I'm Nearly in THAT 90% Category

[oildaytrader]

The next stage is the 95% club.Will you fall into the trap?

Only if you do not follow Sneville's advice

 

[Dinos]

SangfroidFX, dont want to sound patronising, arrogant or cocksure, but can I suggest you take your analysis back to basics and kISS, trading does not have to be difficult, and simplicity is the key, dont over complicate things, don't take everybody's opinions to heart. FX (for me anyway) is my bread and butter, I've being trading full time over 8 years, at first I thought these type of forums would help, unfortunately, this was not the case, I become more confused etc etc, I lost my first 2 pots of dosh, and I stepped back and learnt how to trade and learnt from my mistakes before putting my money on the line again. Look at these errors you have made, not as a failure but a learning opportunity to move forward and become a successfull trader, patience, discipline and good money management is needed, only time and experience (good and bad) will teach you this.

 

[Black Swan]

SangfroidFX, dont want to sound patronising, arrogant or cocksure, but can I suggest you take your analysis back to basics and kISS, trading does not have to be difficult, and simplicity is the key, dont over complicate things, don't take everybody's opinions to heart. FX (for me anyway) is my bread and butter, I've being trading full time over 8 years, at first I thought these type of forums would help, unfortunately, this was not the case, I become more confused etc etc, I lost my first 2 pots of dosh, and I stepped back and learnt how to trade and learnt from my mistakes before putting my money on the line again. Look at these errors you have made, not as a failure but a learning opportunity to move forward and become a successfull trader, patience, discipline and good money management is needed, only time and experience (good and bad) will teach you this.

Hat doffed

 

[GladiatorX]

Ok, enter trades with a 5 pip stop loss, 100 pip TP order and don't move your stop. Let me know how that one works out for you.

If you randomly entered a stock; With a stop loss out of the way of historical volatility and a target of X3 - You have a positive expectancy strategy. As its proven (qualified) that in markets, when you eliminate volatility, have direction over the long-term.

Which is similar to what you are saying; apart from 5-pips in retail FX (with a spread and slippage) and volatility is just unrealistic to even consider as a possible strategy

I know that you weren't suggesting it was...

 

[rogue8]

sangfroidFX, been there, done that. Don't sweat it, man . It's all part of the learning curve - take it as an expensive lesson. Make sure you're analytical and learn from everything. You'll get there.

You've probably read this all before... so read it again! As mentioned previously, it sounds like you're too emotional which is leading to a lack of discipline... and being risk averse doesn't help (1.5 years demo-trading?). Gotta take risks in this game otherwise you're either an onlooker or a passenger.

Develop your trading strategy (not random 5pip hits) that includes exit strategies, risk management (and use a Stop - don't just 'hope' for a loss to magically turn into a profit!) etc. Test if it's consistently profitable, write the method down step-by-step, review it, live by it.

*Your goal, sangfroidFX, is to follow your rules* - not to sit there and 'make money' (money is a by-product of your successful trading actions (following the rules of a proven winning edge)).

If it's profitable in demo-trading then practice it with tiny amounts of real money... but I think you need to emotionally detach yourself from £s ('absolute' amounts with a certain spending power) and think about pips ('relative' scalable value).

Why tiny amounts?... Because your biggest challenge is in changing yourself which holds you back when trading real money, as you already know. Don't risk too much cash until you change your mentality. Your equity curve should ideally grow exponentially but it has to follow your lead.

Emotions: when you feel pessimistic or greedy and are about to take a tiny profit or let a loss run, take a deep breath and think why you are about to do it. Is it because of your emotions or because of your rules? (At this stage your rules will be more reliable at trading than you are - they're a distillation of accumulated knowledge). Identify your emotions and refer to a summary of your trading rules... The price has moved X pips from your entry, what do the rules tell you to do...? NOW BLOODY DO IT! Whether you like it or not. Accept those wins and losses, learn from them and move on.

Here's another real-world example, if you find yourself with an extreme emotional reaction to something, e.g. you're working in the hotel and someone hasn't tipped you for taking their bags up (even though they didn't want you to)... Put away that chain-saw, mister! Rationalise what you're feeling and realise what it's making you do. Stop the damaging train of thought. You: 'OK, I know I'm freakin' mad, but I'm not gonna let it turn me into an embarrassing nutter... I'm cool now.' And you're on your way again.

Your objective at this point is to Practice following your rules with real money - think of practicing as cognitive therapy. Compulsive gambling behaviour to take big risks and quick profits is dictated by your frontal cortex, similar to a drug addict or an overeater. You need to change those behaviour patterns by consistently following your rules...

Following your rules = Developing your discipline = Less irrational and emotional = Profits (results) = Proof that you can do it consistently even after losing streaks = Self-confidence and confidence in your Rules (feedback loop) = Increasing risk per trade (gradually building up to, say, 2%).

Patience, son. It'll take time... Then watch your career take off! The power of compounding, baby!...

 

[jel31]

Orders...

Hi SangfroidFX

There are loads of good points in a lot of these posts, but if it's of help to you, here is my two pennies-worth (with no doubt some repetition...)

Look at higher TFs, H1, H4, less noise and you will give back a smaller % of you profits to your broker.

Keep it simple, use S&R levels, wait for the set-ups to come to you. If nothing looks good, walk away.

Use orders, these have helped me no end in staying emotion-less. Set your SL and TP (or let trade run moving SL along) and walk away. I have never been able to manually close a losing trade without emotion or stress so I always let the SL do it for me.

There's a lot to be said for trading with real money rather than demo, but look out for brokers or SB companies who offer "free" money or very low stakes. e.g. ETX offer £100 when you open an account so risk their money (you can keep any profits) and with Finspreads you can start at just 10p a pip. Don't risk too much until you're happy with what you're doing.

Hope that helps. I wish you all the best, don't make it harder than it needs to be and let us know how you get on.

Julie

 

[Sang Froid]

You're too immature, you're too needy and if you havn't cracked it after 3 years you're not commited enough. Stop bleating, get trading and stop it with this oft repeated dream of; "I'll get successful enough to give up my day job and concentrate on full time trading..." Want to be a successful full time trader? Then start doing it full time, by that I mean 24/7 total immersion until you get it...

* disclaimer; I make no apologies for the harshness of this post...

No apologies necessary. Opinions are just that. Sometimes we need harsh words to make us take a step back and re-evaluate ourselves and in parts I agree with you.

The part I don't agree with however is "start doing it full time, by that I mean 24/7 total immersion..."

I have invested many many hours/days/weeks of my life into studying the market, I need a job at the minute to earn a living to pay the bills. It would be hard to trade forex living on the street with no access to the internet. As for the "commited enough" part, I don't believe you're in a position to question my commitment. This is not something I have stumbled upon last week. I have had absolutely nobody to show me how to trade, I do not personally know any other person who trades any market. I decided not to enter a potentially lucrative career in the law field and took a job working as a Night Porter in a hotel because it gave me the ideal times to trade. How dare you question my commitment. I am not asking for a personal attack on my character, I was asking for advice relating to my trading.

You mention this "oft repeated dream of; "I'll get successful enough to give up my day job and concentrate on full time trading..."" Again, who are you to question my dreams and aspirations. I had once wanted to become a solicitor, if my lecturer at university had come out with this comment I would question his credentials to be imparting advice to ANYONE. "Here we go, another wannabe solicitor". People generally invest in financial markets to make a monetary gain. If a by-product of that means not having to have a day job then so be it.

I get the impression that you are bored by newcomers to this game asking the same questions and and getting stuck in the same areas. I thought that was why this forum existed, so people can seek help from others if need be. If by my seeking help and asking questions has in some way caused you such tedium that you feel the need to insert a roll-eyes emoticon then I ask you not to reply to this thread. I said any advice was appreciated in my OP, however I must emphasise the advice part and not an attack on my character.

 

[Sang Froid]

s

Develop your trading strategy (not random 5pip hits) that includes exit strategies, risk management (and use a Stop - don't just 'hope' for a loss to magically turn into a profit!) etc. Test if it's consistently profitable, write the method down step-by-step, review it, live by it.

*Your goal, sangfroidFX, is to follow your rules* - not to sit there and 'make money' (money is a by-product of your successful trading actions (following the rules of a proven winning edge)).



Patience, son. It'll take time... Then watch your career take off! The power of compounding, baby!...

You have summed up many peoples replies in the space of about four paragraphs and I thank you. You're right, I was focused on the money and this in turn clouded my judgement when making calls. I had no trading plan, well not one of worth anyway and for now I have gone back to demo trading again with the hope of gaining a fresh perspective.

Money is a by-product of trading.... something I shall surely take with me.

 

[Sang Froid]

Hi SangfroidFX



Look at higher TFs, H1, H4, less noise and you will give back a smaller % of you profits to your broker.

Keep it simple, use S&R levels, wait for the set-ups to come to you. If nothing looks good, walk away.

Use orders

Hope that helps. I wish you all the best, don't make it harder than it needs to be and let us know how you get on.

Julie

Absolutely! I have since been looking at bringing everything you've said into my trading. This is something I should have been doing a long time ago but as someone else said earlier it's our mistakes that can lead to progress, unfortunately it has been an expensive mistake for me.

All advice helps as it enables me to look at other areas of my trading that I may not have looked at before, and these last few days I have learned more than I ever could've from books. Talking to other people who have gone through the same, made the same mistakes, and done the hard work helps enormously.

 

[Black Swan]

No apologies necessary. Opinions are just that. Sometimes we need harsh words to make us take a step back and re-evaluate ourselves and in parts I agree with you.

erm...IMHO the dream of eventually and seamlessly moving from paid employment to self employed full time trading is a myth, a myth in part deliberately perpetuated by the industry. There's a paradox; if an employed person was earning 30K at their full time job and 15K tax free spread betting, part time, effortlessly, by just 'lumping one on' in the morning or evening, I'd suggest they just keep on doing what works, why give up the day job? Just compound the strategy...problem is doing it part time/lumping one on will never work (IMHO)...

In relation to the time and the supposed energy, the commitment, the sacrifice etc. part time traders make in order to make it work well that's just part of the gig - of any job, particularly in this contracting job market.

If you'd be on the streets if you gave up your job in order to start trading then you don't have enough cash to trade, simple as, folks who are 2 wage packets from the gutter should concentrate on staying out of that gutter...

I'm not assasinating your character, don't know you, you are v. defensive...you asked for advice I gave it, the fact that it didn't fit into the cosy, polite, framed response you expected is your problem.

So what's the answer; after 3 years of playing around trading only now you're going to 'up' the time frames, put the money second to the 'game', open more practice accounts, go back to basics...? Get to fook...you do not have enough cash, or access to cash to trade...find it, or give it up...hope this helps...

 

[Windowsill]

Yes yes, we all know of the "90% of traders fail" comments, the thing is I really don't want to be one of those. I'm going to be brutally honest about myself here, and what I'd like from people who read this is advice. When I say advice, I mean any advice, even if it's give up. I'm not expecting for 'magic' solve all answers, even if no one reads this I think by writing it down and reading it for myself might help, therapy almost!

First off, let me tell you about my background, this is just so people can get a general idea of why I'm trading and what I'm trying to achieve. I'm 28, and a law graduate who incidentally doesn't work in the law field. I currently work nights in a hotel. The reason I took this job is it fits in perfectly with my trading. I'd like to eventually trade full time from home. That's it, no ifs no buts. Trade full time from home.

I'm single, no kids, no mortgage. I've small outgoings, mainly rent and bills.... the usual. In order to make forex my main source of income, I would need to earn between £12,000 and £15,000pa to live quite comfortably.

Now, I've been trading forex for three years. The first year and a half was on a demo account, this easy I thought, I'm making thousands. I invested £400 and promptly blew my account in a little under two weeks. Why? I knew NOTHING. My leverage was stupidly high, the lot size I was using was too high, I had no idea my emotions would suddenly come into play and effect every decison I made.

So, a year and a half on, demo trading up until then. Reading everything I can. Studying, practicing, re-reading the same books and internet forums. I invest £1000,
"this time I'm ready, this is it, this is the time". I use leverage of 1:100 and a lot size of 0.2. Careful money management is my plan. Don't run before you can walk. Start slow this isn't get rich quick. Build on this capital now until I can make consistent profits. I have a tested system and strategy. I have a trading plan. I know what times suit me and what times don't. I know what pairs I'm going to trade.

Everything starts off well, I make a few quid here and a few quid there, at the end of the first week I'm up with consistent profit. I'm using a simple macd crossover on a 5min chart with Heiken Ashi bars for entry and using the H1 for S/R levels. Typically I'll take profit around 5 pips. Why? I don't need to make that much money, this is a business for me, a living, only make what I need. 5 pips, 4 times a day with careful money management was my plan, easy huh! I avoided fundamentals like the plague. The thing I found I was saying was... "why the f**k didn't I leave that trade open? I could've hit my target for the week with that one trade". Never the less, I was making profit... lets not get greedy, take the profit, take the profit, take the profit was my motto. I'm quite an emotional person by nature, I'm not that greedy, in fact I'm quite risk averse. Occasionally the price would go in my favour, I'd take the profit bang on the mark before it turns the other way. "See", I'd say to myself, "imagine if you left that open, then you'd be sorry".

Into the second week and I got greedy, opening a trade against my trading plan, I never should've opened the trade and I got burned, and rightly so. I lose the profit I made the week before. I say to myself, "it's ok it's only the profit from last week" and "we all have to take losses every now and again". I trade without Stop Losses, prefering a mental Stop Loss if you like. I decide when the trade is no longer valid. I go on to make a few consecutive wins that week, enough to keep me in the game!

Third week and it falls apart totally. Monday starts of as usual, a couple of good trades, perhaps could've left the positon open a bit longer but still made some profit. I open a position, the price moves in my favour, I don't take the profit this time too early, before I know it the price is going the other way and I'm down. Closed the trade. I went away from my computer for half an hour or so, come back and low and behold, the price went the way I thought it would. Ok so what do I do next time that happens, hold the trade of course, have confidence in yourself, expect a bit of DD every now and again. The loss was big but not massive, just one of those things I tell myself, emotion, was very negative and I was very pissed off with myself.

A few days later (after two or three small good trades) the same thing happens again, ok this time I'm going to hold it for a bit, grow some balls!! Don't take losses, not everyone has to take losses It's going to turn round and come my way, BANG emotions come flooding in, screaming CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE. I close and make another loss the same size as last week. My account from an intial £1000 from having a high of £1080 inside two weeks, now reads £850.

Ok so what do I do? I know, I've been playing around with Systematic (automated trading using robots) through the broker Alpari. I've had numerous demo accounts and It's been fairly successful. I'll put that £850 into Systematic, sort my automated portfolio out and let some robots trade for me, the demo has been good.

Two days later my account now reads £350.

HELP! I really am stuck for ideas now. Don't get me wrong, I realise £1000 in the grand scheme is nothing. I was not expecting to go full time on £1000 I was using this to get the emotional side of trading with real money.

Are some people just not cut out for trading? If there are any newbies reading this please take this advice. Forex is not easy, emotions are everything in this environment, I underestimated that when I first started. I used to be of the belief that anybody can do anything if they try hard enough. I've been doing this for three years and am still no closer now as to where I was when I blew my first account! Maybe I need to change my strategy, maybe I need to start all over again. Maybe I need to read more books. Maybe I need to control my emotions more. MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE.....

You would have been up £650 if you had done the complete opposite of what you have done.

 

[virtuos0]

You would have been up £650 if you had done the complete opposite of what you have done.

Don't be a pratt, of course you wouldn't be £650 up, have a think about it.

Why don't you go up to the next homeless person you see and say to him ,"you know what mate, if you had just done the opposite with your life you would be living in a castle sipping cognac from a diamond-encrusted goblet" maybe you can turn their life around.

 

[spy74]

hang in there...

Yes yes, we all know of the "90% of traders fail" comments, the thing is I really don't want to be one of those. I'm going to be brutally honest about myself here, and what I'd like from people who read this is advice. When I say advice, I mean any advice, even if it's give up. I'm not expecting for 'magic' solve all answers, even if no one reads this I think by writing it down and reading it for myself might help, therapy almost!

First off, let me tell you about my background, this is just so people can get a general idea of why I'm trading and what I'm trying to achieve. I'm 28, and a law graduate who incidentally doesn't work in the law field. I currently work nights in a hotel. The reason I took this job is it fits in perfectly with my trading. I'd like to eventually trade full time from home. That's it, no ifs no buts. Trade full time from home.

I'm single, no kids, no mortgage. I've small outgoings, mainly rent and bills.... the usual. In order to make forex my main source of income, I would need to earn between £12,000 and £15,000pa to live quite comfortably.

Now, I've been trading forex for three years. The first year and a half was on a demo account, this easy I thought, I'm making thousands. I invested £400 and promptly blew my account in a little under two weeks. Why? I knew NOTHING. My leverage was stupidly high, the lot size I was using was too high, I had no idea my emotions would suddenly come into play and effect every decison I made.

So, a year and a half on, demo trading up until then. Reading everything I can. Studying, practicing, re-reading the same books and internet forums. I invest £1000,
"this time I'm ready, this is it, this is the time". I use leverage of 1:100 and a lot size of 0.2. Careful money management is my plan. Don't run before you can walk. Start slow this isn't get rich quick. Build on this capital now until I can make consistent profits. I have a tested system and strategy. I have a trading plan. I know what times suit me and what times don't. I know what pairs I'm going to trade.

Everything starts off well, I make a few quid here and a few quid there, at the end of the first week I'm up with consistent profit. I'm using a simple macd crossover on a 5min chart with Heiken Ashi bars for entry and using the H1 for S/R levels. Typically I'll take profit around 5 pips. Why? I don't need to make that much money, this is a business for me, a living, only make what I need. 5 pips, 4 times a day with careful money management was my plan, easy huh! I avoided fundamentals like the plague. The thing I found I was saying was... "why the f**k didn't I leave that trade open? I could've hit my target for the week with that one trade". Never the less, I was making profit... lets not get greedy, take the profit, take the profit, take the profit was my motto. I'm quite an emotional person by nature, I'm not that greedy, in fact I'm quite risk averse. Occasionally the price would go in my favour, I'd take the profit bang on the mark before it turns the other way. "See", I'd say to myself, "imagine if you left that open, then you'd be sorry".

Into the second week and I got greedy, opening a trade against my trading plan, I never should've opened the trade and I got burned, and rightly so. I lose the profit I made the week before. I say to myself, "it's ok it's only the profit from last week" and "we all have to take losses every now and again". I trade without Stop Losses, prefering a mental Stop Loss if you like. I decide when the trade is no longer valid. I go on to make a few consecutive wins that week, enough to keep me in the game!

Third week and it falls apart totally. Monday starts of as usual, a couple of good trades, perhaps could've left the positon open a bit longer but still made some profit. I open a position, the price moves in my favour, I don't take the profit this time too early, before I know it the price is going the other way and I'm down. Closed the trade. I went away from my computer for half an hour or so, come back and low and behold, the price went the way I thought it would. Ok so what do I do next time that happens, hold the trade of course, have confidence in yourself, expect a bit of DD every now and again. The loss was big but not massive, just one of those things I tell myself, emotion, was very negative and I was very pissed off with myself.

A few days later (after two or three small good trades) the same thing happens again, ok this time I'm going to hold it for a bit, grow some balls!! Don't take losses, not everyone has to take losses It's going to turn round and come my way, BANG emotions come flooding in, screaming CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE. I close and make another loss the same size as last week. My account from an intial £1000 from having a high of £1080 inside two weeks, now reads £850.

Ok so what do I do? I know, I've been playing around with Systematic (automated trading using robots) through the broker Alpari. I've had numerous demo accounts and It's been fairly successful. I'll put that £850 into Systematic, sort my automated portfolio out and let some robots trade for me, the demo has been good.

Two days later my account now reads £350.

HELP! I really am stuck for ideas now. Don't get me wrong, I realise £1000 in the grand scheme is nothing. I was not expecting to go full time on £1000 I was using this to get the emotional side of trading with real money.

Are some people just not cut out for trading? If there are any newbies reading this please take this advice. Forex is not easy, emotions are everything in this environment, I underestimated that when I first started. I used to be of the belief that anybody can do anything if they try hard enough. I've been doing this for three years and am still no closer now as to where I was when I blew my first account! Maybe I need to change my strategy, maybe I need to start all over again. Maybe I need to read more books. Maybe I need to control my emotions more. MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE.....

yep, been there, done that. my apologies in advance if this is repeating comments from others. i am still quite new at this also, but from what i can see, you were actually doing ok to start with, having a trading plan that you had tested and seemed to be working. however, i would do something like sticking to risking 1% of your account per trade and defo use a stop loss to enforce this - (and don't move the stop loss!). That way you are not going to be wiped out by either a large loss, or a string of smaller losses. i wouldn't get psyched out by taking small profits and later finding that the mkt keeps moving in your favour just yet, seems to me that the key focus for you at the moment should be cutting your losses before they get out of hand - ie actually sticking to a money management plan. the way that i look at it, is that we are in the business of taking risk to earn an expected payoff, not every trade is going to pay off, and you will lose money on trades, but as long as you are taking a pre-determined amount of risk for each trade (ie have a money management plan), then that is acceptable. what is not acceptable is that you lose more money on a trade than you have pre-determined in your money management plan. i also think that having a TP lvl is also a great idea, but i have also tended to try and move my stop losses up to break-even once a trade starts to move in my favour, that way you are not letting your profits turn into losses. All up, i think you should keep going, forget about making $$, focus on taking all the trades that your trading plan spits out, and stick to your money management plan when you trade...oh yeah, and i wouldn't use robots. I think trading is also about getting a feel for price action and how your market trades which will become a bigger part of your trading plan once guys like us get more experience...you can't get that frrom a robot! for the time being, focus on sticking to your trading pland AND your money management plan and execute the trades yourself. hope this helps!

 

[Black Swan]

Don't be a pratt, of course you wouldn't be £650 up, have a think about it.

Why don't you go up to the next homeless person you see and say to him ,"you know what mate, if you had just done the opposite with your life you would be living in a castle sipping cognac from a diamond-encrusted goblet" maybe you can turn their life around.

you are a beast...you been away at one of your steering committee/Bildeberger meet ups again?

 

[montmorencyt2w]

you are a beast...you been away at one of your steering committee/Bildeberger meet ups again?

You mean he's either a driving instructor, a brickie, or mixes household emulsion paint?

 

[VingTsunKuen]

sangfroidFX,check PVT messages...

 

[Windowsill]

Don't be a pratt, of course you wouldn't be £650 up, have a think about it.

Why don't you go up to the next homeless person you see and say to him ,"you know what mate, if you had just done the opposite with your life you would be living in a castle sipping cognac from a diamond-encrusted goblet" maybe you can turn their life around.

Why not .....?
If all stops & limits had been swopped around.

The contrast with a homeless person is just stupid.

Its a well known fact that if do the opposite to a complete novice you will end up!...by the same amount!!!!....I have done it acting as a hedge fund!!!!

I mention it to provoke some thought.



It amazes me that you even have people agreeing with you...Its laughable.

 

[jaspertrademaster]

agreed, Windowsill.

 

[zupcon]

Its a well known fact that if do the opposite to a complete novice you will end up!...by the same amount!!!!....I have done it acting as a hedge fund!!!!.

and of course when the complete novice gets a winning trade, you'll be down by the same amount.

The complete novice is trading at completely at random, and that means you are also trading at random, and so over time, you'll get the same results

Theres nothing wrong with randomly opening trades, but you dont need the time and trouble of roping in an accomplice, a coin will will do just fine.

 

[virtuos0]

Why not .....?
If all stops & limits had been swopped around.

The contrast with a homeless person is just stupid.

Its a well known fact that if do the opposite to a complete novice you will end up!...by the same amount!!!!....I have done it acting as a hedge fund!!!!

I mention it to provoke some thought.



It amazes me that you even have people agreeing with you...Its laughable.

Firstly let us imagine that we weren't even talking about human beings but emotion free algo's, one algo sells and the other buys at the exact same time using market orders, and they both take profit and stop losses at ten pips. Does one win what the other loses? Absolutely not, because of the effects of slippage. It's more than possible, in fact it's common for there to be slippage on the buy side and not on the sell side, depending on available liquidity and volatility.

As far as a human trader finding he has a losing system and choosing to do the opposite, as Zupcon points out all you are doing is picking the other side of the coin. Because of the spread you pay you will lose in the long run. It's no different than the guy in a coin toss game seeing that after 100 flips he has picked heads and is 60:40 down, and deciding to swap and pick tails for the next 100 flips. Is he then going to automatically win 60:40 as he would have in the previous set of flips? Of course not!