Should vendors only be allowed to post a 'vendor section'

[scose-no-doubt]

 

[gktk]

apart from a few comments cant see really where he is advertising anyway

but yes maybe someone who is making a nuisance should be told to leave, who decides this I don't know, not that bothered as this is not real life only a forum.

Like i might find the anti vender brigade quite annoying (CD, WP2 etc) so maybe they should also be asked to leave

so you argument is that as T2W is not a good place for DT to sell his products he should be allowed to continue to advertise and solicit here. Sorry but this just doesn't make any sense. If someone is making a nuisance they should be told to leave. end of.

 

[rsh01]

not that bothered as this is not real life

ah no, is none of this actually happening? you could have told me earlier.

 

[Shakone]

I tried but there is a limit to what you can do. Take a look at that thread, I called him out for soliciting. He said 'TA is the science of finding cause'. I pointed this out to him but he just came back and saying that I had to 'get it right'.

I think the point you are missing is he is just spamming with 'intelligent nonsense' so one could spend hours, days, weeks going arguing line by line but that would be futile. It wouldn't do any good, he will just post more and more nonsense which generate more hits. His agenda is hits on his website not learning how to trade (profitably). The sad thing is this is tolerated by T2W (at present), the mods don't care, as you can see from Timsk recommending your post above he clearly wants genuine traders to argue with vendors line by line. That is not the way to handle this nuisance. That's why it's broke.

Well I tried to make it clear there is no such thing as cause and effect anyway in feedback systems like this, even giving an article from Ed Seykota of all people, but nobody read it, lol.

I don't think someone mocking other methods besides his own is sufficient proof that someone is soliciting. Quite a large number of people on here, seem to insist that their way is the only way, and all else is rubbish and they're not even vendors. However, it of course brings into question the agenda of DT.

I'm surprised to see that the discussion is focused solely on his software, as it seems clear to me that he intends to teach for money at some stage.

From a forum perspective, I don't think the forum benefits much from his disappearance, as the fact he posts such suspect (in terms of ulterior motive) opinions, often leads to intelligent members countering and providing good debate or useful info, whereas otherwise they'd remain silent. The fact that barjon posted a method of FTSE-DOW led to some interesting posts if you get past all the bickering. I also feel that at times Vendors are being allowed to win, by the silence of knowledgeable traders. The vendors are very active in putting forward their views, and they have more desire for that fight, so they often win.

 

[Steve]

OK let's get the ball rolling. Dealing with this lot is is not going to be easy but the things that are worth fixing rarely are in my experience.

What we need to be clear about from the outset is the term 'vendor'. What exactly is a vendor in your opinion? I'm assuming it ranges from the one man band through to a major firm? I am also assuming that the product or service spans the whole range of things we might be interested in as traders (or, based on what you are saying, things a newcomer might be interested in)?

If we can leave the alleged scammers and fraudsters to one side for the moment (I will return to these, I promise) it seems that the issue is not their advertising on T2W, it is their involvement in threads, especially where they directly or indirectly peddle their wares.

So is the idea of a vendors area that they would only be allowed to post in this?

Would exceptions be made where they may have something to say in the main threads provided it is policed effectively?

If there is a vendors area I assume the theory is that their intentions are explicit and anyone participating in those threads would be clearly told 'caveat emptor'?

I am just trying to get a clear view of the subject at this stage before pressing on to consider what we might do.

 

[pboyles]

OK let's get the ball rolling. Dealing with this lot is is not going to be easy but the things that are worth fixing rarely are in my experience.

What we need to be clear about from the outset is the term 'vendor'. What exactly is a vendor in your opinion? I'm assuming it ranges from the one man band through to a major firm? I am also assuming that the product or service spans the whole range of things we might be interested in as traders (or, based on what you are saying, things a newcomer might be interested in)?

If we can leave the alleged scammers and fraudsters to one side for the moment (I will return to these, I promise) it seems that the issue is not their advertising on T2W, it is their involvement in threads, especially where they directly or indirectly peddle their wares.

So is the idea of a vendors area that they would only be allowed to post in this?

Would exceptions be made where they may have something to say in the main threads provided it is policed effectively?

If there is a vendors area I assume the theory is that their intentions are explicit and anyone participating in those threads would be clearly told 'caveat emptor'?

I am just trying to get a clear view of the subject at this stage before pressing on to consider what we might do.

Their advertising is an issue, particularly where it is misleading or fraudulent. You only have to look at the partner offers that went out to see some prime examples.

Also your forex rebate partners have form for fraud/dishonesty yet they continue to be your partners. When someone is given partner status it implies that you are recommending them to some extent. I imagine many people new to the business would make this assumption.

So in short its not just about vendors posting in threads, that is an annoyance but more damage is probably done by allowing vendors to officially associate themselves with you.

I can see where this is going, vendors allowed their own area and protected from scrutiny.

 

[wackypete2]

Would exceptions be made where they may have something to say in the main threads provided it is policed effectively?

OK, I'll start...
Policing effectively has not been the norm around here and I mean no disrespect I know it's not easy. For example, let's say a vendor has as his avatar the name of his website or software. Then EVERY thread he posts in he is advertising regardless of what he says. Said vendor appears in many threads and tells everyone that the method presented in those threads are worthless for many reasons. How would one determine that what the vendor is saying is a genuine opinion with reasoned thought or a masked advert (with his avatar clearly showing)?

Peter

 

[The Leopard]

I can see where this is going, vendors allowed their own area and protected from scrutiny.

A cesspit is probably the most likely outcome. There's already the precedent over at FF as well, of course.

The best thing would be to ban all of them and have no vendor advertising (other than perhaps from platforms and some brokers) but that isn't going to happen, for obvious reasons.

 

[barjon]

................I can see where this is going, vendors allowed their own area and protected from scrutiny.............

For Gawd's sake, peebee, must you see conspiracy in everything. What about trying, just a teensy bit, to be constructive and suspend judgement for a bit until Steve comes up with something.

 

[The Leopard]

How would one determine that what the vendor is saying is a genuine opinion with reasoned thought or a masked advert (with his avatar clearly showing)?

Peter

Oh, I can think of a way.

This whole debate is utterly futile, and has had me rolling around laughing.

People should ask themselves a very simple question - what is the purpose of T2W? If you think that it is to provide a place for people to discuss trading, there are some guys on the Gold Coast that will want to talk to you about training and managed forex accounts.

 

[wackypete2]

Here's another issue that's been hot lately. Threads that are started with titles like "Make $1milllion from $1k in 30 days" or similar. There are several current threads like that going on right now. The threads are allowed to continue ad infinitum even though in every case there's no reasonable trading content and in at least 1 case after a few weeks the OP hasn't even admitted to making any trades yet. These threads are solely to instigate laughs, member bashing, vendor trash, etc. Yet a genuine thread where someone is trying to alert other members of a potential scam and shows bankruptcy documents and other court cases, a history of similar issues being discussed on other trading related threads, and a link to a webinar where potential scammer admits he doesn't trade, gets hacked up and/or removed from t2w.

Peter

 

[wackypete2]

OK, I'm done. I made enough enemies for a day.

Peter

 

[The Leopard]

OK, I'm done. I made enough enemies for a day.

Peter

Ah! That's an interesting way of looking at things. To be honest, it had never occurred to me that such a thing was possible.

 

[MORRIS2001]

OK, I'll start...
Policing effectively has not been the norm around here and I mean no disrespect I know it's not easy. For example, let's say a vendor has as his avatar the name of his website or software. Then EVERY thread he posts in he is advertising regardless of what he says. Said vendor appears in many threads and tells everyone that the method presented in those threads are worthless for many reasons. How would one determine that what the vendor is saying is a genuine opinion with reasoned thought or a masked advert (with his avatar clearly showing)?

Peter

It's an interesting one and your issue would be filtering.

For example, I clearly fall into the catagory of a vendor. But I've been posting on bulletin boards since the 90s while also always being in the market. I've always made it very clear what I do for a living on all my posts.

So in one way I am advertising but in another way I am being totally honest and clear with people as to my background and so any bias I may inadvertently carry.

If I were to hide who I was and what I do for a living in order to post on BBs then I wouldn't consider this to be very honest. I know of a few people who do this and I also know their businesses and why they are being secretive.

I have 20 years of professional broking experience and the last 10 in the OTC market. I like to post on here occasionally when the thread is a subject that I know a considerable amount on. Often I am aware of things from the inside that a client would never naturally know as the brokers hide these things.

The flip side is that I have to bite my tongue when I see posts promoting products and firms where I know who the owners really are and their appalling track records. There are many posts where I'd love to tell people what is really going on but you can't.

Posts by people like Simon Denham are valuable to a community. He is always open and equitable in his writings and fair in how he lays out his views.

Killing off vendors isn't going to help T2W as you'll be throwing out the babies with the bath water.

But, T2W should be policing direct ads as they are a commercial business and vendors should be paying them not screwing them through the back door. And it is also easy to police the less scrupulous vendors.

I can't see a separate forum benefitting anyone.

 

[wackypete2]

Ah! That's an interesting way of looking at things. To be honest, it had never occurred to me that such a thing was possible.

It's a self-imposed limit



Peter

 

[Shakone]

It's an interesting one and your issue would be filtering.

For example, I clearly fall into the catagory of a vendor. But I've been posting on bulletin boards since the 90s while also always being in the market. I've always made it very clear what I do for a living on all my posts.

So in one way I am advertising but in another way I am being totally honest and clear with people as to my background and so any bias I may inadvertently carry.

If I were to hide who I was and what I do for a living in order to post on BBs then I wouldn't consider this to be very honest. I know of a few people who do this and I also know their businesses and why they are being secretive.

I have 20 years of professional broking experience and the last 10 in the OTC market. I like to post on here occasionally when the thread is a subject that I know a considerable amount on. Often I am aware of things from the inside that a client would never naturally know as the brokers hide these things.

The flip side is that I have to bite my tongue when I see posts promoting products and firms where I know who the owners really are and their appalling track records. There are many posts where I'd love to tell people what is really going on but you can't.

Posts by people like Simon Denham are valuable to a community. He is always open and equitable in his writings and fair in how he lays out his views.

Killing off vendors isn't going to help T2W as you'll be throwing out the babies with the bath water.

But, T2W should be policing direct ads as they are a commercial business and vendors should be paying them not screwing them through the back door. And it is also easy to police the less scrupulous vendors.

I can't see a separate forum benefitting anyone.

43 posts in 10 years, and an avatar advertising your product and a post advertising Simon Denham. No throwing out you, would not be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[Shakone]

Question: Why can't a vendor have his vending account in the vendor forum, and if he really wishes to contribute to debate, he is allowed to make a separate account (must ask special permission from mods so that this is known to help prevent advertising)? How many vendors would be willing to do that? And if not...that tells us everything we need to know abotu your motives.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

It's an interesting one and your issue would be filtering.

For example, I clearly fall into the catagory of a vendor. But I've been posting on bulletin boards since the 90s while also always being in the market. I've always made it very clear what I do for a living on all my posts.

So in one way I am advertising but in another way I am being totally honest and clear with people as to my background and so any bias I may inadvertently carry.

If I were to hide who I was and what I do for a living in order to post on BBs then I wouldn't consider this to be very honest. I know of a few people who do this and I also know their businesses and why they are being secretive.

I have 20 years of professional broking experience and the last 10 in the OTC market. I like to post on here occasionally when the thread is a subject that I know a considerable amount on. Often I am aware of things from the inside that a client would never naturally know as the brokers hide these things.

The flip side is that I have to bite my tongue when I see posts promoting products and firms where I know who the owners really are and their appalling track records. There are many posts where I'd love to tell people what is really going on but you can't.

Posts by people like Simon Denham are valuable to a community. He is always open and equitable in his writings and fair in how he lays out his views.

Killing off vendors isn't going to help T2W as you'll be throwing out the babies with the bath water.

But, T2W should be policing direct ads as they are a commercial business and vendors should be paying them not screwing them through the back door. And it is also easy to police the less scrupulous vendors.

I can't see a separate forum benefitting anyone.

Hey good sales Job there, must have generated a few clicks. Of course you not biased loving the false negative where you say you know people who who rip others off but you choose not too. extra points for you. lol.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

Question: Why can't a vendor have his vending account in the vendor forum, and if he really wishes to contribute to debate, he is allowed to make a separate account (must ask special permission from mods so that this is known to help prevent advertising)? How many vendors would be willing to do that? And if not...that tells us everything we need to know abotu your motives.

plenty would want to do that, they could carry on the soliciting with hidden agenda, nudge nudge, I cant say on here but drop me a pm.

 

[Shakone]

plenty would want to do that, they could carry on the soliciting with hidden agenda, nudge nudge, I cant say on here but drop me a pm.

Yes. But they would have to inform mods of their 2nd account, and the mods would have to be strict, i.e. their posts are presumed guilty from the offset, rather than what it is now.