is a vendor clampdown in order

[pboyles]

Why cant all links for a vendor be banned until they have been approved by T2W? In other words they would have to ask for permission in advance and be subject to some sort of approval process to keep the worst offenders out. Therefore a vendor linking to his secret Nazi box would fail the test whilst a properly regulated broker would pass (just as an example).

There may be a bit of work in this but there's also work in constantly deleting the sort of rubbish we see on a daily basis.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Just out of interest, is this all vendors here or is the point to weed something specific out?

For example, we have an Interactive Brokers thread on here and a representative from Interactive Brokers comes along and answers questions.

Would anyone be upset if NinjaTrader, Tradestation, Velocity, Infinity, Mirus, The CME etc. had people posting here? What about the likes of Sam Sieden, Al Brookes, John Carter - if they were here engaging in trading debates?

this is about all vendors.

mainstream vendors are allowed to post in support of and answer questions of their users, in the main they are supposed to have their own thread and in the main they stick to that where possible. they are not allowed to link to or advertise their services. and they are pulled up when they stray. so if anyone of your software users asks you a question about it, by the site guidelines you are then allowed to answer questions and guide the member, something like that anyway.

but the issue arises that as you've just launched you have a very small user base at the start, hence the need for you to post in every thread going advertising the fact you have software for sale, you've even posted in this thread of its availability!!! say its for free! and try word it as such, to make it look that way. yes i saw what you did there but the fact of the matter is it's in fact on a 7 day trial, which contravenes the site guidelines to promote your software. i find it disgusting that part of the post still stands, even though it's reported!

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Why cant all links for a vendor be banned until they have been approved by T2W? In other words they would have to ask for permission in advance and be subject to some sort of approval process to keep the worst offenders out. Therefore a vendor linking to his secret Nazi box would fail the test whilst a properly regulated broker would pass (just as an example).

There may be a bit of work in this but there's also work in constantly deleting the sort of rubbish we see on a daily basis.

i was getting to that bit at a later date on the homepage linking front

at the moment homepage linking is a free for all for any old tom dick or spammer, moderators can't police it. so there has to be a way of getting that in to be accountable and word it in a non onerous way so they take the medicine :cheesy:

 

[tar]

nobody should be allowed to link to his own webpage , not through the signature , vendor badge or the profile homepage , is that so difficult ? linking = advertising , i really don't get it , whats this all about , is it about Mr charts ?!

 

[Lightning McQueen]

nobody should be allowed to link to his own webpage , not through the signature , vendor badge or the profile homepage , is that so difficult ? linking = advertising , i really don't get it , whats this all about , is it about Mr charts ?!

it's about vendors, all of them. from the biggest, down to the spammy tiddlers.

why did you mention mr charts? any reason specifically? just curious.

 

[MajorDutch]

nobody should be allowed to link to his own webpage , not through the signature , vendor badge or the profile homepage , is that so difficult ? linking = advertising , i really don't get it , whats this all about , is it about Mr charts ?!

it's about vested interest mainly. some vendors are very very good at mind manipulation and have been very careful to establish long term 'credibility'. This is what we should expect of them as this is how they pay their mortgage/rent bills. The facts are if you are a 'successful' trader, allegedly profitable for 5+ years you have NO PLACE teaching your methods for some shi77y amount of chump change per month. It is actually very easy to make money out of the human character playing on the emotions of fear, greed & vanity if you can combine all 3 of these you have a powerful driver. There was a tard vendor on here the other day having a pop at people, I signed up to his website to check out how ridiculous his claims were, now he has my email address I am getting spammed relentlessly.

If you think about the reality of the situation it is clear all is not what it seems for of these tarders. A professional successful trader will normally rise early go through his morning routine and then focus on the job in hand. The actions of spending time charging people chump change whilst being a professional trader dont go hand in hand.

 

[tar]

it's about vendors, all of them. from the biggest, down to the spammy tiddlers.

why did you mention mr charts? any reason specifically? just curious.

I wasnt talking about your topic , i meant T2W policies with vendors ...

 

[Lightning McQueen]

I wasnt talking about your topic , i meant T2W policies with vendors ...

that is my topic in essence, t2w site policies are starting to get skewed compared to the site guidelines, therefore allowing vendors more of a free run to advertise themselves. or do i misunderstand you? or you me?

 

[tar]

that is my topic in essence, t2w site policies are starting to get skewed compared to the site guidelines, therefore allowing vendors more of a free run to advertise themselves. or do i misunderstand you? or you me?

u misunderstood me , that's my point , i don't get it why they are allowing them to do so ...

 

[DionysusToast]

but the issue arises that as you've just launched you have a very small user base at the start, hence the need for you to post in every thread going advertising the fact you have software for sale,

That's total nonsense. Go look through my posts, I just post my opinions on trading just like everyone else.

you've even posted in this thread of its availability!!! say its for free! and try word it as such, to make it look that way. yes i saw what you did there but the fact of the matter is it's in fact on a 7 day trial, which contravenes the site guidelines to promote your software. i find it disgusting that part of the post still stands, even though it's reported!

To be honest, I thought it was quite amusing to post that in here.

Out of interest - why did you not take this on when you were a mod? Plenty of scammers had threads running on your watch.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

That's total nonsense. Go look through my posts, I just post my opinions on trading just like everyone else.



To be honest, I thought it was quite amusing to post that in here.

Out of interest - why did you not take this on when you were a mod? Plenty of scammers had threads running on your watch.

i guessed you were having fun with it

well to be fair i did try to get the sig linking curtailed, that was, and i'm guessing, still is number 1'ish issue regarding mod time spent modding. my attempts failed. that's not my fault, nobodies fault really. there just wasn't any agreement.

i caught and run out of town my fair share of the blighters i can tell you. i first started modding 4 years ago, linkable vendor badges weren't about then, let alone ones that light up when the vendor sets up shop through it. add to the fact vendors modus operandi changes over time, i guess they're now more savvy on how to draw them in, for they now have the site doing the work for them, with very little ongoing effort on their part, due to admin adding in their little bits here and there. before you know it there's a conflict between the site itself and the guidelines.

it's just something i've noticed and bought to admins attention via feedback. i probably wouldn't have noticed had it not been for a vendor or 2 throw a wobbler and another go full commercial.

 

[DionysusToast]

i guessed you were having fun with it

Phew... I am glad I still maintain the status of 'almost evil' vendor as opposed to totally evil...

well to be fair i did try to get the sig linking curtailed, that was, and i'm guessing, still is number 1'ish issue regarding mod time spent modding. my attempts failed. that's not my fault, nobodies fault really. there just wasn't any agreement.

i caught and run out of town my fair share of the blighters i can tell you. i first started modding 4 years ago, linkable vendor badges weren't about then, let alone ones that light up when the vendor sets up shop through it. add to the fact vendors modus operandi changes over time, i guess they're now more savvy on how to draw them in, for they now have the site doing the work for them, with very little ongoing effort on their part, due to admin adding in their little bits here and there. before you know it there's a conflict between the site itself and the guidelines.

it's just something i've noticed and bought to admins attention via feedback. i probably wouldn't have noticed had it not been for a vendor or 2 throw a wobbler and another go full commercial.

It think restrictions are fair to be honest. More restrictions wouldn't hurt either.

There's a lot of shilling going on which may not be caught under the site guidelines.
That's the stuff that's always annoyed me - somebody coming along and touting some genius they know that's making 15 points a day on the ES. It does appeal to the greed in people and that is why it makes such a good con.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Phew... I am glad I still maintain the status of 'almost evil' vendor as opposed to totally evil...



It think restrictions are fair to be honest. More restrictions wouldn't hurt either.

There's a lot of shilling going on which may not be caught under the site guidelines.
That's the stuff that's always annoyed me - somebody coming along and touting some genius they know that's making 15 points a day on the ES. It does appeal to the greed in people and that is why it makes such a good con.

yes, agreed shills are the lowest of the low, ah real easy to spot and deal with on the ones that are not clever about it. the clever ones would be difficult to bust, it's not always clear cut, though you know somethings going on.

the guidelines are reasonably clear cut here, see section 4 clause 3. and 4.4 Exceptions b. any link to the vendor would result in the mods taking action. i once banned a whole bunch of sb clowns bigging up their own service as happy punters, i lolled at that one.

 

[DionysusToast]

Thing is - the shilling is often not a breach, right?

It can be obvious to most but not be in breach of the guidelines. It's an interesting point about the smart ones and that's why I think fixed rules wouldn't be the answer. Unless you have a rule that says "if it walks like a shill and talks like a shill"....

BTW - Arabian offered to be a paid shill a while back but he's not answering my calls right now for some reason...

BBTW - I can't believe my avatar lasted this long - that was a jolly jape too...

 

[Lightning McQueen]

yes, the guidelines cover shills, though not specifically stated, it's covered.

 

[barjon]

It's an interesting debate and one where my personal view is that there is no single rule solution.

At one end of the scale, many vendors contribute a lot of good stuff about trading that I, as a member, find interesting even though I know they are probably making that contribution in the interests of promoting their product. The clearest example that springs to mind is Phil Newton's "15 minute break out strategy" thread and associated video. He goes into great detail about a trading method but, if you were being draconian, you would say it's just a promo since the video "advertises" his site. So what? It was of trading interest to me and I shouldn't like to be denied seeing such contributions.

At the other end of the scale there are those who offer little of trading interest and merely try to hook people to their site/product by overt or devious means. As a member, I have no interest in those and want them gone as soon as possible so that I'm not bothered by them.

It seems to me that it's a question of judgement - I'd like to see the first group there whether or not they have technically broken T2W guidelines. And I'd like to see the second group gone whether or not they are technically within T2W guidelines.

From a mod perspective that's how I try to operate, but you'll have to accept that it means that you're relying on my and the other mods judgement. If you want it different then so be it.

jon

 

[Lightning McQueen]

jon, as you have been the longest serving mod and were always the captain of the ship in my eyes, and you always have my respect.

but those days of old are fast fading where the odd youtube vid were tolerated. in exchange for an interesting thread from a vendor. now they are cute about it and the vid is planted smack bang in the middle of their site, with all the promo hooks and links all around it. the vendor badge is making them lazy as they've realised they just have to post a few words to get the vendor badge into view, though unless my browser is playing up i do believe the xmas lights have been turned off?

posts really do mean click throughs for them, i've been watching it and theres a jolly nice vendor who publishes his member count. the more he posts his hook rate climbs, he stops posting his hook rate stops or declines.

at the end of the day, as long as the site setup itself doesn't undermine your good efforts, then i think all will be well.

 

[wackypete2]

Interestingly, of all the vendors on t2w (and i don't mean the 1 and done spammers) only 1 has felt the need to defend himself on this thread.

Peter

 

[barjon]

jon, as you have been the longest serving mod and were always the captain of the ship in my eyes, and you always have my respect.

but those days of old are fast fading where the odd youtube vid were tolerated. in exchange for an interesting thread from a vendor. now they are cute about it and the vid is planted smack bang in the middle of their site, with all the promo hooks and links all around it. the vendor badge is making them lazy as they've realised they just have to post a few words to get the vendor badge into view, though unless my browser is playing up i do believe the xmas lights have been turned off?

posts really do mean click throughs for them, i've been watching it and theres a jolly nice vendor who publishes his member count. the more he posts his hook rate climbs, he stops posting his hook rate stops or declines.

at the end of the day, as long as the site setup itself doesn't undermine your good efforts, then i think all will be well.

LM

Dunno about captain, Don. More like Dr Watson to your Sherlock

Aye, you have a solid point about the vendor badge highlights. I thought the idea was about advising members where people may be coming from, not giving those people another advertising chance. I'm also with you on the "visit my homepage" bit, either on the drop down menu on the hover over nicks or in profiles - I've always thought that counter-productive in trying to keep advertisers at bay.

My main point, though, was that - as a member - I don't really care whether people have something to sell or not as long as what they post is interesting to me from a trading perspective. By trading I mean directly about trading, not about whatever fancy product they are offering.

jon

 

[barjon]

It's an interesting debate and one where my personal view is that there is no single rule solution.

At one end of the scale, many vendors contribute a lot of good stuff about trading that I, as a member, find interesting even though I know they are probably making that contribution in the interests of promoting their product. The clearest example that springs to mind is Phil Newton's "15 minute break out strategy" thread and associated video. He goes into great detail about a trading method but, if you were being draconian, you would say it's just a promo since the video "advertises" his site. So what? It was of trading interest to me and I shouldn't like to be denied seeing such contributions.

At the other end of the scale there are those who offer little of trading interest and merely try to hook people to their site/product by overt or devious means. As a member, I have no interest in those and want them gone as soon as possible so that I'm not bothered by them.

It seems to me that it's a question of judgement - I'd like to see the first group there whether or not they have technically broken T2W guidelines. And I'd like to see the second group gone whether or not they are technically within T2W guidelines.

From a mod perspective that's how I try to operate, but you'll have to accept that it means that you're relying on my and the other mods judgement. If you want it different then so be it.

jon

ps: I forgot to mention the question and answer threads. My own view is that there should be a separate forum for these which was kept out of the mainstream and which did not feature in "new posts". People interested in asking questions about vendor products would have to find their way to that forum (section) without any prompting. I'd almost go so far as to say that vendors could be free to start a thread in that forum (section) inviting questions.