Crime and punishment

Pat494 said:
Is there some form of retribution that would deter these suicide attacks ? By a quick death the cowards escape punishment.
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A christian funeral so they dont get to fulfill their beliefs of 50 virgins etc..

Name and bury them as coward 1-2 and 3, dont release their names. ??
 
mike. said:
A christian funeral so they dont get to fulfill their beliefs of 50 virgins etc..

Name and bury them as coward 1-2 and 3, dont release their names. ??
Click to expand...

It's not so long ago that the politically correct brigade refused to call it for what it is regarding the child exploitation/ grooming abuse episodes up and down the country.

Asian grooming gangs exploiting young white females. None of this is coincidental. Asian males think white girls are trash, and their own don't fare much better.
 
counter_violent said:
It's not so long ago that the politically correct brigade refused to call it for what it is regarding the child exploitation/ grooming abuse episodes up and down the country.

Asian grooming gangs exploiting young white females. None of this is coincidental. Asian males think white girls are trash, and their own don't fare much better.
Click to expand...

There's a disgusting case going on at the moment over in sunderland...
young mother was gang raped whereby forensic evidence was collected and confirmed it, many witnesses that that have information were not questioned...a massive cover up by police for some unknown reason and yes it concerned five or six syrian and iraqi immigrants..The case was dropped....... Like or loath Tommy Robbinson, But listen what he has to say....


 
The terrorists want to die but even those idiots would like a quick one. Is this the answer. Any caught alive could have a regular torture session administered by the victims as the judge directs ? Maybe once a week until they crave forgiveness.
Let's get real. They are human too. A quick out is too good for them. Wire up their private parts and give the controls to any victims that want to turn the knob.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
 
I think a massive police training program will go underway to arm officers, I know police dont want to be armed due to IPCC probes, but a proper training program where officers are arms trained coupled with body cameras for evidence must be the way forward.
 
They keep shooting the wrong people. A boy with an airgun got shot a few years ago in Cornwall. Surely a trained marksman with binos could see he posed little threat, that Brazilian on the underground, the man in the mini who looked like a criminal, the man with a chair leg ? I mean they are too trigger happy.
 
The difference between proper training and just carrying a gun....it needs to be a pass fail program....Psychologically some police officers will never be cut out to make the right decisions in the heat of the moment especially when confronted with violence...I heard one officer took on all three terrorists with his baton, Had he been armed then the outcome would be totally different, But as you mention Pat, the policy has to change regarding those who pose little threat....And yes, ive been involved with guns from a very early age, from air guns to high powered rifles never had a near accident or anything, its all in the training.
 
I would like to see 'A right to bear arms' enshrined in law - whereby law abiding citizens would be permitted to carry concealed weapons for protection. I think the US model is too permissive - more thorough vetting, licensing and training would be required to filter out the nut jobs. If national service was re-introduced, this vetting and training could be carried out widely and efficiently. We should be able to take effective responsibility for our safety and our families safety and not have to rely on the security services - who probably won't be there at that critical moment.
 
cbrads said:
I would like to see 'A right to bear arms' enshrined in law - whereby law abiding citizens would be permitted to carry concealed weapons for protection. I think the US model is too permissive - more thorough vetting, licensing and training would be required to filter out the nut jobs. If national service was re-introduced, this vetting and training could be carried out widely and efficiently. We should be able to take effective responsibility for our safety and our families safety and not have to rely on the security services - who probably won't be there at that critical moment.
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It would never work, killings would tenfold overnight....what about the guy outside the pub who starts the fight ? pulls a gun when getting beat...
 
Could bring back hanging but I don't think it would deter them.
They need to catch the shadowy figures who recruit the half wits to carry out these senseless attacks. Will Friday's attacks achieve anything ? No.

Nobody seemed to be enthusiastic about collective guilt. Their local Mosque should pay compensation to the victims even if it means selling the place. But it would incentivise the local leaders to pay more attention to the wilder ones.

Letting the victims loose on them for vengeance is wholly unchristian but may be effective. Can't see the Arch dope agreeing though.

I think we can expect the usual platitudes and weasel words.
 
We can crack down on our freedoms. Put everyone under surveillance. Cameras everywhere. "National security cards". "Let me see your papers" type of thing.

Thats no solution. Not in the free world anyway.

The real solution is....we must include everyone in the World. Give everyone an equal chance at prosperity, a good life, a nice safe home.

Way too much disparity ...give everyone hope a chance to make a better life with hard work.

Get rid of the hopelessness that plagues most of the World.

Easier said than done though.
 
Out of the whole wide World how many have access an even chance of trading the World's exchanges??

I don't know but I would bet not many.
 
Many people love the ideas of liberalism but generally regret trying to implement them.
Have to live life as it is. Terrorist attacks are likely to be a weekly event rather than the current monthly. Dropping to daily even. Many immigrants would rather be dead than live in this society it seems. We should stop all muslim immigration immediately. The feeble minded politicians just can't grasp the reality of the situation.
 
Pat494 said:
Could bring back hanging but I don't think it would deter them.
They need to catch the shadowy figures who recruit the half wits to carry out these senseless attacks. Will Friday's attacks achieve anything ? No.

Nobody seemed to be enthusiastic about collective guilt. Their local Mosque should pay compensation to the victims even if it means selling the place. But it would incentivise the local leaders to pay more attention to the wilder ones.

Letting the victims loose on them for vengeance is wholly unchristian but may be effective. Can't see the Arch dope agreeing though.

I think we can expect the usual platitudes and weasel words.
Click to expand...


Pat matey, you know I think highly of your pov but in this case you are very wide off the mark if I may say so.

These suicidal terrorists, low lives, wannabee somebody but in reality mr nobodies, not jihadees or martyrs just simple mindless pieces of sh1t.

What punishment do you think would be appropriate for suicidal maniac who is prepared to die?

Their families and friends don't always know. They may be sympathisers but having an opinion is not the same as stabbing a defenseless person 10 times. You can't stop an ideology or spoken word with bullets. You'll simply drive them all underground and give them greater intensity for more barbarous acts of atrocious sickening violence.

We have millions of refugees and displaced people along with millions more living in bombed out countries with infrastructure ruined, run by militias and pockets of vested interests playing power games with AK47s policing their little territories.

The situation is dire. We have created a hot bed of 'political' terrorist breeding ground.

As Trump says stop them all from coming over here. That's one idea but how can we do that when we spend 80% destroying these countries and 20% trying to rebuild them. We can't rebuild them because they don't have the money to pay for the rebuild so we do nothing. BUT we still want their oil and resources.

Read this piece of news hitting the headlines. Saudi-Led Alliance Moves to Isolate Qatar Over Iran Tensions You've got to ask why? Why now? So soon after Trump's visit.

Article says - Four Arab countries led by Saudi Arabia cut diplomatic ties with Qatar and moved to close off access to the Gulf country, escalating a crisis that started over its relationship with Iran and its support of the Muslim Brotherhood.

I'm sure sooner or later a connection will be established between US, EU and UK attacks and a case built to attack Iran.

Qatar is going to be a bit of an issue as they have considerable investments in the UK with their key flag ship being the Shard building. I don't know perhaps it's the beginning of some moves to change their leadership by planting one that's more friendly to ours.

Been saying this for some time only because I've heard Bush state US policy re: Axis of Evil after 9/11. 9/11 should have stopped after Afghanistan and focused on capturing culprit Osama Ladin. It didn't.

War on Terror they said. War on Terror creates more terrorists as it kills and destroys innocent lives. It's not working is it?

Instead the terrorists of today have grown up in those 15 years from a young tender age being indoctrinated by various people in turning them into political weapons.

Maybe the intention is to create more terrorist to justify defense spending. Russia and China and EU at peace and business seems to be thriving. Arms industry in US and UK must be wondering where the next order is going to come from. A little bit of hope from Saudies to Trump as they spend few billion to kick Iranian ass. What then? Korea? It's a tough business trying to kill people.

Simply that based on past experience we are so much better at making enemies out of our friends as our track record is not so good.

fwiw Great Britain was great in building nations, states and trade routes & systems using soft power and diplomacy. These days we are simply yanks side kick following them into all kinds of daft battles that don't seem to end well. Considering we have established a military base in Bahrain, I don't see these strategic developments ending well.


fwiw I think your crime and punishment approach is very narrow and needs to be broadened to capture the bigger issues.
 
Always glad to hear your views m8, a bit on the optimistic side usually.
Perhaps we should be looking forward with pleasure as the attacks intensify. Our great politicians will do some more hand wringing and the usual platitudes before retiring off to the leafy suburbs, I expect.
The UK prison system shows the failure of the " pie in the sky " optimism. It was about 70% that go back to prison. Probably about the same.
Some argue that only reformed characters should be allowed out after serious crimes. Others would like an annual cull of the extra stubborn and the rest would fall into line. Aaah horrific I hear you bleat ! Oh yes. The soft touch has surely run its course and shown itself to be a useless waste of money and time. Maybe that is another reason Putin is gaining in popularity. He won't put up with the professional criminal attitude our soppy do-gooders have been attempting for the last 150 years. I wish they had more success to show.

The human being is a nasty beast.
 
Atilla said:
. . .Their families and friends don't always know. They may be sympathisers but having an opinion is not the same as stabbing a defenseless person 10 times. You can't stop an ideology or spoken word with bullets. You'll simply drive them all underground and give them greater intensity for more barbarous acts of atrocious sickening violence. . .
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Agreed Atilla. (There's a worrying trend developing here!)

Moreover, if you can't stop 'em with bullets, you certainly can't stop 'em with Trident. Spending billions on nuclear weapons that no sane person (i.e. Mrs. May or Mr. Corbyn) will ever use - to combat extremists whose weapons of choice are van rentals and kitchen knives - is a complete waste of time and an unforgivable waste of money. Ditch Trident and divert the money saved into education to help stop the terrorists being radicalized in the first place and, additionally, increase Police numbers and throw truck loads at the security forces and cyber crime specialists who can monitor what's going on online. Of course there will always be one or two who get through the net, but surely this is a much better use of the money to fight the very real threat that exists on our streets today - rather than the imagined threat that may never materialize (and hopefully won't) in the future.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
Agreed Atilla. (There's a worrying trend developing here!)

Moreover, if you can't stop 'em with bullets, you certainly can't stop 'em with Trident. Spending billions on nuclear weapons that no sane person (i.e. Mrs. May or Mr. Corbyn) will ever use - to combat extremists whose weapons of choice are van rentals and kitchen knives - is a complete waste of time and an unforgivable waste of money. Ditch Trident and divert the money saved into education to help stop the terrorists being radicalized in the first place and, additionally, increase Police numbers and throw truck loads at the security forces and cyber crime specialists who can monitor what's going on online. Of course there will always be one or two who get through the net, but surely this is a much better use of the money to fight the very real threat that exists on our streets today - rather than the imagined threat that may never materialize (and hopefully won't) in the future.
Tim.
Click to expand...

I wasn't 100% on nuclear disarmament but after debate and recent events I am with increasing conviction it's the right way forward.

Do not feel we face any threat for any country. World order has changed. Globalisation means people mix and live free.

Is there a chance we can become a target for an aggressor in the future? Maybe but why or how I can't imagine. Moreover, chemical weapons and diseases is the future weapon of choice. It means when you terminate any country or race we'll have the antidote and keep the infrastructure. I know that sounds sick but think about it. :rolleyes:

Eitherway, with 1.5% of nuclear war heads the chance of us surviving an exchange with any other is minimal if any.

Other countries will come to realise the same imo. Having them makes one a target. Some deterrence. :whistling
 
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