Cashmaster PIE

[scaldedcat]

Hi Beachbouy, good to hear you have not taken a beating at least.

But I don't know if you have seen a video that has been put out by Glynn from what I can tell only in the last month or two. It goes for about six minutes but in it he still makes pains to say that they don't care if the market goes "up, down or sideways, we still make money".

In fact he points out that they have made more in some of the more turbulent periods due to their being more good opportunities.

Reading what you say and Simon, that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case.

 

[roy105lond]

Not too good for me. Still in profit by about 5% over the nine months but a hairy day today. With hindsight, I think I was more aggressive with the system than I should have been. I won't make the same mistake again. Expensive lesson learned.

It's depressing that after all those months of gains, nearly wiped out in one foul swoop. To sell again to recoup losses would require a lot of guts. We weren't to know that the Chinese government would cut their rates today so the buyers are back in the market.

Have you thought about buying a call option so that your risk is predetermined rather than untold losses should the crash resume in the next few months?

 

[Beachbuoy]

I have looked at that but it seems to me that the potential profit is small using that approach. It would take a lot of money turnover to make regular small amounts. I'm prepared to be persuaded otherwise!

 

[roy105lond]

I have looked at that but it seems to me that the potential profit is small using that approach. It would take a lot of money turnover to make regular small amounts. I'm prepared to be persuaded otherwise!

Hi, just an idea:

I was thinking buying 2-3 month OTM call or put options, bought and held based on oversold or overbought indicators such as the RSI or stochastic. Maximum potential loss is predetermined and potential gain on the upside is unlimited when buying OTM calls and very high when buying OTM puts, especially as I think we will get a short term rebound but eventual continuation of the bearish long term as every major country is drowning in debt and there's only so much money printing the central banks can do to save the markets.

 

[Beachbuoy]

Hi, just an idea:

I was thinking buying 2-3 month OTM call or put options, bought and held based on oversold or overbought indicators such as the RSI or stochastic. Maximum potential loss is predetermined and potential gain on the upside is unlimited when buying OTM calls and very high when buying OTM puts, especially as I think we will get a short term rebound but eventual continuation of the bearish long term as every major country is drowning in debt and there's only so much money printing the central banks can do to save the markets.

Thanks, Roy, but I'm not going to be a great technical analyst, I'm afraid. The old maths skills aren't good enough and the technical analysts whose articles I have read often seem to contradict each other.
.
Besides, I have read articles in the last few months by commentators that I respect and they warned of the drop. I just didn't believe it would be so deep.
I like the concept behind your suggestion and I'd be interested in hearing how you get on. I think that the PIE system used to do a combination of bets on both ends of the market.
Right now, I'm licking my wounds. Will probably give it one more try if only because I spent so much on the course in the first place. This time I think I will be looking for no more than £350 profit per month per £20k bank. I know that such a target would be a high risk to profit ratio for some people but it's probably achievable as long as we don't get a Black Monday every year!

 

[Becks100]

Hi,

I've been thinking about going on the PIE course but a few things have put me off recently, mainly the hype and this so called hedge for getting out of a mess when things go wrong.

I don't believe anyone who says trading options is risk free and by the sound of things on this board PIE isn't a sure fire winner when markets crash. I just hope there aren't too many people out there who are suffering big losses.

I'm wondering if anyone on this board who is thinking of cutting their losses on PIE wishes to sell me their manual?

If anyone is interested, please get in touch.

Becky

 

[scaldedcat]

Hi Beachbouy, I first heard about PIE from the Cashmaster review website about 3 yrs ago. The guy who runs /owns the site, Grahame, has always come across as an honest guy, and when he reviewed PIE, it seemed again like an honest review. He has done numerous ones over the last few years where he has found it to be the perfect product.

I wrote to him, along with a lot of other people apparently, asking how he went during this latest big crash in the markets. This was his reply:

PIE
Update



I'm sure you noticed that on Monday this week the stock markets across the world crashed as a knock on effect of the Chinese stock market falling through the floor.



£74 billion was wiped off the FTSE100 in one day which was the biggest loss in over six years.



Naturally I had a few e-mails from readers asking how I did with the PIE trading strategy so I thought I'd share my experience with you.



I've been trading the strategy for three and a half years now and in all that time it's worked exactly as it was designed to work. It made a profit every month with only ten minutes effort on my part.



I've always known that the strategy was designed specifically to provide a monthly income, with next to no work, but more importantly keeping my capital safe. Stock market crashes, or 'black swan' events, don't happen very often but the strategy was designed with the possibility of these things happening already built into it.



And so when the stock market crashed on Monday, I had my first taste of how resilient the strategy is. This was the first time, for me at least, that I had been trading PIE through a crash so it was an interesting experience.



I already suspected something might be amiss on the Friday. To trade PIE, you're advised to just keep an eye on the market... no chart watching, just notice where it is when it's mentioned on the news or check the price on your phone or online once a day. For me, I watch the news every day anyway and they always look at the market at some point in the business news so I'm in the habit of knowing at least roughly where the FTSE is at. On Friday, there was a sharp drop on the FTSE. In fact, it had been slowly falling for a couple of weeks but particularly so on Friday so I checked to see what was going on and read about the worries in China.



So, on Monday morning, I checked my phone at around 8.30 and saw that it had opened even lower and was falling fast. I logged into my trading account (from my bed) and implemented the first part of the strategy to protect my positions. My wife asked me what I was doing as, although she knows I trade PIE, she'd never actually seen me do anything with it. I told her that the stock market was crashing so I was just going to make some money. She smiled and carried on with her day. I got up, went downstairs and watched Match of the Day over breakfast... then got on with my day.



I checked the news at the end of the day to discover the £74 billion in losses.



On Tuesday morning, once the dust had settled, I didn't get up until gone 9am (it's the school holidays so no school run for me) and went online after breakfast to implement the second stage of the strategy. At a leisurely pace, no panic buying/selling for me, I made another 4.9% profit on my account.



Yes... I made money out of the stock market crash.



This is the most ridiculously brilliant method of making money I've ever seen. I've survived my first stock market crash and come out the other side with a profit. And I didn't even break a sweat.



So that was it. Probably the most exciting time I've had with PIE because I actually had to do something for once. I'll probably have to wait a few more years before I get to do that again but in the meantime, I'll be pocketing the profits like clockwork... with 10 minutes work a month"


Just can't get my head around how he seems to continue to find the whole 10 mins a month easy to do and now to get through a crash not just unscathed but with a nice profit.

As I said, Grahame has always come across as a very honest reviewer, panning poor services when required and to me I had always gone to his site first when I was looking for any info on a particular service or product. And I have never heard any criticisms of his site previously.

I have had a number of email interactions with him regarding PIE and the difference some people are getting compared to him. He has always been happy to reply, and says he just uses the product in it's basic form to make his profits.

Anyway, just thought I'd post his reply regarding the crash, I'm further away from making a decision about purchase then I ever was. I don't believe he is a stooge or anything like that for PIE, but I don't understand how he finds it so easy, when clearly it seems like it is anything but.

Anyway, good luck and I hope things improve for you.

 

[Traders Bulletin]

Hi All,

I’ve been away on the family holiday for the last 2 weeks.

Dodgy internet and Black Monday is not conducive to a very relaxing break!

I've posted this on the TradersBulletin site but wanted to add it here too.

So the good news first, I closed my August trades for profits.

The DAX trade did great;

Based on £4000 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the DAX trade, this equates to a 7.42% return.

The FTSE return however was again disappointingly low.

Personally I only placed the FTSE trade at the minimum stakes so as to keep an accurate track record and increased my stake on the DAX.

Based on £3500 pot staking £10 per point (this is the recommendation from Glynn) on the FTSE trade, this equates to a 0.97% return.

So that was the good news….

My September positions didn’t fair so well and I ended up having to close them both.

Because I spread bet the PIE strategy, rather than trade the options directly, when I close the trades I take the loss and have to wait for my hedge trade to close before I can recoup this.

My DAX trade cost me a whopping 35.33% based on a £10 stake and a £4000 pot.

My FTSE trade 12.49% based on a £10 stake a £3500 trading pot.

I then proceeded to hedge these trades on the Friday before black Monday.

At this time the options available on the IG platform were limited and I ended up taking an October position that is a bit tighter than I wanted and needed to stake approximately double my normal stake to completely hedge the loss.

This involved me having to pump more funds into the account to cover the increased margin for the larger stake.

With hindsight, if I had waited before placing my hedge trade (seeing as the trade i wanted to take wasn’t available) I could have got in at a much better position after the blood bath that was Black Monday, but at the time I wanted to get the hedge trades on and as we had already seen significant moves down, felt it was a good opportunity to get back in.

I'm afraid my crystal ball didn't tell me something was amiss and in any case the strategy is to hedge if you need to pull your trades, so this is what I did.

Then on Monday I received a margin call as the prices started falling through the floor.

To be far this was my fault for not holding enough funds in the account to cover the increased stake and the big moves the market was experiencing, but it was still an uncomfortable period, having just closed my September trades for a loss, to see my hedge trade going the same way, for potentially even greater losses.

As it stands at the moment my hedge trade is down, but looking ok and we will have to wait to see if it turns out to be a good decision or not, but even with my experience of PIE (and the profits I’ve already racked up) and my experience of trading in general, having to hedge the hedge would be a very tough decision to have to make and not one I would take lightly.

I do think it’s important to realise that the size of the moves we’ve had is very rare, the DAX dropped 20.76% in August, but these black swan events will happen and we have to know how we deal with them when they do.

I have had to hedge a trade once before in the 18 months or so that I’ve been trading PIE and it was a much simpler affair.

The difference this time was it was very early in the trades life and the markets we’re making very big, fast moves, this combination is the worst case scenario for PIE.

I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t surprised by the size of the loss and I hadn’t expected to be increasing my stake on the hedge trade to cover this, as I hadn’t had to do this in the past, however I am confident in the approach and that if my hedge trade comes off, I will recoup the loss by the end of next month.

The most important thing is to make sure you are not to greedy and allow enough margin in your account so you would be comfortable hedging the hedge trade if necessary.

Start small and reinvest your profits.

Regards,

Mark

 

[scaldedcat]

Wow, what a wild ride. But thanks for the info Mark, and again it seems very different to the way Grahame says he dealt with the crash.

 

[scaldedcat]

Becks100, it's nothing to do with me either way, but I have got as far as providing my details and signing a non-disclosure document.

I think if anyone was to start selling their information or even sharing it, they could be in a bit of trouble if they find out.

I have heard they take the confidentiality of their system very seriously.

 

[Traders Bulletin]

Wow, what a wild ride. But thanks for the info Mark, and again it seems very different to the way Grahame says he dealt with the crash.

Managing the trades didn't take me long and I was probably in my PJ's at some point too, or I could paint a picture about coming in from the pool, when in truth it actually rained quite a lot whilst we were away!

The issue isn't the time it takes as I've always set alerts on my spreadbet account and get an email if the price breaks through a level where I feel I need to be watching it.

The problem comes when you've watched 35% of your pot disappear (for me this was at least profits) and then watching you hedge trade follow a similar pattern. There is no doubt this is more than a little unnerving.

As it stands now my hedge trades are looking pretty good and the strategy may well prove itself again to be successful and I am definitely still a fan, I just don't want to paint a picture that it was all stress free plain sailing.


Regards

Mark

 

[Becks100]

I should think think people are entitled to sell their manual if they are giving up on PIE regardless.

I've had a couple of people contact me who seem only too happy to sell, which is a little concerning when you consider that PIE appears to be the best thing since sliced bread, well according to some people anyway.

Becks100, it's nothing to do with me either way, but I have got as far as providing my details and signing a non-disclosure document.

I think if anyone was to start selling their information or even sharing it, they could be in a bit of trouble if they find out.

I have heard they take the confidentiality of their system very seriously.

 

[scaldedcat]

Again Becks nothing to do with me, but I have signed a non-disclosure document with them, and that means if I buy it, it's for me only. Not to pass on to friends or anyone else.

If I do buy and don't like it or for some other reason just can't get it to work, the disclosure document is still in place and I am legally bound not to sell it or even give it away. Just because you give up on it, doesn't change the importance of the document you have signed.

As I said, I have no affiliation with these guys, and this is why it has taken me so long to make a decision. I know if I do buy it, that is it. However they still advertise that they are happy to help.

But I agree with you that it is a bit concerning if there are a number of people unhappy enough to want to sell or get something back from their purchase. I would just tread carefully with anyone wanting to sell, the document is legally binding.

 

[Porkpie]

I have visted the tradersbulletin site as posted by scaldecat and it looks like the PIE publisher is ramping the product and I wonder if Mark Rose and his company benefits from this ££££ ???

I gave Paul and Glynn permission to use my postings including my monthly trading results in their marketing material, but that didn't extend to somone called Mark Rose at what appears to be the publisher Thames Publishing copying details of my postings on this board without having the courtesy of asking my permission.

In addition he is blatantly telling lies in his post of 27th January 2015 when he made this comment:

"And for the eagle eyed among you, the small loss in Feb 13 was down to human error, rather than the system not working!"
http://www.tradersbulletin.co.uk/no-drawdown-strategy-review#comments

and the 20th Feb:
"...but I think it was a simple mathematical error when calculating the stake for the hedge trade, which meant it didn’t quite hedge the whole trade."

I have pointed out to Mark Rose that it WAS NOT human error or a 'mis-calculation', but the result of having to hedge the one trade that went badly wrong that month which wiped out my entire profits for that month and took me 2 months to recover the loss.

Posting blatant lies like this is deliberately misleading people for which I do not wish to be associated with. I wonder what the Financial Services Authority would say about the matter?

I made several trades with contracts due to expire in Feb 13 and all but one made a profit. The trade I got wrong I therefore had to close out to prevent a potential bigger loss and naturally I made a loss on that 1 trade which gave me the £-252 loss overall for the month. The resulting 'hedge' is a new, entirely seperate trade to make up for the loss which I duly applied as per the manual, but that trade itself didn't expire until the following month and as such could only be reported in my figures for the month in which it expired.

I am a qualified auditor and if I was a company reporting my trading figures, they would be signed off as 'giving a true and fair view' of the state of my affairs. If I was to deploy some 'createive accounting' techniques in masking the loss until the hedge trade expired, the accounts would not be approved.

I have asked Mark to delete all references to copies of my trades and postings and the lie, but as yet he hasn't bothered to either reply or approve my postings, despite approving one that was made after my first contacting him!

I also pointed out that some other PIE traders who have contacted me via this forum got their fingers badly burnt last year when they had to deploy the hedge to get out of trouble as Mark details, so hedging is not all plain sailing as some people might have you believe. I personally go out of my way to avoid having to hedge my trades

Maybe Mark Rose is on some kind of commission, so it would be in his best interests to gloss over the truth.

P.I.E does work if used sensibly, but as a result of what one idiot has done means I am now asking the P.I.E owners to remove all my postings and endorsements from their website and all their marketing material.

Caveat emptor
and the odd cowboy

Sorry to come back and to see Mark Rose joining the thread. People should know that Simon is correct. I remember the comments with Simon's results displayed on tradersbulletin. Unbelievable that you did not even write them Simon! I also wrote about my initial reservations about PIE which were on Mark's site for a few days before he deleted them. Not ethical behaviour is it Mark?

If anybody is buying PIE, please do not buy from Mark Rose. Despicable unethical behaviour. This thread is for Traders and not marketeers, especially not Internet Marketers who deceive and lie.

 

[Becks100]

My sentiments exactly Porkpie. I don't trust Mark Rose or anything his company says, he's just a cocky arrogant sod and I wish he'd just p*** off and stay on his own site.

I've now had three people offering to sell me their PIE manual but one of them seems to be wanting to recoup most of the cost of the course he attended

 

[Beachbuoy]

It might be of interest to some of you to know what has happened to my account recently. Just before the most recent drop in the ftse, one of my outstanding trades closed for a small profit. This was lucky because shortly afterwards came the drop to about 5900. This was the challenge point for one of my two remaining trades and so I hedged out of it. This was much less traumatic than what happened a month or so earlier because I now had more margin and funds and was able to cope fairly easily and hopefully profitably when the hedge expires successfully. It makes me even more convinced that the key to this system is to stick with a low margin and plenty in the bank for the really bad times. I honestly believe that a 20% return can only be achieved if you are prepared to add extra funds if a black swan event occurs. A target of 10% on a deposited fund is much more realistic. And I would think is also quite acceptable.

 

[mrmcrose]

Well I got away with it, but still think it was the wrong decision!

After the heavy losses from my September trades my hedge trades have now closed and recouped the profits.

That said I’m still going to record them on tradersbulletin as losses, or at least as partial losses.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Becks100]

Just to avoid any confusion, Mark Rose from the publishing company of PIE is now using two usernames on here: Traders Bulletin and mrmcrose. Wonder if he's been posting and answering his own questions on his 'impartial' PIE review website?

The fact that he was clearly rumbled as a liar and someone who can't be trusted obviously has nothing to do with it ��
Perhaps he should stay on his own website as he just makes a fool of himself on here.

Happy New Year the rest of you out there.

 

[scaldedcat]

Thanks for the info Becks. Can't bloody trust anyone online, seems like everyone seems to be in someone else's pocket. Hard to know who to believe.

I personally didn't purchase PIE as I was still sending through emails to them and I think they may have got sick of me and I haven't heard from them for a while. Being a pensioner over here in Australia, I don't have a lot to invest, but what I do have is very important to me so I have to get it right.

Are you still using PIE Becks if so how are you doing? If not, do you have any recommendations as to a safer investment strategy?

Cheers and Happy New Year!

 

[Becks100]

Hello Scaldecat,

I've only been running the PIE strategy for 2 months now, but pleased to report that I have earned just above 2% in that period.

I'd didn't go on the course. I put feelers out on this board asking if anyone wanted to sell me their manual and in the end I had 4 offers. Bought it of a chap who had given up on it and lost money with the big drops in the FTSE and DAX.

What I would say is that if you want no risk, then this isn't for you. Trading options, regardless of what the PIE creators and Mark Rose say is not without risk and if you want a safe investment, then look elsewhere. Stay clear of spread betting as well.

The manual states that you should be looking to start with a minimum bank of £10k, so again if your funds are limited and baring in mind the extortionate cost of the course itself at £3k, you have to ask yourself how long it would take you to repay the cost of the course from the profits

Best wishes,
Becky