Atilla
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Have they tried Carillion's KPMG crowd?
Have they tried Carillion's KPMG crowd?
NVP
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anyone know whats happening to us poor Brit travellers to europe post Brexit ?
i understand we are doomed to the Shengen agreement and we will be treated like canadians , Yanks and Aussies .......we will need visas and will only be allowed to spend 90 days in any 180 days in Europe .....
my wife is furious as we were planning to buy something ........has saved me a fortune though so bring the Visa on !!!
N
i understand we are doomed to the Shengen agreement and we will be treated like canadians , Yanks and Aussies .......we will need visas and will only be allowed to spend 90 days in any 180 days in Europe .....
my wife is furious as we were planning to buy something ........has saved me a fortune though so bring the Visa on !!!
N
mike.
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I wonder if the following will happen in the irish 7th amendment referendum...
1. Another referendum..We didnt know what we were voting for.
2. take the result to court
3. only partially apply the changes.
4. put the result through the house of lords
5. put the loosing side in charge of implementing the changes
6. All of the above....:whistling
1. Another referendum..We didnt know what we were voting for.
2. take the result to court
3. only partially apply the changes.
4. put the result through the house of lords
5. put the loosing side in charge of implementing the changes
6. All of the above....:whistling
counter_violent
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You're probably right Pat, nobody's going to go broke or get rich due to Brexit. Nobody's quality of life is going to be ruined or made much better either.
What Brexit probably does is push the long-term objective of the EU project much further into the future - i.e. European political union. And that's a good thing.
Atilla
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Pat494
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Sorry to disagree with you there on that point of an improved political union. The EU is dominated by Germany's old woman. They need a lot of reform to make it attractive.
Signalcalc
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Missing the point why there is a bit of a furor.
Not forgetting the transfer of constitutional powers back from the EU to the UK, self-determination is also a good thing and one of the main reasons for Brexit.
This thread understandably has a natural bias towards business and trade opinion, you have to remember that most people's priorities when basing their referendum voting decision, was not on business and trade opinion (Project Fear helped in that respect - ie people took a contrarian view to the establishment view), but on sovereignty and self-determination. To retake our judiciary and law making and constitutional powers that have been superceded by the EU central command, throw in a good dose of open borders and hey presto! Brexit 🙂
People get hot under the collar for those reasons more than trade or business, unfortunately the political union of the EU demands that control remains superceded to the EU to remain in a 'common market' so the two are inextricably linked.
Accepting constitutional restrictions in exchange for business does not cut it with the average Brexiteer, because of the imposed EU baseline, hence the heated debates.
sminicooper
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At rate of current Brexit progress the EU will probably not exist by the time we get our act together!
Pat494
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counter_violent
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Entirely possible. The Italian and Spanish political situations are interesting to say the least!
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-rattle-bond-and-stock-markets-idUSKCN1IQ1HL
According to Atilla, Europe is doing just great....so that's alright then 😆
counter_violent
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C
cantagril
Up to a point, Lord Copper:
Of course things will "pan out" in one way or another but I believe that one of the fundamental errors in looking at the whole Brexit fiasco is that there is going to be a clear and definite Hollywood movie resolution - good triumphs over evil / the guy gets the girl/ the spell is broken etc etc as nauseam.
The reality is far more prosaic and down-market: the Brexit episodes are merely part of an on-going South American style soap opera which is now into its umpteenth series. Each time things look as if there is going to be some kind of an ending or at least a new beginning, somebody is found to be the illegitimate son of a prince - or a nun, or the really good/bad guy dies of a sudden heart attack, or the Italians/Belgians/Spanish fail to come up with a new corrupt and incompetent cabal....now, what are they called again? Ah yes: "government". The hack ex-hairdresser screenplay writers excel themselves with plot twists and turns that ensure that will not only be another episode but another (Oh God! Please Nooooo!) series, whilst the generations of the captive audience lost the plot (quite literally) in a beginning that's way back in the mists of time. As they used to say in theatreland "This one will run and run."
As to affecting the average Joe: overnight, absolutely not. Longer term, who knows? I can see that in my case there might well be some serious aggro and I've been making modest preparations for a while now - hermetically sealed underground Brexit-proof bunker, tinned food for a decade and Teach Yourself Permaculture. A chap needs to have a plan you know.....
As somebody mentioned just now, if one realises that there might be problems on the horizon for Brits abroad then there's always the possibility of becoming a national of the country of one's residence. I have been thinking about dual-nationality for myself and offsprogs (I'm a long term French resident) and when I happened to be chatting to a notary friend about it he let slip that over the last few months he's had a number of direct enquiries about just this subject. So there you are: feeble minds think alike.
It's a good thing I'm an optimist🙂
sminicooper
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Spaghetti Brexit anyone?
Interesting graph:
Interesting comment:
https://capx.co/the-eu-has-already-lost-the-uk-it-could-lose-italy-too/
Interesting graph:
Interesting comment:
https://capx.co/the-eu-has-already-lost-the-uk-it-could-lose-italy-too/
counter_violent
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cantagril
Ho hum...
I myself made exactly this point on this thread about the Absolute and the Relative but a short time ago. As I recall, the Relative was not popular amongst the faithful...and now it seems as if it's become a weapon of choice.
Besides which, if you look at the argumenta that Mr Holland is using to trash politicians, e.g:
That EU politicians are blaming others for their rubbish - er, is this not standard politico practice?....get things wrong and blame the guys who've left the room? Seems like business as usual to me-
"In the echo chambers in which politicians often find themselves, the strategy may appear to work for a time, but ultimately this tactic is failing. The problem is that tainting politicians as “populists”, or their supporters as “racists” or “bigots” doesn’t absolve establishment parties of yesterday’s policy failures, nor does it successfully place the blame for today’s woes at the feet of those same “populists”.
...and this gem. Having just said that it's not surprising that the current flavour of EU madness has started in Italy he then seems to think it IS surprising that the anti-EU crowd are getting so many votes. He obviously doesn't get out much or just doesn't like reading the papers (bit of a handicap for a journo, that) as the same Populism that he's referred to has been gradually gaining, um,..popularity for the best part of 20 years. Maybe he's a youngster and this Brave World is all New....to him anyway.
"It is not surprising that this latest crisis should have emerged in Rome. .....
The striking difference this time though is that euroscepticism appears to have firmly taken root in Italy."
So the Italians are heading for their first century of governments since the War. I feel their pain - they need to excel somewhere. As to where it will lead them: IMO back to where they were 30 or 40 years ago: Brigate Rosse against the Alleanza Nazionale...in fact the current "Lega" who've done so well at the polls is just a minor rebranding of the Lega Nord which in one way is quite a laugh as they themselves were founded as a separatist organisation... but separate from Italy. Now they're bleating about "Italians first".
All fun🙂
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Well, you haven't got to the stage where the protesters are put in gaol. That's what Maduro, in Venezuela, does with his.
I'm keeping quiet because I have enough here, in Spain, to think about. Certainly what the Italians are up to is no concern of mine. There is a vote of no confidence in Madrid tomorrow---debates today. The Spanish media is having a field day.
The EU is in need of serious reform , but leave it? I don't think that that is being considered by anyone over here and Italy is well known for political crisis. She's doing what she always does.
