Brexit and the Consequences

[Splitlink]

No surprise but Mariano Rajoy ousted from Spanish Presidency on Vote of Confidence. !80 against 169.

So.….Pedro Sanchez, Socialist, gets the job. Will it make Spain better? You know socialists and economics, so I'm going to wait and see. Cataluña has to be sorted out, next.

 

[cantagril]

Exactly right. The whole EU operates from a position of "barriers to entry", the reason for this is dead simple, they are in the business of protectionism and managed decline. Which is the polar opposite of free trade, less red tape, entrepreneurship and free market economics in general.

In the context of Tim's experience with his friends in Brittany - the perceived barriers have nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with French culture. France has a completely different take on business, employment and regulations than is the case in Anglo world. It has been suggested to me that this is because they (thanks to Napoleon et al) have a written constitution which encourages what the citizen is "allowed" to do rather than in the case of the UK where regulation and law is more about what one is not allowed to do. I don't support this particular argument because as far as I know things were no different when France was a monarchy.

Anyway, senseless regulations and hurdles for the populace are (as Tim said) part of the landscape and similar cultural differences exist in the rest of Europe and did so looooong before the EU was a glint in anyone's eye. I can attest that 30/40 years France was worse and even now they rejoice that they don't have to put up with the level of state interference that the Italians do.

So CV: you're right but not just because it's the EU...it's because they're just not English😀

 

[Pat494]

No surprise but Mariano Rajoy ousted from Spanish Presidency on Vote of Confidence. !80 against 169.

So.….Pedro Sanchez, Socialist, gets the job. Will it make Spain better? You know socialists and economics, so I'm going to wait and see. Cataluña has to be sorted out, next.

According to Auntie Beeb Rajoy or his Govt is involved in corruption scandals.

Perhaps the UK could invite Catalonia to become a basis for a new reformed EU club that the rest would be happy to join ?

 

[Splitlink]

According to Auntie Beeb Rajoy or his Govt is involved in corruption scandals.

Perhaps the UK could invite Catalonia to become a basis for a new reformed EU club that the rest would be happy to join ?

Auntie Beeb is right! In a big way!. However, I hesitate to say that he is crooked directly. As President, he had to know, though, or he was inept.

Marano Rajoy was a man who had a big, red pen and little thought for the majority's problems. That's why Cataluña has been handled the way it has.

Will things get better? we'll have to wait and see. New brooms sweep clean. I forsee Pedro Sanchez preparing the way until the next elections, in two years time, in making himself popular--he needs the votes.

 

[Pat494]

Auntie Beeb is right! In a big way!. However, I hesitate to say that he is crooked directly. As President, he had to know, though, or he was inept.

Marano Rajoy was a man who had a big, red pen and little thought for the majority's problems. That's why Cataluña has been handled the way it has.

Will things get better? we'll have to wait and see. New brooms sweep clean. I forsee Pedro Sanchez preparing the way until the next elections, in two years time, in making himself popular--he needs the votes.

It is one thing to win an election but a completely different scene to make a new Govt. work.

 

[Atilla]

Missing the point why there is a bit of a furor.

Not forgetting the transfer of constitutional powers back from the EU to the UK, self-determination is also a good thing and one of the main reasons for Brexit.

This thread understandably has a natural bias towards business and trade opinion, you have to remember that most people's priorities when basing their referendum voting decision, was not on business and trade opinion (Project Fear helped in that respect - ie people took a contrarian view to the establishment view), but on sovereignty and self-determination. To retake our judiciary and law making and constitutional powers that have been superceded by the EU central command, throw in a good dose of open borders and hey presto! Brexit 🙂

People get hot under the collar for those reasons more than trade or business, unfortunately the political union of the EU demands that control remains superceded to the EU to remain in a 'common market' so the two are inextricably linked.

Accepting constitutional restrictions in exchange for business does not cut it with the average Brexiteer, because of the imposed EU baseline, hence the heated debates.

This is all fine and well except UK does not live in a bubble of her own.

Sooner or later when trade agreements arise compromises will have to be made again outlining same stuff Brexiteers feel reduce Parliamentary voice.

Much like Trump renegading on past US agreements. With each change of government, old very bad deals can be torn up and new ones embarked upon.


Have to remember your sovereignty shenanigans when Parliament votes to agree on new international deals!


👍

 

[Atilla]

I wonder if the following will happen in the irish 7th amendment referendum...

1. Another referendum..We didnt know what we were voting for.
2. take the result to court
3. only partially apply the changes.
4. put the result through the house of lords
5. put the loosing side in charge of implementing the changes
6. All of the above....:whistling

Was it 48-52...

 

[Atilla]

Weird innit....remoaners always go missing when confronted with reality 😆

You still have not managed to grasp the numbers game.

If India and China with a combined population of almost 3 bn, increase output what do you suppose happens to weighting of other nations output...


If you increase speed from 60 to 70 whilst another car overtakes you increasing their speed from 60 - 80 at the same time where do you end up:?:

Doesn't mean you have slowed down does it:?:



:whistling

 

[mike.]

Was it 48-52...

66-33.....probably same ratio as brexiteers/remainers now. :cheesy:

 

[Splitlink]

66-33.....probably same ratio as brexiteers/remainers now. :cheesy:

At least, it would make more sense and give more satisfaction to both sides.

Why doesn't N.Ireland have a ref, with a stipulation of 66-33 compulsory, at least. If they wanted independence, with union to EU or Eire, that would take care of the border problem. EU would have to agree to it, of course. That, I'm afraid, would mean that Scotland and Cataluña would want in, as well.

England could then go it alone. My Dad was a Welshman---I must make sure that they get a fair deal, too! What about them?

 

[Signalcalc]

There goes another one.....

https://www.westmonster.com/anti-mass-migration-slovenia-first-party-win-election/

 

[sminicooper]

there goes another one.....

https://www.westmonster.com/anti-mass-migration-slovenia-first-party-win-election/

 

[sminicooper]

Penka the cow

Unsure whether to put this in "Joke of the Day" or even if it's a Daily Mail wind-up.
But it made me chuckle - judge for yourself:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5805991/QUENTIN-LETTS-Penka-cow-sums-thats-wrong-EU.html

 

[Pat494]

Unsure whether to put this in "Joke of the Day" or even if it's a Daily Mail wind-up.
But it made me chuckle - judge for yourself:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5805991/QUENTIN-LETTS-Penka-cow-sums-thats-wrong-EU.html

Bring in La madame guillotine for bossy EU beurocrats.

 

[Atilla]

There goes another one.....

https://www.westmonster.com/anti-mass-migration-slovenia-first-party-win-election/

Slovenia suggesting curtailing free movement of labour or just migration from outside of the EU?

I thought this was already done and dusted. Even Merkel got the message?

Is the anti-immigration party suggesting free movement of labour?

What are you celebrating exactly? I have no idea why Brexiteers keep posting this self confirming mindless posts which have no bearing on Brexit.

If Slovenia wishes to curtail free movement then her citizens can get kicked out of EU as well.


Much ado about zilch. Fail to see significance. Can you clarify?


Thanks 👍

 

[Signalcalc]

Slovenia suggesting curtailing free movement of labour or just migration from outside of the EU?

I thought this was already done and dusted. Even Merkel got the message?

Is the anti-immigration party suggesting free movement of labour?

According to the NYT, Mr Jansa, leader of the Slovenian Democratic Party said on Sunday that migration was the biggest challenge facing Slovenia and Europe.

“I will say what I have said already before: We are for solidarity, but we are against stupidity,” he said, advocating a policy of discouraging migrants from coming to Europe by improving conditions in their own countries.

What are you celebrating exactly? I have no idea why Brexiteers keep posting this self confirming mindless posts which have no bearing on Brexit.

Huh?

If Slovenia wishes to curtail free movement then her citizens can get kicked out of EU as well.

Choices, choices, I know, let's allow the Slovenian people to decide for themselves, shall we?

Much ado about zilch. Fail to see significance.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."

Mr Janus didn't make that staatement, but I thought it was quite apt 😆

 

[Atilla]

According to the NYT, Mr Jansa, leader of the Slovenian Democratic Party said on Sunday that migration was the biggest challenge facing Slovenia and Europe.

“I will say what I have said already before: We are for solidarity, but we are against stupidity,” he said, advocating a policy of discouraging migrants from coming to Europe by improving conditions in their own countries.



Huh?



Choices, choices, I know, let's allow the Slovenian people to decide for themselves, shall we?



"There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know."

Mr Janus didn't make that staatement, but I thought it was quite apt 😆

You talk about being blind and I wonder if you can read?

Question once again is the distinction between migration from outside the EU or within. See highlight in red. We've had this debate and Merkel has got the answer loud and clear as well.

Once again, that is not a Brexit issue. It is a national one.

As for that blue bit well with UK and French joint action with the yanks who are to blame for the refugee crises sweeping ME and Libya? Big mess in Syria is about EU securing energy supply for Europe and corporate profits for American companies.

Germany and Italy already looking warmly at Russia and Putin and seeing the US as major threat to global peace in Europe. Europe is becoming increasingly more positive towards leaning to the East.

New silk road is getting closer to Europe. 👍

 

[Pat494]

Immigration might seem an impossible extra burden for Europe but in the words of Ronald Reagan " you ain't seen nothing yet ".

There is a population explosion in the 3rd world. Fuelled by increased medical care, lack of contraception and better diet. Estimates put India's population alone to rise to 3 billion by 2050.
You can guess where they will be headed.

Fortunately Merkel and her open door policies will be long gone by then ( started by Tony Blair ).

 

[Atilla]

Immigration might seem an impossible extra burden for Europe but in the words of Ronald Reagan " you ain't seen nothing yet ".

There is a population explosion in the 3rd world. Fuelled by increased medical care, lack of contraception and better diet. Estimates put India's population alone to rise to 3 billion by 2050.
You can guess where they will be headed.

Fortunately Merkel and her open door policies will be long gone by then ( started by Tony Blair ).

There is an ageing crises in the West including US with falling birth rates.

Impending medical care and pension crises is what we are looking at.


Once again controlling borders is a national issue! India or China's population or Global demographic issues have no bearing on Brexit.

It is simply deluded self confirming bias to continue pointing at EU-external global population and migration issues as some Brexit justifying highlights :!:

 

[Pat494]

It is simply deluded self confirming bias to pointing at EU-external global population and migration issues as some Brexit justifying highlights


A large part of the Brexit platform was built on just the immigration problem.
The millions that have come to Europe and the UK are a reality and definately no delusion.
You may not have been replaced at work by cheaper immigrant labour but many have. The bosses love it. They can build more houses and labour is cheaper.