I'm Nearly in THAT 90% Category

[barryb]

If you're of an emotional disposition, which you admit you are, I would recommend you trade higher timeframes where you can better control your thoughts and impulses. I'd also say stick with price action, keep it as simple as possible. Your head is all over the place at the minute, don't pursue the route you've been taking, strip it down and design a simple price action strategy on higher timeframes, 1/4hr. Recognise you're not any good at the lower tf's and take the emotion out of your trading.

 

[Masquerade]

that could work if i found a very slow moving pair

Go on....do 100 trades with that and see how good it is. You only need to be right 1 in 20 times to break even.

 

[*JDR*]

STEP AWAY FROM YOUR COMPUTER NOW !!!!

You need to deal with your emotions.

I was once where you were.

I let my emotions get in the way.

You are either too emotional or you are trading size that you cannot handle.

I now set up trades at home. Entries and trailing stops.

I then go to work. I cannot access my account at work.

Not having access to my account has helped me not CARE.

That is right.

I do not care what happens after I set up a trade. It is done... set up.... sorted... I can no longer do anything about it...my decisions and plans weer made before the trade..... so I have no more interest in the trade except recording the results when it closes.... I don't care what happens after the close either..... I noticed one trade recently hit my stop and reverse... i.e. my stop was the highest price recently (i was short).... it has gone on to do great things.... I don't care it means nothing to me now.... it was all about the entry and the risk management......

It has become a process that is part of my daily routine... just like brushing my teeth....

Perhaps I am boring....

But the thing I care about is excellent risk management... it seems strange right? I get a kick out of managing risk.... whether the trade works is also pretty irrelevent to me because I know with my plan and risk management that overall I will win in the end....

If you cannot be that dispassionate about trading then you are not in the right game.

 

[robster970]

If you're of an emotional disposition, which you admit you are, I would recommend you trade higher timeframes where you can better control your thoughts and impulses. I'd also say stick with price action, keep it as simple as possible. Your head is all over the place at the minute, don't pursue the route you've been taking, strip it down and design a simple price action strategy on higher timeframes, 1/4hr. Recognise you're not any good at the lower tf's and take the emotion out of your trading.

I got stuck at finding the right timeframe for a while. Trading noise 10 times a day was a fairly humbling and futile experience. I suppose you have tog o through ti to realise.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

when u make the trade u can do TP and go away from your computer :/ if your strategy and analysis is good u the price will hit TP and u will earn money.

I was going to say something similar. Although black-box robots may not be a very good idea, you can automate to a limited degree with orders to open and to close. (Just don't try to get too clever too soon). It's a cliché, but (assuming you are not actually scalping) if you can not walk away and stay way from the computer with an open trade with an easy mind you are probably overtrading in one sense or another.

And whether done manually or with orders, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing trade. You may not be able to capture 100% of a move, but you can capture sections of it in small, overlapping trades or lots (for example), taking profits along the way. Use your imagination to come up with variations on how you can do this (again, without being too ambitious at first). There is no one correct way of doing things.

And while demoing has its place, it has its limitations too, as you found out. As others have said you probably need to take a complete break for a while, but when you return, trade real money but as small stakes as you can for a while.

 

[GladiatorX]

All robots will do (if they're doing something wrong) is lose your money quicker than you can.

£1/pip is still using a fair amount of leverage on a 1k account. It depends on your style but it's still a decent size. I'll give you a clue that your edge if you have any is tiny on the small time frames.

I suppose your making money then QUICKLY by fading the robots ?

 

[Masquerade]

I suppose your making money then QUICKLY by fading the robots ?

Say what?

 

[GladiatorX]

Yes yes, we all know of the "90% of traders fail" comments, the thing is I really don't want to be one of those. I'm going to be brutally honest about myself here, and what I'd like from people who read this is advice. When I say advice, I mean any advice, even if it's give up. I'm not expecting for 'magic' solve all answers, even if no one reads this I think by writing it down and reading it for myself might help, therapy almost!

First off, let me tell you about my background, this is just so people can get a general idea of why I'm trading and what I'm trying to achieve. I'm 28, and a law graduate who incidentally doesn't work in the law field. I currently work nights in a hotel. The reason I took this job is it fits in perfectly with my trading. I'd like to eventually trade full time from home. That's it, no ifs no buts. Trade full time from home.

I'm single, no kids, no mortgage. I've small outgoings, mainly rent and bills.... the usual. In order to make forex my main source of income, I would need to earn between £12,000 and £15,000pa to live quite comfortably.

Now, I've been trading forex for three years. The first year and a half was on a demo account, this easy I thought, I'm making thousands. I invested £400 and promptly blew my account in a little under two weeks. Why? I knew NOTHING. My leverage was stupidly high, the lot size I was using was too high, I had no idea my emotions would suddenly come into play and effect every decison I made.

So, a year and a half on, demo trading up until then. Reading everything I can. Studying, practicing, re-reading the same books and internet forums. I invest £1000,
"this time I'm ready, this is it, this is the time". I use leverage of 1:100 and a lot size of 0.2. Careful money management is my plan. Don't run before you can walk. Start slow this isn't get rich quick. Build on this capital now until I can make consistent profits. I have a tested system and strategy. I have a trading plan. I know what times suit me and what times don't. I know what pairs I'm going to trade.

Everything starts off well, I make a few quid here and a few quid there, at the end of the first week I'm up with consistent profit. I'm using a simple macd crossover on a 5min chart with Heiken Ashi bars for entry and using the H1 for S/R levels. Typically I'll take profit around 5 pips. Why? I don't need to make that much money, this is a business for me, a living, only make what I need. 5 pips, 4 times a day with careful money management was my plan, easy huh! I avoided fundamentals like the plague. The thing I found I was saying was... "why the f**k didn't I leave that trade open? I could've hit my target for the week with that one trade". Never the less, I was making profit... lets not get greedy, take the profit, take the profit, take the profit was my motto. I'm quite an emotional person by nature, I'm not that greedy, in fact I'm quite risk averse. Occasionally the price would go in my favour, I'd take the profit bang on the mark before it turns the other way. "See", I'd say to myself, "imagine if you left that open, then you'd be sorry".

Into the second week and I got greedy, opening a trade against my trading plan, I never should've opened the trade and I got burned, and rightly so. I lose the profit I made the week before. I say to myself, "it's ok it's only the profit from last week" and "we all have to take losses every now and again". I trade without Stop Losses, prefering a mental Stop Loss if you like. I decide when the trade is no longer valid. I go on to make a few consecutive wins that week, enough to keep me in the game!

Third week and it falls apart totally. Monday starts of as usual, a couple of good trades, perhaps could've left the positon open a bit longer but still made some profit. I open a position, the price moves in my favour, I don't take the profit this time too early, before I know it the price is going the other way and I'm down. Closed the trade. I went away from my computer for half an hour or so, come back and low and behold, the price went the way I thought it would. Ok so what do I do next time that happens, hold the trade of course, have confidence in yourself, expect a bit of DD every now and again. The loss was big but not massive, just one of those things I tell myself, emotion, was very negative and I was very pissed off with myself.

A few days later (after two or three small good trades) the same thing happens again, ok this time I'm going to hold it for a bit, grow some balls!! Don't take losses, not everyone has to take losses It's going to turn round and come my way, BANG emotions come flooding in, screaming CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE. I close and make another loss the same size as last week. My account from an intial £1000 from having a high of £1080 inside two weeks, now reads £850.

Ok so what do I do? I know, I've been playing around with Systematic (automated trading using robots) through the broker Alpari. I've had numerous demo accounts and It's been fairly successful. I'll put that £850 into Systematic, sort my automated portfolio out and let some robots trade for me, the demo has been good.

Two days later my account now reads £350.

HELP! I really am stuck for ideas now. Don't get me wrong, I realise £1000 in the grand scheme is nothing. I was not expecting to go full time on £1000 I was using this to get the emotional side of trading with real money.

Are some people just not cut out for trading? If there are any newbies reading this please take this advice. Forex is not easy, emotions are everything in this environment, I underestimated that when I first started. I used to be of the belief that anybody can do anything if they try hard enough. I've been doing this for three years and am still no closer now as to where I was when I blew my first account! Maybe I need to change my strategy, maybe I need to start all over again. Maybe I need to read more books. Maybe I need to control my emotions more. MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE.....

1. Trade real exchange markets
2. Start without leverage

The reason your failing is because your working TOO HARD to avoid the HARD work.

Your ignoring fundamentals because you fear them, your trading thinking 'this is it' because you want easy money... Your an emotional person and you don't use stops? Thats like someone who dies when they fall in water having baths to calm themselves down (If such a person exists)

In trading; You have to go through alot of stages before success; Some go through them fast, others not; Depends on who you are and your mindset. Nothing anyone says can replace you going through the steps; After all, for example, a noob may think trading is easy - And he won't change his mind until he's found out through experience that it isn't.

Trade proper exchange markets and make sure you figure out WHY you should make money before you start; what edge do you have? Why are you going to make money... Saying 'I've got money management isn't enough, nor is buying support' - What is the FUNDAMENTAL reason that your plan is going to make money? If you can answer that you'll 100% Make money. Until then your going to just frustrate yourself trying to answer it quickly - The answer comes from real experience... Not an indicator

As an example; If someone buys stochastics below 10 - Why is this going to work, whats the edge ? I think if they can understand it enough and use it in the correct context, then yes sure it can work... If they genuinely have the ability to be objective about taking advantage of their fundamental reason they are going to win...
One thing is; Common sense - Before opening a trade, ask - Does this make sense? Am i just buying in the middle of nowhere, in a meaningless price movement, or am i being sensible, is this the real market condition i'm with, am i really with the path of resistance, is the market REALLY clear of resistance or am i just pretending JUST incase this trade works, is the news that coming out important or am i just saying its not so that i can place the trade, is this a genuine opportunity or am i just doing it because its exciting...

Common sense before a trade works. I use to lie to myself when i opened a position, i knew i wasn't 'sure' about the trade because the R1 resistance is coming up, but i'd do it anyway, knowing that it MAY repel price because i was greedy... Only when
1. Its common sense; The trade makes sense - If you can't think WHY the trade makes sense, avoid it.
2. You actually think its a good setup, not just doing it because it is a setup, and make sure you understand the difference between a good setup and a pretty setup...

Finally don't be ignorant about the financial world; I haven't met a succesful trader yet who doesn't know what the E-mini S&P500 is, what price the SP500 is, what a options collar is, what the bonds are doing, what EUR/USD is @ ...
You can't close your eyes to the world and hope that with closed eyes and a few bars on an FX chart will make money... because why would that make money - You have the least information in the world... Thats surely a disadvantage - Make sure you are expanding your understanding of the markets across all asset types rather than hiding from hard work by only looking at FX.

 

[GladiatorX]

Say what?

If robots lose you money more quickly... I guess you must be doing the opposite trades and making money quickly ?

 

[Masquerade]

If robots lose you money more quickly... I guess you must be doing the opposite trades and making money quickly ?

*sigh* you didn't read it properly did you?

"All robots will do (if they're doing something wrong) is lose your money quicker than you can."

Run along now.

 

[GladiatorX]

*sigh* you didn't read it properly did you?

"All robots will do (if they're doing something wrong) is lose your money quicker than you can."

Run along now.

Yeah i didn't read it properly. Sorry bud'

 

[Masquerade]

Yeah i didn't read it properly. Sorry bud'

np

 

[virtuos0]

1. Trade real exchange markets
2. Start without leverage

The reason your failing is because your working TOO HARD to avoid the HARD work.

Your ignoring fundamentals because you fear them, your trading thinking 'this is it' because you want easy money... Your an emotional person and you don't use stops? Thats like someone who dies when they fall in water having baths to calm themselves down (If such a person exists)

In trading; You have to go through alot of stages before success; Some go through them fast, others not; Depends on who you are and your mindset. Nothing anyone says can replace you going through the steps; After all, for example, a noob may think trading is easy - And he won't change his mind until he's found out through experience that it isn't.

Trade proper exchange markets and make sure you figure out WHY you should make money before you start; what edge do you have? Why are you going to make money... Saying 'I've got money management isn't enough, nor is buying support' - What is the FUNDAMENTAL reason that your plan is going to make money? If you can answer that you'll 100% Make money. Until then your going to just frustrate yourself trying to answer it quickly - The answer comes from real experience... Not an indicator

As an example; If someone buys stochastics below 10 - Why is this going to work, whats the edge ? I think if they can understand it enough and use it in the correct context, then yes sure it can work... If they genuinely have the ability to be objective about taking advantage of their fundamental reason they are going to win...
One thing is; Common sense - Before opening a trade, ask - Does this make sense? Am i just buying in the middle of nowhere, in a meaningless price movement, or am i being sensible, is this the real market condition i'm with, am i really with the path of resistance, is the market REALLY clear of resistance or am i just pretending JUST incase this trade works, is the news that coming out important or am i just saying its not so that i can place the trade, is this a genuine opportunity or am i just doing it because its exciting...

Common sense before a trade works. I use to lie to myself when i opened a position, i knew i wasn't 'sure' about the trade because the R1 resistance is coming up, but i'd do it anyway, knowing that it MAY repel price because i was greedy... Only when
1. Its common sense; The trade makes sense - If you can't think WHY the trade makes sense, avoid it.
2. You actually think its a good setup, not just doing it because it is a setup, and make sure you understand the difference between a good setup and a pretty setup...

Finally don't be ignorant about the financial world; I haven't met a succesful trader yet who doesn't know what the E-mini S&P500 is, what price the SP500 is, what a options collar is, what the bonds are doing, what EUR/USD is @ ...
You can't close your eyes to the world and hope that with closed eyes and a few bars on an FX chart will make money... because why would that make money - You have the least information in the world... Thats surely a disadvantage - Make sure you are expanding your understanding of the markets across all asset types rather than hiding from hard work by only looking at FX.

Bloody good post.

I would just add that trading your own money is a) A profession and b) A business. As you're studying law I think we can draw an analogy. Imagine you want to become a barrister and run your own Chambers. Do you:

a) Study at Uni, pass the bar, envelop yourself in the world of Law for many years, learn your craft in Court, become a QC, become a circuit judge.. and so on

OR

b) Read "Law for Dummies", spend a few hours on a Law Forum on the internet, rent an office and paint "MY 1ST CHAMBERZ" on the door.

Because at the moment your trying to be a trader via option b)

 

[oildaytrader]

*sigh* you didn't read it properly did you?

"All robots will do (if they're doing something wrong) is lose your money quicker than you can."

Run along now.

Depends on which primitive monkeys designed and coded the robots.Maybe Zupcon sold them from his various internet sites.

Its like saying "fire will burn you ",we still use fire.

Just cause you do not how to design ,code and use them properly ,means everybody will lose money using them.

So everybody will get burnt with fire

 

[GladiatorX]

So everybody will get burnt with fire

Except the robot... because secretely... He is megatron (I had to look that up on google! Christ i'm old)

 

[oildaytrader]

Except the robot... because secretely... He is megatron (I had to look that up on google! Christ i'm old)

I must be 200 years of age then

These darn robots losing all my money

 

[Sang Froid]

Bloody good post.

I would just add that trading your own money is a) A profession and b) A business. As you're studying law I think we can draw an analogy. Imagine you want to become a barrister and run your own Chambers. Do you:

a) Study at Uni, pass the bar, envelop yourself in the world of Law for many years, learn your craft in Court, become a QC, become a circuit judge.. and so on

OR

b) Read "Law for Dummies", spend a few hours on a Law Forum on the internet, rent an office and paint "MY 1ST CHAMBERZ" on the door.

Because at the moment your trying to be a trader via option b)

Very very good point. I've come to the conclusion after reading some of the posts on here that my three years of trading is in fact nothing. Experience and knowledge counts for everything and me reading a few books and posting on an internet forum is shying away from the hard work.

I think I'm going to go back to basics for a while and yes step away from trading for a bit at least. I need to re-evaluate my trading as a whole, the reasons for me doing so and how I'm going to go about it.

One thing is for sure, as someone said earlier, I think I am better suited to higher timeframes which is one thing I'm going to address first.

I feel as though for the last three years I have learned how NOT to trade. I hope I will look back on those years and see them as the most valuable learning experience I could have got. Now it is time for me to learn HOW to trade.

I'd just like to thank everyone here who contributed to this thread. You have no idea how much it has made me reflect on my trading style and really brought me back down to earth.

In one years time from now I would like to think I'd make another thread called:
I'm Nearly in THAT 10% and when I do I'll thank each and every one you.

edit: ok maybe a year is a bit ambitious
edit edit: I just hope some of you are still alive when I do get there, I know how old some of you are already.

 

[zupcon]

Depends on which primitive monkeys designed and coded the robots.Maybe Zupcon sold them from his various internet sites.

I would not sell my random entry robot for all the tea in china !

 

[Black Swan]

You're too immature, you're too needy and if you havn't cracked it after 3 years you're not commited enough. Stop bleating, get trading and stop it with this oft repeated dream of; "I'll get successful enough to give up my day job and concentrate on full time trading..." Want to be a successful full time trader? Then start doing it full time, by that I mean 24/7 total immersion until you get it...

* disclaimer; I make no apologies for the harshness of this post...

 

[sneville]

Yes yes, we all know of the "90% of traders fail" comments, the thing is I really don't want to be one of those. I'm going to be brutally honest about myself here, and what I'd like from people who read this is advice. When I say advice, I mean any advice, even if it's give up. I'm not expecting for 'magic' solve all answers, even if no one reads this I think by writing it down and reading it for myself might help, therapy almost!

First off, let me tell you about my background, this is just so people can get a general idea of why I'm trading and what I'm trying to achieve. I'm 28, and a law graduate who incidentally doesn't work in the law field. I currently work nights in a hotel. The reason I took this job is it fits in perfectly with my trading. I'd like to eventually trade full time from home. That's it, no ifs no buts. Trade full time from home.

You need to be looking for more than 5pips a trade even if you are not greedy.

I'm single, no kids, no mortgage. I've small outgoings, mainly rent and bills.... the usual. In order to make forex my main source of income, I would need to earn between £12,000 and £15,000pa to live quite comfortably.

Now, I've been trading forex for three years. The first year and a half was on a demo account, this easy I thought, I'm making thousands. I invested £400 and promptly blew my account in a little under two weeks. Why? I knew NOTHING. My leverage was stupidly high, the lot size I was using was too high, I had no idea my emotions would suddenly come into play and effect every decison I made.

So, a year and a half on, demo trading up until then. Reading everything I can. Studying, practicing, re-reading the same books and internet forums. I invest £1000,
"this time I'm ready, this is it, this is the time". I use leverage of 1:100 and a lot size of 0.2. Careful money management is my plan. Don't run before you can walk. Start slow this isn't get rich quick. Build on this capital now until I can make consistent profits. I have a tested system and strategy. I have a trading plan. I know what times suit me and what times don't. I know what pairs I'm going to trade.

Everything starts off well, I make a few quid here and a few quid there, at the end of the first week I'm up with consistent profit. I'm using a simple macd crossover on a 5min chart with Heiken Ashi bars for entry and using the H1 for S/R levels. Typically I'll take profit around 5 pips. Why? I don't need to make that much money, this is a business for me, a living, only make what I need. 5 pips, 4 times a day with careful money management was my plan, easy huh! I avoided fundamentals like the plague. The thing I found I was saying was... "why the f**k didn't I leave that trade open? I could've hit my target for the week with that one trade". Never the less, I was making profit... lets not get greedy, take the profit, take the profit, take the profit was my motto. I'm quite an emotional person by nature, I'm not that greedy, in fact I'm quite risk averse. Occasionally the price would go in my favour, I'd take the profit bang on the mark before it turns the other way. "See", I'd say to myself, "imagine if you left that open, then you'd be sorry".

Into the second week and I got greedy, opening a trade against my trading plan, I never should've opened the trade and I got burned, and rightly so. I lose the profit I made the week before. I say to myself, "it's ok it's only the profit from last week" and "we all have to take losses every now and again". I trade without Stop Losses, prefering a mental Stop Loss if you like. I decide when the trade is no longer valid. I go on to make a few consecutive wins that week, enough to keep me in the game!

Third week and it falls apart totally. Monday starts of as usual, a couple of good trades, perhaps could've left the positon open a bit longer but still made some profit. I open a position, the price moves in my favour, I don't take the profit this time too early, before I know it the price is going the other way and I'm down. Closed the trade. I went away from my computer for half an hour or so, come back and low and behold, the price went the way I thought it would. Ok so what do I do next time that happens, hold the trade of course, have confidence in yourself, expect a bit of DD every now and again. The loss was big but not massive, just one of those things I tell myself, emotion, was very negative and I was very pissed off with myself.

A few days later (after two or three small good trades) the same thing happens again, ok this time I'm going to hold it for a bit, grow some balls!! Don't take losses, not everyone has to take losses It's going to turn round and come my way, BANG emotions come flooding in, screaming CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE. I close and make another loss the same size as last week. My account from an intial £1000 from having a high of £1080 inside two weeks, now reads £850.

Ok so what do I do? I know, I've been playing around with Systematic (automated trading using robots) through the broker Alpari. I've had numerous demo accounts and It's been fairly successful. I'll put that £850 into Systematic, sort my automated portfolio out and let some robots trade for me, the demo has been good.

Two days later my account now reads £350.

HELP! I really am stuck for ideas now. Don't get me wrong, I realise £1000 in the grand scheme is nothing. I was not expecting to go full time on £1000 I was using this to get the emotional side of trading with real money.

Are some people just not cut out for trading? If there are any newbies reading this please take this advice. Forex is not easy, emotions are everything in this environment, I underestimated that when I first started. I used to be of the belief that anybody can do anything if they try hard enough. I've been doing this for three years and am still no closer now as to where I was when I blew my first account! Maybe I need to change my strategy, maybe I need to start all over again. Maybe I need to read more books. Maybe I need to control my emotions more. MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE.....

Don’t fund another account you will be throwing your money away, you need to first be certain that you can keep your emotions in check and that your trading plan actually works.

Open a demo account and trade the smallest sizes you can. Reduce the size of the virtual account to the same size as your actual funds. Forget about the money value of the trade measure you’re self in number of pips gained or lost, percentages not profit and loss. Record everything, create a profit and loss chart but replace the money value with the number of pips. Once you can successfully trade the demo account and see your number of pips gained grow continuously then move on to the next stage. DON’T move on to the next stage until you are consistently gaining pips.

Replace the Demo account with a live account trade the smallest size possible on the account. Use stop losses which will “fix” your risk per trade, this should be less than 0.5% of your account. Stick to your trading plan DISIPLINE is everything. If you are not going to stick to it there is no point in having it. Don’t be scared you’re only risking 0.5% of your account for each trade. Keep the same records up to date. Your pip profit and loss chart should look the same as before. If it’s not stop and look what you are doing differently if it is carry on. Once you have consistently done the same as your demo account then increase the size of the trade by a fraction. The amount of money isn’t important the amounts of pips you gain are.