couldn't win major tournaments etc.

But that is the point. There might be some who can teach but can't trade. Let's say we accept this to be true, can you name any who tell people this honestly? Every single one that I am aware of is a great trader, makes oodles at it, and doesn't need to teach. They do it because <insert frankly insulting nonsense of choice here>.

I am sure there are people out there who can teach and do teach. But I am not aware of any that advertise, use forums etc that have any evidence to support their claims. We know that some people can and have done it - Richard Dennis for example. But he's not the kind of person we're talking about.

All I asked for is one case of this nature where claims have been verified, or there is at least strong evidence for them. No-one has produced one. That's not the same as saying that I don't think anything useful about trading can be taught.

 

[The Leopard]

Scose for paid mod! You guys know you want it

my first act would be to perma-wipe prolly 70+% of all threads created in the last two years.

Second act would be to petition the creation of a hyper-lulz bin where the luziest threads can be moved for your viewing ease and to ensure nobody misses any lulz. Think analists and slaggaboopydop in one place

Scose for Mod? F uck that sh1t.

SCOZE FOR PREZ! That's more like it.

Scose should be the new Steve.

 

[barjon]

I don't think we're really disagreeing, actually.

Sure, there is much that can be usefully taught (although I think that there is more in the learning than the teaching). And excellent teachers, no doubt - we're all familiar with the fact that Tiger Woods was probably coached by someone who couldn't win major tournaments etc.

But that is the point. There might be some who can teach but can't trade. Let's say we accept this to be true, can you name any who tell people this honestly? Every single one that I am aware of is a great trader, makes oodles at it, and doesn't need to teach. They do it because <insert frankly insulting nonsense of choice here>.

I am sure there are people out there who can teach and do teach. But I am not aware of any that advertise, use forums etc that have any evidence to support their claims. We know that some people can and have done it - Richard Dennis for example. But he's not the kind of person we're talking about.

All I asked for is one case of this nature where claims have been verified, or there is at least strong evidence for them. No-one has produced one. That's not the same as saying that I don't think anything useful about trading can be taught.

Well, it's certainly true that any marketing will tend to put the best gloss on things - sometimes outrageously - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the product is not worth a candle.

Squirt some Lynx under your arm and you'll have the girls falling all over you. They won't, of course, but the product still does its job as a deodorant. People generally have the good sense to see advertising for what it is, but it seems that when there are £ signs flashing before their eyes good sense often flies out of the window.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Squirt some Lynx under your arm and you'll have the girls falling all over you. They won't, of course, but the product still does its job as a deodorant. People generally have the good sense to see advertising for what it is, but it seems that when there are £ signs flashing before their eyes good sense often flies out of the window.

Difference being lynx costs a quid and the ads are meant to be humorous.

 

[DionysusToast]

hey nothing wrong with the belgians, i know a few ...well the western belgian flanders lot are ok, the east are a bit odd

I smell bias...

 

[barjon]

Difference being lynx costs a quid and the ads are meant to be humorous.

aye, who was that London Estate Agent who used to go the other way. "this is a crappy house, almost falling to bits with a kitchen like the black hole of Calcutta" sort of things. P'raps the trading vendor guys should try something like that - all too often it mightn't be a joke though

 

[The Leopard]

Well, it's certainly true that any marketing will tend to put the best gloss on things - sometimes outrageously - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the product is not worth a candle.

Squirt some Lynx under your arm and you'll have the girls falling all over you. They won't, of course, but the product still does its job as a deodorant. People generally have the good sense to see advertising for what it is, but it seems that when there are £ signs flashing before their eyes good sense often flies out of the window.

I think Scose dealt with the Lynx comparison , although I do take your point.

But I simply disagree with this argument that they're putting a positive spin on things (which is still lying, in any case). We're talking about serious lies of a very material nature - for example claiming that they make a living from trading when they don't, falsely inflating the number of pips lol they make and so on. Or at least very important claims that never seem to be verified or even reasonably supported by credible evidence.

A product may well be wonderful, but morally and legally if you lie to sell it that is wrong.

This assumes that the product is wonderful in the first place of course .

 

[DionysusToast]

It is fraud, of course it is.

No-one appears to give a crap though. There is no regulation.

 

[barjon]

I think Scose dealt with the Lynx comparison , although I do take your point.

But I simply disagree with this argument that they're putting a positive spin on things (which is still lying, in any case). We're talking about serious lies of a very material nature - for example claiming that they make a living from trading when they don't, falsely inflating the number of pips lol they make and so on. Or at least very important claims that never seem to be verified or even reasonably supported by credible evidence.

A product may well be wonderful, but morally and legally if you lie to sell it that is wrong.

This assumes that the product is wonderful in the first place of course .

I don't disagree at all with any of that, just with the proposition that they are all like that.

 

[pboyles]

People generally have the good sense to see advertising for what it is, but it seems that when there are £ signs flashing before their eyes good sense often flies out of the window.

People assume that there are laws in place to protect them from dishonest advertising. They look at adverts and think to themselves that it couldn't all be lies because the authorities would have shut them down for doing such a thing.

Plenty of people thought that about Senen Pousa and look where they ended up.

 

[212]

Aftyer seeing this add I Bought me a set of bobby dazzler Oakleys and sprayed mees in Lynx then off I strolled down to the local discotechie to get me some...come home and had a w@nk

Specsavers 'The Specs Effect' Advert (Lynx/Axe parody) - YouTube

 

[pboyles]

I don't disagree at all with any of that, just with the proposition that they are all like that.

The thing about that is that I can probably name 50 that are like that. How many can you name that are not? Do you see why it's not entirely unfair to tar them all with the same brush?

 

[Lord Flasheart]

The thing about that is that I can probably name 50 that are like that. How many can you name that are not? Do you see why it's not entirely unfair to tar them all with the same brush?

In total agreement with that statement. History has told us that they dont exist so we have to assume guilt until they show us otherwise

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Teh Scose is planning on multi-nic vendoring one day so tone it down please guys.

 

[DionysusToast]

People assume that there are laws in place to protect them from dishonest advertising. They look at adverts and think to themselves that it couldn't all be lies because the authorities would have shut them down for doing such a thing.

Plenty of people thought that about Senen Pousa and look where they ended up.

There are laws - but they are not enforced...

You ever seen "Mens Fitness" magazine? You see all the exercise routines in there? They ever mention that the male models use T-3, ephedrine, clenbuterol & diuretics to get to 'photo shoot' competition? Nope.

Same for those muscle mags, they give out routines & sell protein, creatine, glutamine etc, etc, etc - they fail to mention that crap does nothing but make you f@rt and that to get big you need to take steroids, insulin & growth hormone.

In trading, you have TA...

Wrinkle cream, pen1s enlargement, cellulite removal, baldness cures etc. etc. etc. - all huge industries full of snake oil.

Plenty of industries are flying under the radar like this. I think it comes down to proving that the ads are fraudulent or maybe it's just that punters are too embarassed to report issues. Maybe punters just can't be bothered to report issues.

 

[the hare]

Well, it's certainly true that any marketing will tend to put the best gloss on things - sometimes outrageously - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the product is not worth a candle.

Lets cut to the chase and use a real life example. Mr Mike Baghdaddy.

I think its fair to say that his marketing made some outrageous claims.
Are you seriously trying to argue that there was some worth in receiving trading education from an individual who didn't trade, and who had a history of bankruptcy proceedings due to margin calls ?

 

[pboyles]

There are laws - but they are not enforced...

You ever seen "Mens Fitness" magazine? You see all the exercise routines in there? They ever mention that the male models use T-3, ephedrine, clenbuterol & diuretics to get to 'photo shoot' competition? Nope.

Same for those muscle mags, they give out routines & sell protein, creatine, glutamine etc, etc, etc - they fail to mention that crap does nothing but make you f@rt and that to get big you need to take steroids, insulin & growth hormone.

In trading, you have TA...

Wrinkle cream, pen1s enlargement, cellulite removal, baldness cures etc. etc. etc. - all huge industries full of snake oil.

Plenty of industries are flying under the radar like this. I think it comes down to proving that the ads are fraudulent or maybe it's just that punters are too embarassed to report issues. Maybe punters just can't be bothered to report issues.

Yes but very few people remortgage their house to buy wrinkle cream. Look at the losses sustained to trading scams, 50k to Baghdady, 4 people admitting losing over 100k to Pousa, the list goes on.

 

[DionysusToast]

Yes but very few people remortgage their house to buy wrinkle cream. Look at the losses sustained to trading scams, 50k to Baghdady, 4 people admitting losing over 100k to Pousa, the list goes on.

I agree - I am just pointing out that blatantly false advertising exist in many 'fringe' industries.

 

[DionysusToast]

Look guys - I'm turning the PMs off if you don't stop messaging me about pen1s enlargement - I don't know, OK???

 

[BeginnerJoe]

receiving trading education from an individual who didn't trade, and who had a history of bankruptcy proceedings due to margin calls ?

If he didn't trade, then how did he get margin calls ? I reckon someone who goes down from margin calls is perfectly suited to teach others how not to get in that situation.