A New Low?

[the hare]

Only the long standing members would know, some guy that joined last week wouldn't have a clue..

I'm not sure its quite so simple.

I think that its fair to say that over the years t2w has proactively attempted to create a brand that its membership trust. A side effect of that is that members tend to trust t2w, and they also percieve that t2w are endorsing certain vendors.

If you look at the t2w book for example, most of the contributors are vendors, and that also establishes a perception. I know its a sore point, so I'll say no more on that issue.

However, there are sites out there that have taken the completely opposite approach, and their message is basically this, "if you are dumb enough to do business with the vendors who advertise on our site, you will probably lose money". A great example is talkgold.com, a site dedicated to the promotion of illegal ponzi schemes and I'd wager, a site that's made significantly more money than t2w could ever dream of.

t2w tries to market itself as knowledgable, fair, impartial, trustworthy etc, and consequentially that sets certain expectations in its members. If they marketed themselves as complete untrustworthy rogues, people would have different expectations, and some guy who joined last week would be far better equipped to deal with reality.

If you wanted to adopt the brambles approach, then I think if you where 100% honest about how the industry worked, promoted trading as nothing more than a bit of a casio game or a bet on the horses, then it might just work.

 

[TheBramble]

I must look into that, I've been looking at other mediums for spreading the word. So what would you do with screenshots etc, upload to twitpic or something? As an example how would I raise awareness about a certain scammer, just post a tweet with the hash tag #bike maddaddy? Them add some text or a link to court cases?

The web-based twitter app now has an integrated photo upload facility. Just click on the camera icon in your tweet box. I've used Twicca on my mobile and that's just as easy.

Yes to the other suggestions you make. That's precisely what you could do. And also search for those using similar and related hashtags.

 

[TheBramble]

just post a tweet with the hash tag #bike maddaddy? Them add some text or a link to court cases?

Just had a quick look, there is nothing for that hashtag right now (the proper name). So, go get 'em cowboy...

#trade #trading #rip-off #scam #course #fx #forex #liar #bankrupt etc.

 

[wackypete2]

Incorrect.

I presume the concept of 'retirement' is not alien to you. Everyone with any disposable income is encouraged to put money into the financial markets as it's the only way to get a decent return back.

There is no choice about putting money into the markets.



Nope - not at all. The people got scammed. I hope it doesn't happen to you. It might because you don't actually know how these boiler rooms operate.

It's not all Vin Diesel you know.



Nope - the scammers are at fault. The fact is we are all pushed to putting our disposable income into the markets to safeguard our future. You cannot expect everyone to be as financially savvy as the people on this site.

For example, if your Grandmother got ripped off by a boiler room spinning her a load of lies, would you say it was her fault?

My dad once sat on the jury in a case where a bunch of 'builders' convinced an elderly gentleman that he needed a low wall around his house. The guy was 86 years old. They ended up taking him for $120k.

These are typical boiler room victims, I really do think you've put too much stock in the movie on the topic.

You are right on cue. You feel the need to belittle me when you get frustrated and can't support your argument. You are an advocate of the "it's not my fault" culture where we must always find someone else to blame for our problems.

Also, look up choice in the dictionary. Then explain to me how 99% of the population has no choice but to put money into the markets. You make it sound like everyone makes retirement decisions by gunpoint. They can choose to put their money under the pillow each night or leave their money in a gov't insured savings account. Might not be a good choice, however, it is a choice and a decision made.

I have never seen the movie.

Peter

 

[alphadude]

You are right on cue. You feel the need to belittle me when you get frustrated and can't support your argument. You are an advocate of the "it's not my fault" culture where we must always find someone else to blame for our problems.

Also, look up choice in the dictionary. Then explain to me how 99% of the population has no choice but to put money into the markets. You make it sound like everyone makes retirement decisions by gunpoint. They can choose to put their money under the pillow each night or leave their money in a gov't insured savings account. Might not be a good choice, however, it is a choice and a decision made.

I have never seen the movie.

Peter

lol; Bill Maher dispatches from the bubble explains it all.

"Typical Republican Voter" Captured and Quarantined by Bill Maher - YouTube

 

[timsk]

pboyles, the hare et al,
If you have an agenda against T2W (and, for what it's worth, this is my distinct impression) - then carry on with your campaign against the site. Obviously, if you wish to continue to do this as members, then you'll have to do so within T2W site guidelines. Because T2W is very liberal and, as I have made clear in a recent post addressed to the hare on another thread, we actively encourage constructive criticism, it's entirely possible to remain members and to prod and poke at every turn. (To put this in some kind of context, I'm a member of a forum for anglers where one of the Mods deleted the 'Joke of the Day' thread because, he said, "I got bored of moderating it and didn't find the jokes very funny." So, you lot should count yourselves lucky!) On the flip side, as Trader333 has made crystal clear, if you persist in transgressing the site guidelines, then the Mods will take appropriate action which may result in some sort of ban. Whatever happens, you can't complain that you haven't been warned!


Moving on: if, as you would like members to believe (and, for what it's worth, I seriously doubt) - your motives are purely altruistic to support and protect newbie members / traders who aren't sufficiently knowledgeable or experienced to spot the scams - then you'll heed 'The Bramble's' advice and direct your attacks elsewhere. T2W isn't responsible for the prey being ripped off by the unscrupulous predators. Sure, we have made mistakes in the past and may make more in the future: we're only human after all. But one thing is for sure, we do genuinely care about the best interests of our members. Speaking personally, if I thought otherwise, I would step down from my role as Content Manager immediately and have nothing more to do with the site. Period.

Now, back to you guys, and this is the real point of this post. If you genuinely want to help the victims of the scammers, you'll do a 360 in your attitude towards T2W and work with us rather than continually haranguing us and making us out to be the bad guys. As I hope both of you will acknowledge, I have personally issued invitations to you both via PM in this regard. To continue on your current path will lead members to reach the conclusion that, sadly, I'm starting to reach. Namely, that you don't care two hoots about newbies being ripped off by scammers; it's merely a convenient tool to bash T2W with to further your own personal agendas - whatever they may be. This is my worst fear and one which leads me to a sincere wish and a challenge to you and anyone who thinks the way you do: please, please prove me wrong!
Tim.

 

[the hare]

I'm a member of a forum for anglers where one of the Mods deleted the 'Joke of the Day' thread because, he said, "I got bored of moderating it and didn't find the jokes very funny."

That sounds a bit fishy to me...

 

[counter_violent]

That sounds a bit fishy to me...

ba-da-dum....... ba-da-dum- tsssh

 

[pboyles]

. To continue on your current path will lead members to reach the conclusion that, sadly, I'm starting to reach. Namely, that you don't care two hoots about newbies being ripped off by scammers; it's merely a convenient tool to bash T2W with to further your own personal agendas - whatever they may be.
Tim.

Tim

No offence but you're talking nonsense, I spent my own money buying documents from CH when I was trying to stop people falling victim to the Spiriton Media scam, I've spent countless hours dealing with half wits in the FSA and ASA trying to get them to take action against the various scumbag vendors that appear here. I even went on a radio show to raise awareness about boiler rooms.

What have you or anyone else at T2W ever done? Sat idly by saying "oh just give them a chance to prove themselves".

 

[tar]

What have you or anyone else at T2W ever done? Sat idly by saying "oh just give them a chance to prove themselves".

I think that's an exaggeration from your side ! if you want members to respect you maybe you should start respecting others as well , as a matter of fact i myself did file complaints to the fsa and nfa .

 

[counter_violent]

What have you or anyone else at T2W ever done? Sat idly by saying "oh just give them a chance to prove themselves".

If only you knew the half of it !

 

[pboyles]

I think that's an exaggeration from your side ! if you want members to respect you maybe you should start respecting others as well , as a matter of fact i myself did file complaints to the fsa and nfa .

I was referring to T2W staff and moderators.

 

[counter_violent]

Tim

No offence but you're talking nonsense, I spent my own money buying documents from CH when I was trying to stop people falling victim to the Spiriton Media scam, I've spent countless hours dealing with half wits in the FSA and ASA trying to get them to take action against the various scumbag vendors that appear here. I even went on a radio show to raise awareness about boiler rooms.

What have you or anyone else at T2W ever done? Sat idly by saying "oh just give them a chance to prove themselves".

Was it not Tim who penned this ?

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...tinguish-between-scams-reputable-vendors.html

I distinctly remember Tim asking for help from T2W members when he was compiling this and he made a great deal of effort to get you included.

 

[pboyles]

Was it not Tim who penned this ?

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...tinguish-between-scams-reputable-vendors.html

I distinctly remember Tim asking for help from T2W members when he was compiling this and he made a great deal of effort to get you included.

Forgive me for not being bothered to read that but I do recall offering to run checks on the US Courts database at my own expense, there being a small fee per search. I believe this was quoted somewhere in the T2W guidelines.

 

[timsk]

Hi pb,

No offence but you're talking nonsense . .

None taken - and good, I hope I am talking nonsense. The onus is on you to prove it and to work with T2W to help protect newbies rather than making out we're the cause of the problem. It would be a much better use of your time and far more beneficial for those who you seek to help and protect.

. . .What have you or anyone else at T2W ever done? Sat idly by saying "oh just give them a chance to prove themselves".

I don't like to blow my own trumpet but, as C_V has already linked to the FAQ in his post, I will add to his comment by saying that T2W has the single most comprehensive guide to be found anywhere on the net to help protect newbies from being ripped off. As I've said repeatedly over the years, if there are better resources out there - or more up to date ones - just tell me and I'll add them to the relevant Sticky or 'Useful Links' (post #3) of the FAQ.
Tim.

 

[DionysusToast]

You are right on cue. You feel the need to belittle me when you get frustrated and can't support your argument. You are an advocate of the "it's not my fault" culture where we must always find someone else to blame for our problems.

Also, look up choice in the dictionary. Then explain to me how 99% of the population has no choice but to put money into the markets. You make it sound like everyone makes retirement decisions by gunpoint. They can choose to put their money under the pillow each night or leave their money in a gov't insured savings account. Might not be a good choice, however, it is a choice and a decision made.

I have never seen the movie.

Peter

As a trader, one of the skills that we don't discuss much is empathy. Not to be confused with sympathy.

The fact is, that you consider yourself financially savvy. You then are unable to understand how people might not be financially savvy. You are unable to put your feet in the shoes of people like that.

So - you come out with crap like "they deserve to get ripped off". Which is nonsense.

The fact is that people are different and some people are vulnerable to scam artists. In your mind you think these people are falling for scams because they are greedy. You don't have the capacity to see it any other way.

I will presume you are not an expert in car repair. So, if you take your car for repair, you are at the mercy of the mechanic. If he tells you it's $100 or $1000 to fix a fault, you may take him at his word. You have no way to determine if he is being honest or not. He may replace a $1 washer, charge you $150 for it & you come away happy about how cheap it was to fix your car. The fact you got ripped off doesn't occur to you.

Now - you can most likely empathise with someone in this situation because of your lack of expertise in the field of vehicular mechanics. On the other hand because you think of yourself as an expert in financials, you cannot empathise with someone who is not savvy in that area.

In short - it is rare that someone DESERVES to get ripped off. It is not always their fault. It is simply a matter that we all have our vulnerabilities and blind spots. With some people their blind spot is a financial one.

 

[alphadude]

As a trader, one of the skills that we don't discuss much is empathy. Not to be confused with sympathy.

The fact is, that you consider yourself financially savvy. You then are unable to understand how people might not be financially savvy. You are unable to put your feet in the shoes of people like that.

So - you come out with crap like "they deserve to get ripped off". Which is nonsense.

The fact is that people are different and some people are vulnerable to scam artists. In your mind you think these people are falling for scams because they are greedy. You don't have the capacity to see it any other way.

I will presume you are not an expert in car repair. So, if you take your car for repair, you are at the mercy of the mechanic. If he tells you it's $100 or $1000 to fix a fault, you may take him at his word. You have no way to determine if he is being honest or not. He may replace a $1 washer, charge you $150 for it & you come away happy about how cheap it was to fix your car. The fact you got ripped off doesn't occur to you.

Now - you can most likely empathise with someone in this situation because of your lack of expertise in the field of vehicular mechanics. On the other hand because you think of yourself as an expert in financials, you cannot empathise with someone who is not savvy in that area.

In short - it is rare that someone DESERVES to get ripped off. It is not always their fault. It is simply a matter that we all have our vulnerabilities and blind spots. With some people their blind spot is a financial one.

negative. There are cases where people deserves the rip off; because of greed; and other cases where they don't deserve it because of limited knowledge. Majority of people fall into the latter scenario.

I have witnessed few cases where people fell for the scam artists because of greed. Despite my early warnings to them; they went ahead and put money in a ponzi scheme; who promised them a guarenteed 10% monthly return; paid monthly; but to no avail. One of the fellows lost 100K. What do you call thess guys? in my opinion they deserve the rip off.

BTW; one of you mentioned Queensland (The Gold Coast of AU) as the land of scams. Indeed the above ponzi scheme was based in Queensland.

 

[pboyles]

Hi pb,

None taken - and good, I hope I am talking nonsense. The onus is on you to prove it and to work with T2W to help protect newbies rather than making out we're the cause of the problem. It would be a much better use of your time and far more beneficial for those who you seek to help and protect.


I don't like to blow my own trumpet but, as C_V has already linked to the FAQ in his post, I will add to his comment by saying that T2W has the single most comprehensive guide to be found anywhere on the net to help protect newbies from being ripped off. As I've said repeatedly over the years, if there are better resources out there - or more up to date ones - just tell me and I'll add them to the relevant Sticky or 'Useful Links' (post #3) of the FAQ.
Tim.

It may well be a comprehensive guide but nobody will read it, if they did how did the whole Senen Pousa thing become so big on T2W? None of these guys do any due diligence, they just see this 100% a year marketing and can't wait to hand over their money. The only thing that is effective is naming and shaming the people and companies involved. This causes a lot of damage to them, if it didn't why would they get so upset about it? Would they be paying the Queens solicitors to threaten you if this wasn't hurting them?

EDIT. When I say 'paying' the Queens solicitors I meant employing. I understand no money changed hands.

 

[pboyles]

Hi pb,

None taken - and good, I hope I am talking nonsense. The onus is on you to prove it and to work with T2W to help protect newbies rather than making out we're the cause of the problem. It would be a much better use of your time and far more beneficial for those who you seek to help and protect.

OK let's start by jointly lobbying the FSA to investigate FXCM. As you know they were only forced to pay compensation to US clients. Let's make sure their other clients are compensated as well. This has all been clearly documented by CFTC and the NFA so it's not unsubstantiated allegations we are talking about.

 

[alphadude]

OK let's start by jointly lobbying the FSA to investigate FXCM. As you know they were only forced to pay compensation to US clients. Let's make sure their other clients are compensated as well. This has all been clearly documented by CFTC and the NFA so it's not unsubstantiated allegations we are talking about.

IMHO forum sites such as t2w should not go beyond offering a platform for collaboration to its members. No point in getting involved in court cases and the likes.

people who got smacked by scam artists or brokers can use this forum to interact with their counterparties.

If they decide to go legal; the court is the place to go to.