Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

Are you trying to rewrite history again?

The railways were decimated under Labour.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/02/beeching-wrong-about-britains-railways

Only the victorious are allowed the privilege of rewriting history. So first of all, you need to get on the right side of all the debates: thumbsup:

Thatcher, glorious leader of the UK. It is written in history.

Becareful what you wish for so they say.

First Carillion and many more in the queue.

If you care to read the article they are thinking of establishing a private public partnership in 2020 again. That's where politicians secure their future by screwing over the public for future generations to come.

Private profits and nationalised losses.

No change there.


Sometimes I wonder if you guys believe the tosh and fodder you shovel. :whistling

 

[tomorton]

Brexit was also about removing layer upon layer of parasites, starting with the EU government and ending up gawd knows where. House of lords is also making itself a very easy target at the moment.

This shower milked the system dry

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ocks-lord-Britain--picking-12m-pay-perks.html

It will of course take a very long time for the UK to attract the right caliber of politician back to the commons, but we have to start somewhere and Brexit was the signal.

Drain the swamp ! Ring any bells.

I can't see any reason to believe that Brexit will really change either the nature or number of chancer politicians we have to pay for. If something is currently decided in Brussels but will be removed by Brexit to be decided in Westminster, Cardiff, Holyrood and Stormont, we're still going to be lumbered with them, how have we reduced the political burden?

The civil service are showing the way things really work. If you need 5,000 civil servants to administer a £2bn infrastructure development budget that comes from the EU, you will still need 5,000 civil servants to administer the same budget when its coming from London.

 

[Pat494]

A desperate Mrs May I see is going to partly nationalize the railways.
That should please Labour and it won't be long before they are on strike every other week just as they used to be in the 1960s.
If Brexit has a hope of working I think a radical change in business and company practices are urgently needed.
To save jobs ( companies ) from the Unions and the City of London financial vultures.

 

[mike.]

Though im no labour supporter Pat, I do see the importance of unions in the workplace. Management can, will, walk all over the working man with no shame, I've witnessed it first hand many times. Once a union works together with a company for a safer workplace and a fair days pay then there is no need to resent it... Ive seen many dirty tricks imposed by so called management over the years and also witnessed many problems ironed out by intervention of a union. To the self employed man and the outsider looking in whom has never been a member or needed a union i can see why they appear to cause trouble and unrest. There's always a bigger picture.

 

[Pat494]

Though im no labour supporter Pat, I do see the importance of unions in the workplace. Management can, will, walk all over the working man with no shame, I've witnessed it first hand many times. Once a union works together with a company for a safer workplace and a fair days pay then there is no need to resent it... Ive seen many dirty tricks imposed by so called management over the years and also witnessed many problems ironed out by intervention of a union. To the self employed man and the outsider looking in whom has never been a member or needed a union i can see why they appear to cause trouble and unrest. There's always a bigger picture.

Once a union works together with a company for a safer workplace and a fair days pay then there is no need to resent it...

To sum up in 2 words we need team work and to be fairly paid by results.
No more 19th century them and us. It is just too inefficient imho.
Yes I too have suffered from the old system.
Redundant the day before the pension rights kick-in etc.

 

[cantagril]

I can't see any reason to believe that Brexit will really change either the nature or number of chancer politicians we have to pay for. If something is currently decided in Brussels but will be removed by Brexit to be decided in Westminster, Cardiff, Holyrood and Stormont, we're still going to be lumbered with them, how have we reduced the political burden?

The civil service are showing the way things really work. If you need 5,000 civil servants to administer a £2bn infrastructure development budget that comes from the EU, you will still need 5,000 civil servants to administer the same budget when its coming from London.

Dead on Tommo!

There's an awful lot that's going to be exactly the same...but dressed up to look different and a fair deal of it is going to cost a lot more than people currently realise... and that's not just in moolah.

Ironically, the matters that really need to be addressed by both parties (and now) are being relegated because of the process that's been undertaken. It isn't going to be easy and the idea that the EU should give us more leeway than other non-EU countries is naïve.

We've buttered our bread and now we get to lie on it. Only time will tell whether it's more or less comfortable than the present doss.

 

[mike.]

My wife's situation was a clear example, Her work offered free in-house meals as part of a incentive towards recrutement, This was also written into her work contract. To cut a long story short, this was stopped after approx 6 years... I said to her, You do realise that they can't take away a workers right which is written into a contract that easy and that she should join a union to take advice..

Her reply was " the management can do what they want !!, they dont want to have a union "
No, I replied, i'm sure they dont want a union..

Sometimes, you just cant make people see. :innocent:

 

[Atilla]

On the other hand we have management paying them selves as much bonus and numeration as they like behind closed doors coz well they are management and they deserve every penny. :cheesy:

If we don't pay them what they think they should be paid, they'll simply go elsewhere and then what will we be left with? Just the workers and they'll not know what to do without Management telling them what they should be doing?

Brexit will fix all this because we will have our sovereignty back and determine what people are really worth and justice will prevail through out the Kingdom.


Obivious init!

 

[mike.]

On the other hand we have management paying them selves as much bonus and numeration as they like behind closed doors coz well they are management and they deserve every penny. :cheesy:

If we don't pay them what they think they should be paid, they'll simply go elsewhere and then what will we be left with? Just the workers and they'll not know what to do without Management telling them what they should be doing?

Brexit will fix all this because we will have our sovereignty back and determine what people are really worth and justice will prevail through out the Kingdom.


Obivious init!

I'm sensing a everso slight whiff of sarcasm in the above atilla...

obv not intentional..

 

[Atilla]

I'm sensing a everso slight whiff of sarcasm in the above atilla...

obv not intentional..

Good heavens no, have no idea what I could have possibly said to make you think as such.

I thought I was agreeing with you in many respects just wanted to balance perspectives from the top looking down that all.

Management and Unions working hand in glove to deliver world beating products we can sell to the rest of the World as soon as we can get out of the European Union who are simply cramping our style to deliver these tremendous productivity improvements.

All good with mi

 

[sminicooper]

JRM puts his finger on it!

Excerpt:

“Inevitably it is disconcerting when the Government says one thing and then agrees to do another. In terms of these negotiations, particularly as they’re led by someone who backed Remain, trust is very important. And it’s very important that the Government maintains faith with those who voted leave.

I think for the Government to be preparing for failure two and half years before the point at which they ought to be ready is just weak.

To go into the negotiations to say to Mr Barnier, ‘we will kowtow before you in every way you possibly want if we cannot get everything ready by the due date’ encourages him to say, ‘just kowtow, I’m quite happy’. And make no effort to come to a sensible agreement, I think it is a sign of abject weakness.”

If we say to the EU our backstop position is that will be the vassal state, why should the EU make any effort to make any arrangement other than for us to be anything other than for us to be a vassal state? This was always a problem with what was agreed in December and the problem with having creative ambiguity. Which is simply a way of trying to gull voters. Actually Governments should not have creative ambiguity, they should be straight with electorates about what they mean. And they should say what they mean, and then do it. I’m afraid this backstop is becoming very attractive to the EU not to offer us anything further. And therefore it is essentially a trap.

The Government should make preparations faster than it is for leaving without a deal. It should be ready to do that because it’s an essential part of the negotiations. It’s not to say that they want to leave without a deal, or even that I want to leave without a deal, but that it would be something a wise government would have spent much more time preparing. It’s been weak about that.”

The other thing that it should do is make it absolutely clear that the money is in return for a trade deal. And if we don’t get a trade deal, if we don’t have it ready to sign immediately after the 29th March, then the EU will not get any money from us. And that no payments will be made until that deal is made. The money is our strongest card, and it seems at the moment to have been given away without anything in return. So I think we need some backbone in these negotiations.

I fear we’re getting to the point where you wonder whether the Government really wants to leave at all.”

 

[counter_violent]

Excerpt:

“Inevitably it is disconcerting when the Government says one thing and then agrees to do another. In terms of these negotiations, particularly as they’re led by someone who backed Remain, trust is very important. And it’s very important that the Government maintains faith with those who voted leave.

I think for the Government to be preparing for failure two and half years before the point at which they ought to be ready is just weak.

To go into the negotiations to say to Mr Barnier, ‘we will kowtow before you in every way you possibly want if we cannot get everything ready by the due date’ encourages him to say, ‘just kowtow, I’m quite happy’. And make no effort to come to a sensible agreement, I think it is a sign of abject weakness.”

If we say to the EU our backstop position is that will be the vassal state, why should the EU make any effort to make any arrangement other than for us to be anything other than for us to be a vassal state? This was always a problem with what was agreed in December and the problem with having creative ambiguity. Which is simply a way of trying to gull voters. Actually Governments should not have creative ambiguity, they should be straight with electorates about what they mean. And they should say what they mean, and then do it. I’m afraid this backstop is becoming very attractive to the EU not to offer us anything further. And therefore it is essentially a trap.

The Government should make preparations faster than it is for leaving without a deal. It should be ready to do that because it’s an essential part of the negotiations. It’s not to say that they want to leave without a deal, or even that I want to leave without a deal, but that it would be something a wise government would have spent much more time preparing. It’s been weak about that.”

The other thing that it should do is make it absolutely clear that the money is in return for a trade deal. And if we don’t get a trade deal, if we don’t have it ready to sign immediately after the 29th March, then the EU will not get any money from us. And that no payments will be made until that deal is made. The money is our strongest card, and it seems at the moment to have been given away without anything in return. So I think we need some backbone in these negotiations.

I fear we’re getting to the point where you wonder whether the Government really wants to leave at all.”

Yeah the fact is that our current crop of second rate politicians have not the foggiest idea how to negotiate anything. They have entered into talks from the start believing that they don't have the upper hand and that they need to somehow appease the EU and be all things to all men.

I'm even more convinced that there will be no deal.

Internal forces within the EU will contribute to their undoing. The political situation in Italy has the potential to rock the EU to it's core. The Eastern European countries are in total revolt over unsecure external borders, free movement and the ongoing refugee crisis.

Sweden is increasing military spending and even contemplating joining Nato! Sweden's problems are all self inflicted, they are fighting the wrong battle in believing that Russia is the threat. A few more years down the line and they will be operating under sharia law. It's probably already too late for Sweden.

 

[tomorton]

May and the MP's of all parties must be cursing their bad luck that they got into parliament just when something really important needed managing - Brexit. Its plain to see, in the harsh glare of constant media analysis, just how rubbish they actually are. A government that can't govern, an opposition that can't oppose.

 

[Pat494]

Don't worry that is just democracy muddling along.
Still preferable to nasty dictators.

 

[sminicooper]

Boris feels the nation's pulse

https://t.co/nZI0FgDKEq

Boris speaking to Bloomberg in Buenos Aires:

“The prime minister is the custodian of the plan, which is to come out of the customs union, out of the single market and to get on with it, to get on with that project with all convenient speed. Outward, free-trading countries — what they want to hear from us is that we are getting on with it with confidence and brio and zap and dynamism.”

 

[sminicooper]

May and the MP's of all parties must be cursing their bad luck that they got into parliament just when something really important needed managing - Brexit. Its plain to see, in the harsh glare of constant media analysis, just how rubbish they actually are. A government that can't govern, an opposition that can't oppose.

If May & Corbyn had been football managers they would have been long gone!

 

[Signalcalc]

The problems for UKGov is that they are being pulled by powerful forces, they are engaged with integrating our military with the EU (by stealth), they need to be seen to be fulfilling the democratic will of the people, they have personal business interests that need to be looked after, Soros money controls swathes of our establishment, Saudi money is increasingly influencing areas of our Society, they have domestic issues such as NHS privatisation (by stealth), railway de-privatisation, Carillon corruption to deal with, child sex abuse scandals and local council corruption, immigration scandals and a broken immigration system, a house of Lords using the ‘democratic process’ to try and force ‘something’, and you have the USA now gunning for Iran threatening to trash ours (and the EU) energy supply lines, they have already blown the Russian energy supply with their narrative, and so on and so on.

They are literally swimming in a sea of their own making, they are weak and incompetent, so it’s no wonder they are clueless and will most likely take the path of least resistance over Brexit. You see a situation like the Skripal and Syrian narrative fall apart to the point where no one believes them which shows the pressure that various departments are under in trying to communicate with each other.

Brexit already is a balls-up.

 

[sminicooper]

The problems for UKGov is that they are being pulled by powerful forces, they are engaged with integrating our military with the EU (by stealth), they need to be seen to be fulfilling the democratic will of the people, they have personal business interests that need to be looked after, Soros money controls swathes of our establishment, Saudi money is increasingly influencing areas of our Society, they have domestic issues such as NHS privatisation (by stealth), railway de-privatisation, Carillon corruption to deal with, child sex abuse scandals and local council corruption, immigration scandals and a broken immigration system, a house of Lords using the ‘democratic process’ to try and force ‘something’, and you have the USA now gunning for Iran threatening to trash ours (and the EU) energy supply lines, they have already blown the Russian energy supply with their narrative, and so on and so on.

They are literally swimming in a sea of their own making, they are weak and incompetent, so it’s no wonder they are clueless and will most likely take the path of least resistance over Brexit. You see a situation like the Skripal and Syrian narrative fall apart to the point where no one believes them which shows the pressure that various departments are under in trying to communicate with each other.

Brexit already is a balls-up.

And all these problems that are now plaguing the government are because they and their predecessors never got down to dealing with them – the old politicians favourite: "kick the can down the road". It's just human nature though isn't it? We can do the same as traders and you see businesses e.g. Carillion acting in the same way. Even on the high street we see the same examples (despite Brexit, despite the weather, despite the Internet etc etc) and yet stores like Next prosper.

It all comes down to management doesn't it?

 

[Atilla]

Has anyone considered Brexit may not be the great idea it was proposed to be?


Personally, I think UK is going to walk out the door backwards.

It will have full visibility of what it is leaving but no clue about what it is walking back to...

 

[sminicooper]

Has anyone considered Brexit may not be the great idea it was proposed to be?


Personally, I think UK is going to walk out the door backwards.

It will have full visibility of what it is leaving but no clue about what it is walking back to...

It was a great idea until May got her hands on it!