I'm a masochist & it's hurting my trading :(

[Bint_Crusher]

Originally Posted by Masquerade View Post
trading can be pretty damn solitary and i'm aware of the effects when I go out

what effects out of interest?

I also understand the solitary nature of trading, so I tend not to go out. When I do I keep my hood up and my dark glasses on. The only time I lift them is when I see a hot chick enter the bar and I want to eye up her skirt.
Masq, just admit it, like me you are repulsively ugly and are bitterly ashamed of your own reflection.
whistling

 

[Masquerade]

may I ask why you dont want to work for someone else ?

It's more the regimented working schedule and donning a suit being crammed into a train like a sardine every morning that doesn't appeal. It's also a bit irritating when you have management who aren't aware of issues that people lower down know about but are oblivious as they pull rank as they're greater authority. But the main thing is exploitation and earning potentials are higher if you can find something you're good at and implement it.

what effects out of interest?

Just basic conversation skills start to decline. Not to say that i'm some kind of rain man but it starts to feel more awkward than when I go through phases of frequent social contact. Then there's the relating to people, I find their lives somewhat mundane and not interested to hear about their job and I sure as hell don't want to talk about trading/poker or anything like that as I can just see them trying to work out in their head how much I make whilst looking down on me. Also there's the annoying questions i'm sure a lot of people have heard when they do venture on to the topic. Trading's kind of consuming at the moment too so I don't get to go do things that other people would do when they clock out from work and it gives me less to talk about because i'm not going to bore someone about trading, nor want to talk about it to them or the sums involved.

 

[Jason101]

I don’t think full time retail day trading from home is any good for people’s mental health in the most part. There are always the exceptions of course.

Younger people becoming self-centred and cut off. Older family guys ruining relationships with the wife and children.

Dreamers wasting away their hours in the day.


Every now and then I think we all need a reality check on what we are doing and how it is affecting us personally.

Some people can manage I am sure, but for the rest maybe they could look at sharing an office with other traders or other small businesses locally or move up in time frame to daily weekly charts, that way trading can be limited to as little as ½ an hour to a couple of hours a day.

 

[Jason101]

Sometimes I think of trading for some people in the same light as an adult extension of the teenage boy who locks himself away in his room playing nonstop computer/ps2 etc. games.

 

[Masquerade]

Wish me luck!

 

[megamuel]

Good luck! What's new?

 

[MoonRocket]

Good thread, entertaining and some strong opinions.
Just another opinion to throw into the mix.
Boredom is basically lack of discipline.
Watching useless television hour after hour....can't get away from it.
Playing stupid games on the computer...boring.....you know you should be in bed.
Watching the market....boring as all hell....you know there are no real trades coming, but you watch anyway (me too).
It's all the same.... lack of self discipline
Turning off the computer. Go for a run, service the car, mow the old ladies lawn next door.... anything.
A lot of talk about self discipline when it comes to entries, exits and stops but
the ability to walk away is the most underrated of all trading disciplines.
This was taken off T2W and regret I never kept the posters name, so my appology to this member but here is his wisdom.

people couldn't figure out what it was that made him the best.
I figured it out in the first week.
He got in at 7. traded till about 8.30. when the order flow had quietened down he'd get out, up or down, have breakfast and go to the gym. he'd come back about 12, have some lunch, watch some tv and settle in for half an hour in the afternoon. he was gone by 3 most days.
He never let a bad trade ruin his mindset or day or confidence. he brushed it off and carried on the same win or lose.

he didn't change his approach after one bad day, widen his stops, shorten his target to fit the last trade that didn't work out.

to my knowledge last year wasn't great for him but he's yet to blow up and still did over 1/4 of million.

somewhere in that routine, calmness and discipline is the key to making it work.

This guy barely worked 4 hours a day.
Another thing I don't believe having a nasty loss is anything like blowing up the entire account.
A nasty loss makes you think harder. Blowing up the account actually changes you.

 

[Masquerade]

*beep* *beep* I woke from my 2 hour slumber and looked at the clock - it was time. The time was familiar, but these circumstances were not. 4am, a time I used to go to sleep - sometimes falling asleep on my bed in the glow of an FX chart, but today I woke to start my day. The previous night I went to sleep gone 4am and less than 24 hrs later I was getting up. I did learn one new thing from my day: if i'm ever homeless, there's a load of milk just lying outside the shops at about 5am.

So to keep it brief: since September when I last posted I haven't clicked a buy/sell button. In fact, I have probably not logged into my account more than a handful of times. At first, I kept well away from markets/news/prices and my focus turned towards looking at opportunities, I started playing some poker in the bits in between and it became a replacement for trading. I was making similar amounts but for seemingly less risk - however it was draining + the stigma of playing poker and the annoyance of variance which exists in the game. I did make a decent chunk of money from it at the tables and also some which was a by-product. It was entertaining for an hour or so a day, but playing 8hrs was gruelling and I feel there's more of a future for me in trading than poker. I bought the book "zen in the art of archery" as Dashriprock previously suggested to me. I can't say it changed my life, but in my hiatus from trading and some other things going on it made a change to read some differing concepts. I may need to read it again as there could be value in repetition.

The Employment Advice centre
After being nagged for about a year or so about an employment advice centre, I decided to enrol in it for the paltry sum of a £10 returnable deposit. I will add that this isn't run by the government & nothing related to benefits (of which I haven't claimed a penny.) I first had to attend a 2 day course and it was just talking about general job searching/CV's/presentation skills etc. 2 days in a small room with people reeking of desperation made me feel sick and I wanted to be anywhere but there.

After the 2 days, I would meet on a regular basis with a consultant who did in fact help me make a good CV for which i'm quite pleased with. But after a while she had no advice to offer me and recommended I speak with her colleague who would "motivate" me. I attended another seminar but just for the morning - once again it was really basic obvious stuff and the vibe of the people in the room just really dragged me down.

I met her colleague, an elderly gentleman, rather humourless and stern with very traditional values. Every meeting was an interrogation about what i've applied to, what i've done for my job search and the truth was I was doing very little. He'd ask about trading/investing and just say it's all gambling. He could tell I wasn't interested and our sessions became more of an interrogation/psychoanalysis and he commented that if he kept to himself trading in a room for all that time he'd go crazy (I actually don't mind my own company unlike other people.) Sessions turned to me turning up, being interrogated and then told off by him and someone else. I felt like I was back in school and seeing as we weren't going anywhere I told a lie to set me free. We parted ways amicably when I told the centre that I got a job. I didn't but so far as they're concerned I do, I won't be collecting my £10.

The Boiler Room
I was still looking around on the internet at roles, when an Evening Standard was thrown under my nose one day. "Trainee Financial Adviser", I had never really looked into this but I did a quick search about what they were/the pay and it seemed a fairly decent sort of job. I applied and sure enough the following morning I got a call to come for an interview in Bank area.

I met with the man and his colleague and it was then I learned that everyone was self-employed there. The interview went pretty well and I showed off that i'd done some research on the sector which impressed them. I asked if they cold called and I was told it was warm leads. I was a bit sceptical about the role as I left but I was invited for a second interview. I met with 3 people the following week, another £8 to travel into town - I then learnt that I would be cold calling people, not getting a salary and my ethics were firing off alarms when they started asking me about my feelings towards money. I started to think they were glorified telesales people but I still feigned interest.

I was invited to a third interview and told to prepare some things such as how much money I want to make/what sort of house I want to live in/what sort of car/how many holidays I want to take. I really felt like it had scam written all over it and was getting ready to cancel my interview when by a twist of fate they cancelled on me saying they had some exceptional candidates and were no longer recruiting. I'll add on numerous occasions I asked if there was a quota but they said they'd take on as many people as they thought were good - maybe I wasn't money grabbing enough or they were lying. I didn't lose any sleep over it, just annoyed at wasting my time and money to go back and forth for something I had no interest in.

Markets
By this point in time i'd started showing more interest again in the markets and looking at prices. I watched the euro woes persist and it plunge from the highs. Admittedly, I found this frustrating to look at and i'm sure over the last few months I would have doubled my account or come close to it as a result of just selling euro rallies. Fortunately, keeping up to date with things did help me for some of the interviews I went to so all was not lost.

Which brings me to today, last night I went to bed earlier than I have done so since i've been able to walk. My poor lifestyle/sleeping pattern resulted in me lying awake till about 1am. I slept a few hours before I set off on my commute into town. It was the most draining day I can remember and by 3pm I was really feeling my fatigue catch up with me. Not to mention I found the job rather tedious and tiring on the eyes. The more I thought about it, the less attractive it started to appear and I realised how valuable spare time is and thought of the backward bending supply curve. I left feeling shattered and with a throbbing headache and here I am 15 hrs later after sleeping about 2 hrs.

 

[6am]

Not to mention I found the job rather tedious and tiring on the eyes. The more I thought about it, the less attractive it started to appear ...and here I am 15 hrs later

To summarise: you quit your job and returned to trading. Well done. :clap:

 

[Masquerade]

I don't want to go into too much detail on that atm. But no, i'll explain later in the week.

 

[Masquerade]

I can now elaborate on monday seeing as i've burnt my bridges.

Whilst looking around for jobs I saw a position "Junior Market Analyst" and read the spec and said the person must have an interest in the financial markets. It sounded like a good fit for me as I have economics background + interest in markets. I looked at the company and realised it was a well known financial information provider that i've used myself (i'll give you a clue and it's a noise birds make.)

I sent off an application and got an invite to come for an interview. Interview went fairly well but I made a mistake and when they asked me how much I wanted for salary I went in at the lower number on the advert. I knew it was a mistake and should have said it's negotiable. A few days later an email arrived informing me I was invited to a day working in the office and I had to be there for 6am sharp.

I quickly realised the first train leaving my home was at 5.23am and it would take over 40 mins to get there meaning I was going to be late. I looked at alternatives such as getting a night bus into town and getting a train. I considered youth hostels/asking strangers if I could stay at their place and even light heartedly considered taking a sleeping bag and just finding somewhere dry for a few hours. Fortunately, there was one more solution. I woke up at 4am, drove to Euston where I parked the car in a private spot and then took a train to Moorgate getting me into the office about 25 mins before 6am and in before any of the people from the office.

The day was long and certainly dragged at times. I did get sent out to buy someone's lunch for them so I was a bit of an office bitch in that respect. I just got shown around some of things they do; writing reports/making videos. By 2pm I was feeling dead tired as i'd only slept about 2 hrs the night before and sitting in front of 27 screens trying to watch a few of them at the same time was pretty overwhelming. I could have fallen asleep very easily but was trying to stay awake without the aid of caffeine or other stimulants. Around 4pm I was allowed to leave and felt shattered. I bid farewell to the pleasant people i'd met and spent the day with and turned my back.

Leaving the office just felt like relief to be outside and not eating lunch in front of a computer and to have my freedom back. The job hours would be 6am-6pm or 12pm-10pm or there about and pretty intense staring at a screen watching to see if anything happens. I thought more and more about if I wanted to do that job, how long would it take me to go crazy and what the minimum sum of money I would need in order to move closer enabling me to turn a 90 min commute into <30 mins.

Today I got some good news: they offered me the job. One of the only offers i've been made in a long time. The only problem is they offered me the minimum from the ad (the sum I said I was looking for in the interview which was a downfall) I explained the circumstances and how the salary was not enough to move closer and that I need to come in for after 6am if I commute from home. They weren't budging so I just thanked them for the opportunity and wished them a merry xmas. I'm not 100% sure it was the right move, but I think there were some very good reasons not to do it.

I'm happy to take any questions if anyone wants to know more about the company/offices. As for my next step.....

 

[6am]

How much did they offer you?

 

[Bint_Crusher]

You just enjoyed being treated like the office BITCH for the day. Perhaps you should become a BROKER instead.

 

[Masquerade]

How much did they offer you?

The offer was £20k. Keep in mind that I need to get in for 6am. It's not enough to move into town with and it's really not viable to keep driving into town every day. Also £20k isn't enough to fund a coke addiction for the long intense days. I haven't worked out the hourly but i'm pretty sure it's not much better than stacking shelves in Sainsburys

 

[G.O.A.T]

Jeez Masq, waddya got a nose like an Aardvark

 

[Masquerade]

Not yet, job doesn't pay enough

 

[MoonRocket]

Nothing p!sses me off more than when you go for a job and they ask, what do you want to be paid....Yeh mate, a million dollars a year mate, what in hell do you want me to say.... Mate.

Is that 20K per year for a 12 hour day? They're gota be kidding

Masq.....Since you don't work, how did you get your trading account funded in the first place?

 

[Masquerade]

In fairness the ad did say "20-30k depending on experience." I should have answered their question saying it's negotiable but stupidly said £20k thinking it'd increase my chances of getting the job and then negotiate from there. I told them today that at the time they asked me in the interview I didn't realise the underground started so late so hadn't factored in that moving into town was pretty much a necessity to taking the role. I really thought the underground did start earlier and it was then that I was actually going to consider telling them I couldn't make the 6am start but I did find a way around it. So they didn't budge and frankly they probably had some other monkey to take it for £20k so I just said thanks and finished it.

They offered me £20k/year and that's working 6am - 6pm or 12pm - 10pm. They alternate people around every now and then so you might do a few months on the 6am shift and then switch to 12pm. The whole time is pretty much spent sitting in front of computers writing reports and watching bloomberg/reuters/dow and other feeds, there isn't exactly much job variety and lunch breaks don't seem to exist. I can't really see many **** ups at lunch time on sunny afternoons happening. The morning session's the worst as there's only 4 people in the office. In the afternoon it gets busier and they have more people on the shift so there is a little more flexibility in getting someone to cover you for 10 mins.

I don't want to be too greedy, but frankly £20k was taking the **** for how much the job was asking of me. The first person I met who always is first to the office said to me at the beginning "this job asks a lot". He gets up just after 4am, is in work before 6am, he'll stick around to 6pm, go home have something to eat and be in bed by 9pm and repeat. The poor guy used to go to the gym and keep fit when he was working for himself but frankly now he doesn't have time. 2 hours free time after work and spending an hour of it in the gym just doesn't become a priority understandably.

The company has 16,000 subscribers I was told. I don't know how much the feed costs but I imagine it's a few hundred £/month. They employ about 10 analysts, a few senior guys and have some expensive offices in central london. They have the feeds and all that stuff to pay for. But still, I think they really were under-paying their staff for the role they were performing.

 

[Masquerade]

I get the impression that you think you know me. Not many people just show up as new accounts and pretend to know someone so you may as well tell me before your account gets banned.

I thought the book was more about approaching trading with a more zen like attitude. But that can also extend to other aspects in life too which is where I thought he meant I would find it applicable.

Not really sure rejecting the job is the same as rejecting the advice. There was a fundamental logic to my decision and it wasn't an easy decision. I didn't get up at 4am on 2hrs sleep and go to their office with no intention of taking the job. It was a pure financial decision at the end of it and if you're offered a job where you stand to actually lose money as a result of taking it and do so then you're a bigger fool than I.

Thanks for the psychoanalysis stuff, always great to hear from experts in the field about my medical conditions and general welfare. I'll go straight to my GP tomorrow and get fixed up with some anti-psychotics and SSRI's, might even book myself into the Priory as i've suddenly been enlightened by an alleged new person on T2W that i'm "probably severely depressed."

Modafinil good for keeping awake, been meaning to try that stuff but I generally do ok without it. Haven't heard great things about it though. Ritalin's pretty good for the concentration, or at least the kids use it in school for studying.

When I was at the interview I asked if there was a training or anything like that and they said no. They just expect people to try figure out what sort of info they're trying to push out. It's a little worrying really that such a name has so few experienced/qualified people behind the product.

So you think I should go to my GP and maybe go to the Priory rather than looking for a job?

 

[Kitchen Sink]

I instantly knew you were depressed when I saw this thread. I also think you may have a bad back and a broken metatarsal in your right foot.

After reviewing your style of writing, I also think you have a nasty case of gonorrhea.