robster970
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
The tone however is often already set for the session though
The tone however is often already set for the session though
S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
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Pat494
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
Yup. My indies were wrong on a 4 to 2 vote yesterday. Maybe they will score today - 4 for down and 2 for up
The tone however is often already set for the session though
Yup. My indies were wrong on a 4 to 2 vote yesterday. Maybe they will score today - 4 for down and 2 for up
The Leopard
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
I'm usually watching from midday or so. But I very, very rarely do anything before RTH.
I'm usually watching from midday or so. But I very, very rarely do anything before RTH.
ChocolateDigestive
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
do you mean like what happened with the flash crash
do you mean like what happened with the flash crash
The Leopard
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
Can be. I find it helpful to view the intervals between RTH as a gap (I don't display it that way, I just mark the opens and closes) - a big "gap" can be very instructive, I find it often leads to big trending moves one way or the other.
The tone however is often already set for the session though
Can be. I find it helpful to view the intervals between RTH as a gap (I don't display it that way, I just mark the opens and closes) - a big "gap" can be very instructive, I find it often leads to big trending moves one way or the other.
Pat494
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
damn stopped out on a very tight stop
damn stopped out on a very tight stop
robster970
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
I agree - when it opens out of balance from the previous day's RTH-close, you either get the high possibility of the OD/OTD/ORR type open which is usually accompanied by heavy activity in the prevailing direction on T&S and a clear one way auction, or you can see it just doesn't have the legs, nobody wants to trade at those levels, trading dries up, T&S thins out and you take the reversal back into balance.
Jesus - I just re-read that - does that make any sense?
What I was also talking about was how the ONL and ONH significantly shape the RTH session too.
ADDED LINK TO ABBREVIATIONS FROM ANOTHER THREAD
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...rs-es-intraday-hotch-potch-7.html#post1821800
I agree - when it opens out of balance from the previous day's RTH-close, you either get the high possibility of the OD/OTD/ORR type open which is usually accompanied by heavy activity in the prevailing direction on T&S and a clear one way auction, or you can see it just doesn't have the legs, nobody wants to trade at those levels, trading dries up, T&S thins out and you take the reversal back into balance.
Jesus - I just re-read that - does that make any sense?
What I was also talking about was how the ONL and ONH significantly shape the RTH session too.
ADDED LINK TO ABBREVIATIONS FROM ANOTHER THREAD
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...rs-es-intraday-hotch-potch-7.html#post1821800
Last edited:
The Leopard
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
I think it's best to avoid the opening few minutes unless you get a seriously good reason to get in. It often whips around a good bit before settling into the groove.
I think it's best to avoid the opening few minutes unless you get a seriously good reason to get in. It often whips around a good bit before settling into the groove.
The Leopard
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
LOL Only because I know what you're saying and agree with it. Otherwise, I'd probably have to send it down to Bletchley Park and see what they make of it.
LOL Only because I know what you're saying and agree with it. Otherwise, I'd probably have to send it down to Bletchley Park and see what they make of it.
robster970
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
if you were long, buying ledge at 46 which tells you where buyers have been supporting overnight with last test at 13:50 GMT and a stop about 43.50 on ES with a 48.50 target at the ON VPOC or if it's looking sexy, go for about 53.
Add 3-4 for cash on all those figures.
if you were long, buying ledge at 46 which tells you where buyers have been supporting overnight with last test at 13:50 GMT and a stop about 43.50 on ES with a 48.50 target at the ON VPOC or if it's looking sexy, go for about 53.
Add 3-4 for cash on all those figures.
ChocolateDigestive
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
i dont touch US stocks in the first 20 mins for that very reason, unless it is a gap play or an opening order value play.
i dont touch US stocks in the first 20 mins for that very reason, unless it is a gap play or an opening order value play.
robster970
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
Gay.
ES frequently tips it's hat in the first 5mins. As it's in discovery mode to ascertain value with volume the mechanics it goes through are often predictable. You are missing good opportunities here lads.
Gay.
ES frequently tips it's hat in the first 5mins. As it's in discovery mode to ascertain value with volume the mechanics it goes through are often predictable. You are missing good opportunities here lads.
Pat494
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
Perhaps a translation is in order Rob
RTH = real time
but
OD/OTD/ORR and T&S , ONL, ONH I haven't come across yet.
Perhaps a translation is in order Rob
RTH = real time
but
OD/OTD/ORR and T&S , ONL, ONH I haven't come across yet.
The Leopard
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
I don't like to be dogmatic about it. Sometimes you can get good moves - maybe a strong, dramatic continuation move, a test of very solid support or resistance and a stonking rejection - and you're in from the off. The latter I'm not so keen on, but it can work if your R:R is sound.
In general though, I find the risk just unappealing. Waiting for a pull back (unless the trend is super-strong and ideally continuing from a prior period), buying a breakout pull back from the opening range, fading weak reversals in a trend or after a breakout, all are I find better approaches.
Just more confirmation, a little patience, just works out better for me. Especially with pull back trades, I normally get a better entry with patience. Sometimes I miss the move of course, but everything's a trade off.
I don't like to be dogmatic about it. Sometimes you can get good moves - maybe a strong, dramatic continuation move, a test of very solid support or resistance and a stonking rejection - and you're in from the off. The latter I'm not so keen on, but it can work if your R:R is sound.
In general though, I find the risk just unappealing. Waiting for a pull back (unless the trend is super-strong and ideally continuing from a prior period), buying a breakout pull back from the opening range, fading weak reversals in a trend or after a breakout, all are I find better approaches.
Just more confirmation, a little patience, just works out better for me. Especially with pull back trades, I normally get a better entry with patience. Sometimes I miss the move of course, but everything's a trade off.
robster970
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
Link to abbreviations - most of it from market profile and auction market theory.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...rs-es-intraday-hotch-potch-7.html#post1821800
Link to abbreviations - most of it from market profile and auction market theory.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...rs-es-intraday-hotch-potch-7.html#post1821800
robster970
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re: S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat
Sellers coming in at 52.50, now would be a good time to profit take.
Sellers coming in at 52.50, now would be a good time to profit take.
Pat494
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yeah right
CBAVOL - Combined Bid Ask Volume - self explanatory
DOM - Depth of Market - the ladder thing with prices and market depth next to it
IB - Initial Balance - market profile term for the first 2 30min periods of RTH session
MAE - Maximum Adverse Excursion - how much a position you got into goes offside before it goes onside
MFE - Maximum Favourable Excursion - I usually measure this as the further a move goes onside for twice the period of time I was in the original move.
NVPOC - Naked Volume Point of Control - price where most contracts have traded in a previous day and price has not returned to that level - think liquidity here
OAIR - Open Auction In Range - RTH open occurred inside yesterday's RTH range
OAOR - Open Auction Outside Range - RTH open outside yesterday's RTH range
OD - Open Drive - Type of opening where price just shoots off in 1 direction from the bell
ONH - Overnight high - highest price for ES between close at 21:15GMT and 14:30GMT open
ONL - Overnight low - lowest price for ES between close at 21:15GMT and 14:30GMT open
ORR - Open Rejection Reverse - Type of opening where it pushes to a certain level, is overtly rejected and then buggers off in the other direction
OTD - Open Test Drive - Type of opening where price tests a level first, a little check if you will, then buggers off hard in the other direction
OTF - Other Timeframe - big money participant that pushes price away from current value
RTH - Regular Trading Hours - 14:30 GMT to 21:15 GMT - in line with NYSE hours + 15mins
T&S - Time & Sales - when and how many market orders traded at a certain price
VPOC - Volume Point of Control - basically price where most contracts have traded
yeah right
CBAVOL - Combined Bid Ask Volume - self explanatory
DOM - Depth of Market - the ladder thing with prices and market depth next to it
IB - Initial Balance - market profile term for the first 2 30min periods of RTH session
MAE - Maximum Adverse Excursion - how much a position you got into goes offside before it goes onside
MFE - Maximum Favourable Excursion - I usually measure this as the further a move goes onside for twice the period of time I was in the original move.
NVPOC - Naked Volume Point of Control - price where most contracts have traded in a previous day and price has not returned to that level - think liquidity here
OAIR - Open Auction In Range - RTH open occurred inside yesterday's RTH range
OAOR - Open Auction Outside Range - RTH open outside yesterday's RTH range
OD - Open Drive - Type of opening where price just shoots off in 1 direction from the bell
ONH - Overnight high - highest price for ES between close at 21:15GMT and 14:30GMT open
ONL - Overnight low - lowest price for ES between close at 21:15GMT and 14:30GMT open
ORR - Open Rejection Reverse - Type of opening where it pushes to a certain level, is overtly rejected and then buggers off in the other direction
OTD - Open Test Drive - Type of opening where price tests a level first, a little check if you will, then buggers off hard in the other direction
OTF - Other Timeframe - big money participant that pushes price away from current value
RTH - Regular Trading Hours - 14:30 GMT to 21:15 GMT - in line with NYSE hours + 15mins
T&S - Time & Sales - when and how many market orders traded at a certain price
VPOC - Volume Point of Control - basically price where most contracts have traded
The Leopard
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Oh absolutely, I don't disagree with that. Like I say, I don't like to be dogmatic, and there are times when I'll enter in the first few minutes. In fact, today is a good example, and the possible trade you mentioned a little earlier is a situation I refer to in my post above (price immediately dropped into obvious support and immediately slammed off it). You could have got in around the 1346 / 7 mark, and it looks like it's going to hit your 1353 target pretty easily.
I think though one needs to be able to evaluate the price action in context not only carefully but also quickly. I do it sometimes, but I'm pretty cautious about it and only get involved if it has a cherry on top.
EDIT:
1353 hit. Nice call Robster.
Gay.
ES frequently tips it's hat in the first 5mins. As it's in discovery mode to ascertain value with volume the mechanics it goes through are often predictable. You are missing good opportunities here lads.
Oh absolutely, I don't disagree with that. Like I say, I don't like to be dogmatic, and there are times when I'll enter in the first few minutes. In fact, today is a good example, and the possible trade you mentioned a little earlier is a situation I refer to in my post above (price immediately dropped into obvious support and immediately slammed off it). You could have got in around the 1346 / 7 mark, and it looks like it's going to hit your 1353 target pretty easily.
I think though one needs to be able to evaluate the price action in context not only carefully but also quickly. I do it sometimes, but I'm pretty cautious about it and only get involved if it has a cherry on top.
EDIT:
1353 hit. Nice call Robster.
