Cashmaster PIE

[danjuma]

Danjuma did you manage to start paper trading? which platform are you using for paper trading. I have recently read the ebook and was looking to paper trade it myself.

Interactive Brokers

 

[minihat]

Having read through all the posts, Im more confused than ever about PIE. Obviously the sales letter is very compelling but quite a few things jumped out at me on this thread. Especially


1."Market conditions at the moment make the method a lot more vulnerable to the scenario you speak of so one cannot follow the original method."
Is the method no longer working? Changed?

2."I was disappointed with this element of the course as it did not take into consideration all market conditions. And you have to be a little creative to reduce the potential results of 'worst case scenario'."
Is it not a stict follow the rules system?

3."The 1.5-2% per month is easily obtainable, although when entering the trade the risk is undefined and theoretically virtually unlimited."
I thought your capital was never at risk? But someone is saying the risk is theoritically unlimited?

4."This is typical of such companies selling very basic courses."
The sales page says it has been developed so it is risk free. Is it just marketing and actually just a very simple options strategy in the publlic domain and carries a certain amount of risk?

Anyone who has the course care to comment. Would be great to have a definitive answer to some of these. From what I have read Simon seems to be the only one making a consistent success of this and has been more than happy to even add to his funds.

If I knew categorically my savings were never at risk and indeed 12%+ per annum was easily achievable I would be on this tomorrow.

Did any of you guys that contemplated joining for so long ever join. If so is it all you had hoped for?

 

[scaldedcat]

Hi minihat, just a quick comment from me as I received notification that someone had posted on this thread.

I have not joined PIE. I have had my finger on the trigger to purchase many times, but for every positive and reassuring comment I could find regarding PIE, I would find an equally disparaging comment which scared me off. The very questions you have posted above are good examples of my concerns.

I am from Australia, so I also have the issues of not actually attending the seminar, but relying solely on the home study course. I don't believe this would be a problem, as it appears that one thing most agree on is that Glynn and I think it's Paul, give great after purchase service.

I will leave it at that and hope you get some post from others who have purchased. I haven't given up on the idea, but being a disabled pensioner, I just can't afford to make the wrong decision.

All the best to you.

 

[minihat]

Thank you for your reply Tim.

Reading the thread initially I felt your concerns echoed mine. It's frustrating to have not been able to find any definitive answers with this anywhere.
I noted Simon who seems to be the only one happy with it and having success, said he lost 0.84% of his bank one month. Not quite risk free but I would actually be ok with this when you know by the end of the year this one loss has been more than covered and you have made 12%+.

I think for me and probably for your self it is the the thought of potentially losing all your savings (capital) on one bad trade. I don't actually think this would be possible mind you, as with a lot of options strategies you can limit yourself to a set risk.

I can only assume the comment regarding "entering the trade, the risk is undefined and theoretically virtually unlimited." is that maybe you have to put two trades on, and during the time between the first and the second, no matter how unlikely, the market could suddenly drop.

Until I can get some definitive answers I probably will not be purchasing either but if I do I will let you know how it all goes.

Kind Regards
Keith

 

[Porkpie]

don't believe this would be a problem, as it appears that one thing most agree on is that Glynn and I think it's Paul, give great after purchase service.

We'll you don't need it I guarantee you. Its such a basic 'system' and I say 'system' very loosely. In comparison with the other options strategy loosely discussed, PIE is an absolute rip off imo.

They will answer your emails of course and apart from that there have been no updates, only to ask you to mention them as IB's when signing up to a certain broker so that they can make commissions from every trade you place! (and their reasoning for this begging is because they need to cover costs on print, paper and postage for any updates they send... what a joke!).

Paul and Glynn have simply seen a gap in the market to teach people, with zero knowledge of options, a very BASIC strategy.

Problem is, only once you buy it and then educate yourself further in options, you'll realise what poor value it is. The thing is, from other literature I have read, the concepts and ideas are not new.

But kudos to Paul and Glyn for identifying a very lucrative product/sales opportunity in a very UN-educated Home Income market. :clap:

 

[Porkpie]

Having read through all the posts, Im more confused than ever about PIE. Obviously the sales letter is very compelling but quite a few things jumped out at me on this thread. Especially


1."Market conditions at the moment make the method a lot more vulnerable to the scenario you speak of so one cannot follow the original method."
Is the method no longer working? Changed?

2."I was disappointed with this element of the course as it did not take into consideration all market conditions. And you have to be a little creative to reduce the potential results of 'worst case scenario'."
Is it not a stict follow the rules system?

3."The 1.5-2% per month is easily obtainable, although when entering the trade the risk is undefined and theoretically virtually unlimited."
I thought your capital was never at risk? But someone is saying the risk is theoritically unlimited?

4."This is typical of such companies selling very basic courses."
The sales page says it has been developed so it is risk free. Is it just marketing and actually just a very simple options strategy in the publlic domain and carries a certain amount of risk?

Anyone who has the course care to comment. Would be great to have a definitive answer to some of these. From what I have read Simon seems to be the only one making a consistent success of this and has been more than happy to even add to his funds.

If I knew categorically my savings were never at risk and indeed 12%+ per annum was easily achievable I would be on this tomorrow.

Did any of you guys that contemplated joining for so long ever join. If so is it all you had hoped for?

The above demonstrates that you really need to understand a bit more about options, buying and selling puts and calls, to understand the risk.

Have you even attempted to look at the free information on the web?

It is not surprising that people get ripped off for thousands of pounds, buying basic information, when they do not do their own research first.

This was exactly my mistake, hence my warning to others.

 

[minihat]

Thanks so much for your reply Porkpie.

I have indeed been trying to educate myself with option strategies of which there seem to be several low risk ones that can be made even safer with a bit of management. But none that offered a totally risk free approach that PIE was suggesting. I had thought that it was just clever marketing, from some of the previous replys.

I think infact that was one of the biggest "put offs" for me. That I would attend only to realise it was a basic strategy I had already seen elsewhere and the "risk free" approach wasn't actually risk free but rather cleverly worded marketing.

Thanks again for letting myself and others know.

Could I just ask are you still succesfully trading the best options strategy ever. Have been looking at it myself.

 

[scaldedcat]

Porkipie your comments are as always much appreciated.

I had little to no knowledge of options when I first heard about PIE. So this idea/system that could possibly produce double digit returns on your investment each year sounded too good to be true.

But even after reading all I could find on options, it makes sense to me to a point, but not to the level where I would trust myself to trade. That is why I thought something like PIE may help. A more hold your hand type approach. I just don't believe that by reading a couple of books, and searching the internet for further info, I am ready to invest my family's hard earned in options, or any trading ideas for that matter.

I currently receive 2% interest a year on my investment. Below inflation. So I know I need to do something, but what. Maybe my feeble mind is just not suited to this form of investment. So after more than four years of research I am no closer to my goal.

It is the same as the stock market. You can do plenty of research on the net about blue chip shares, speculative shares etc, but I wouldn't get involved with that either as just don't have the expertise I believe is needed to be successful.

Sorry to take over Keith, this was about you, not me. I have had my say more than once lol.

I hope you find success in whatever you may choose to do.

 

[minihat]

No problem Tim. Like i said earlier your concerns and points you make very much echo mine. Its good to hear Im not alone infact.

I too have looked at a myriad of investment opportunities and like you feel I need a little more hand holding to invest all my savings. Maybe PIE does offer that but at a high price.

Can I assume from your all your previous comments Porkpie that PIE does actually work. Just a rip off regards price and that in fact there are better opion strategies. BOSE for one?

 

[Porkpie]

Thanks so much for your reply Porkpie.

I have indeed been trying to educate myself with option strategies of which there seem to be several low risk ones that can be made even safer with a bit of management. But none that offered a totally risk free approach that PIE was suggesting. I had thought that it was just clever marketing, from some of the previous replys.

I think infact that was one of the biggest "put offs" for me. That I would attend only to realise it was a basic strategy I had already seen elsewhere and the "risk free" approach wasn't actually risk free but rather cleverly worded marketing.

Thanks again for letting myself and others know.

Could I just ask are you still succesfully trading the best options strategy ever. Have been looking at it myself.

Yes I do trade BOSE (slightly modified) as part of my trading portfolio - hands off low maintenance approach. No strategy is risk free. Black swan events do happen. With BOSE and PIE you have to be prepared to add further capital to keep yourself safe if required (unless you adopt Simon's approach - but even then....). PIE does work, but, as stated before imo it is very poor value for money in terms of the education content. It may explain itself better than the BOSE book, but that's also pretty simple. I can understand the hand holding attraction for many and I suppose that is where Paul and Glynn have targeted their product in the options education market.

Options are simply Risk markets (as opposed to capital markets). Risk is seen in terms of movement (hence the greeks ). Market makers will put prices (premiums) up or down in pricing the options. The higher the premium the greater likelihood the market will move to that price (and vice versa). The further out you sell or buy an option away from Risk, the cheaper it becomes to buy (pay premium), or sell (receive premium). The premium is like a cost (for buyers) or reward (for sellers) for doing business. Movement = risk for the market makers which leads to higher prices to do business at certain price points. It doesn't really get much simpler than that.

The main options strategies can be split up into 2 camps, Options for Income and Options for growth. The income strategies essentially capitalise on sideways movement, whereas growth strategies look for larger directional trending moves. PIE and BOSE attempt to overcome requiring the need to define the daily market conditions as directional or flat by capitalising on being, either away from Risk, or by hedging this risk. It is the lazy way of trading options because you are not having to analyse the market (PIE argue that its futile - but they are wrong and use their mis-understanding of the markets to sell their product). I adapt BOSE by using market analysis to determine areas of high volatility to get better pricing by adjusting my risk.

 

[minihat]

Thanks once again Porkpie.

It's actually quite interesting reading your take on PIE and BOSE from an experienced traders point of view. And thank you for confirming that PIE does actually work. Not sure if you meant only if one adopts Simons approach or that Simon trades it the least riskiest way possible and hence allows it to succeed. BOSE really made sense to me in principal and I imagine the two being very similar. Low risk but not risk free.

Overall I do prefer the idea of trading one market as in PIE, although I am sure spreading your capital over several stocks as in BOSE makes much more sense in respect of risk.

I am still interested in PIE though, but I fully take on board your premise of poor value for money, especially when compared to BOSE.

Maybe they could be used together to diversify risk further. Been looking at another low risk options strategy too. Could maybe PM you the details and see what you think.

 

[scaldedcat]

Hi Keith

Would you be able to let me know what "BOSE" stands for. I have googled it and didn't come up with anything, but would be interested in reading a little about it.

Cheers

Tim

 

[minihat]

Sure Tim. No problem...it's just the acronym of the book you have already looked at I believe. The "Best Option Strategy Ever".

 

[Porkpie]

Thanks once again Porkpie.

It's actually quite interesting reading your take on PIE and BOSE from an experienced traders point of view. And thank you for confirming that PIE does actually work. Not sure if you meant only if one adopts Simons approach or that Simon trades it the least riskiest way possible and hence allows it to succeed. BOSE really made sense to me in principal and I imagine the two being very similar. Low risk but not risk free.

Overall I do prefer the idea of trading one market as in PIE, although I am sure spreading your capital over several stocks as in BOSE makes much more sense in respect of risk.

I am still interested in PIE though, but I fully take on board your premise of poor value for money, especially when compared to BOSE.

Maybe they could be used together to diversify risk further. Been looking at another low risk options strategy too. Could maybe PM you the details and see what you think.

Sure, send me a pm I'll take a look.

Yes Simon's approach is much more conservative which keeps him safer and so he is less likely to find himself out of the money and therefore having to deal with that scenario to get back into profit (but with less risk means....). But he also takes some profit earlier when it arises.

BOSE can be traded using one market and I would suggest that one does initially. But you do trade 2 types of contract which I think you might be referring to compared to PIE?

 

[scaldedcat]

lol, thank you Keith, I think that confirms I probably should stay away from anything remotely challenging.

 

[harami]

Thank you Porkpie,Simon and others for posting your views on PIE and BOSE .You have potentially saved me £3K.I was pretty sure I had worked out what they were doing and the confirmation is here on this thread if you have sufficient knowledge of options.
I am not new to options having been on a three day course way back in the 90's.I bought BOSE about a year ago but cannot easily trade that system as I do not have a lose $25k to invest in it although I could manage PIE type system.
Recently to refresh my knowledge I have taken several very good courses on options both intermediate and advanced for little money and am trading in a demo account at the moment using the safer strategies that I have learnt.I know that trading live is very different but a demo account will teach you alot about how option prices change relative to time ,volatility etc.

Question regarding BOSE:If you put your trade on one stock once per month then surely that would not mark you as a pattern trade would it ? Am I missing something.
Anyway its a great that people share their experiences here and I am so glad I found this thread.

 

[danjuma]

BOSE, for the price($47) is probably not bad a value compared to 3k. Although, even the info in BOSE (as I discovered later) an be found freely on the net with much digging. Another one you can have a look at is 'covered calls' by these guys www(dot)compoundstockearnings(dot)com. I am not suggesting you enroll/pay for their course etc (after years of paying for this and that, I have personally concluded I will never pay any stupid money for any training, course, seminar etc, as you find out at the end that none of these supposed secret strategies/systems is new. They are all rehashed and repackaged systems and ideas that have always been around, which you can almost always find freely with much digging around the net). Back to the above site I mentioned, the crux of their system is in their book - Covered Calls and LEAPS: A Wealth Option, which you can find a copy for free on the net with a bit of digging
My only issue with the BOSE manual is that it does not go into much details (finer details) as to how to mitigate a position that is going way against you (the stock price shooting up). My opinion is the manual is a bit lacking in the finer details of certain things.

 

[harami]

Hi danjuma,Thanks for your reply ,I agree with you about BOSE ,the fine detail which is often the crucial difference between success and failure is not there.
Regarding covered calls ,if you get deep into options you realize they are no different to naked puts but I will take a look at your recommendations .You can never know all there is to know and I enjoy learning .I have found a lot of excellent free information on the net.

 

[Porkpie]

My only issue with the BOSE manual is that it does not go into much details (finer details) as to how to mitigate a position that is going way against you (the stock price shooting up). My opinion is the manual is a bit lacking in the finer details of certain things.

Not true. Re-read page Q6 on pages 35-36. That is all that is needed.

 

[harami]

Not true. Re-read page Q6 on pages 35-36. That is all that is needed.

Thank you Porkpie for that reminder I had overlooked/forgotten about that Q&A.
Could you trade this with just one complete trade per month without being classed as a pattern trader ?