Brexit and the Consequences

[sminicooper]

It's interesting that the referendum and its aftermath has started up a new kind of political culture whereby any result is open to challenge and interpretation despite having conformed to the rules and been decided fairly and squarely. I'm just wondering what will happen at the next general election when the losing side decides, that because the result was reasonably close (e.g. 52:48? – I think it will be a two horse race), that the voters didn't really understand what they were doing and therefore the result should be challenged by those that obviously did know what they were doing! In fact, we saw a bit of that from the Corbynistas after May's disastrous election: despite having won more votes and more seats than Jezza, it was put about (in not so many words) that Jezza actually had won the election – very appealing to the Snowflakes and almost believed in by Momentum.

Do we now have an ongoing thing with Brexit? I get the impression that most people, including Remainers, accept the verdict and that it is just the more vociferous and determined Remainers who have decided that the best course of action is to support an Exit that is in fact a BRINO (Brexit in name only). I don't have a problem with that in principle – it's their democratic right to fight lawfully for whatever they want. But what I do have a problem with is people who pretend that we are leaving when in fact under any reasonable definition of "leave" we would not be.

So I lay it down to the Remainers; if we don't meet the following conditions then we have not left:
1. we take control of our own law making
2. we take control of our own borders
3. we aren't in a/an/the/any customs union
4. we are free to trade as we wish anywhere in the world

Forget all the gloom and doom on both sides of the argument, forget Project Fear, ignore the stuff about the treachery of the civil service (we all know that Sir Humphrey Appleby is a wily old bird) and let's leave!

We have mega problems with NHS/transport/welfare/defence: none of which would be solved with the "magic money tree" alone, even if it did exist. It all comes back to leadership doesn't it? If UK plc were a football club, we would have had a new manager/trainers/board members in by now wouldn't we?

 

[Atilla]

It's interesting that the referendum and its aftermath has started up a new kind of political culture whereby any result is open to challenge and interpretation despite having conformed to the rules and been decided fairly and squarely. I'm just wondering what will happen at the next general election when the losing side decides, that because the result was reasonably close (e.g. 52:48? – I think it will be a two horse race), that the voters didn't really understand what they were doing and therefore the result should be challenged by those that obviously did know what they were doing! In fact, we saw a bit of that from the Corbynistas after May's disastrous election: despite having won more votes and more seats than Jezza, it was put about (in not so many words) that Jezza actually had won the election – very appealing to the Snowflakes and almost believed in by Momentum.

Do we now have an ongoing thing with Brexit? I get the impression that most people, including Remainers, accept the verdict and that it is just the more vociferous and determined Remainers who have decided that the best course of action is to support an Exit that is in fact a BRINO (Brexit in name only). I don't have a problem with that in principle – it's their democratic right to fight lawfully for whatever they want. But what I do have a problem with is people who pretend that we are leaving when in fact under any reasonable definition of "leave" we would not be.

So I lay it down to the Remainers; if we don't meet the following conditions then we have not left:
1. we take control of our own law making
2. we take control of our own borders
3. we aren't in a/an/the/any customs union
4. we are free to trade as we wish anywhere in the world

Forget all the gloom and doom on both sides of the argument, forget Project Fear, ignore the stuff about the treachery of the civil service (we all know that Sir Humphrey Appleby is a wily old bird) and let's leave!

We have mega problems with NHS/transport/welfare/defence: none of which would be solved with the "magic money tree" alone, even if it did exist. It all comes back to leadership doesn't it? If UK plc were a football club, we would have had a new manager/trainers/board members in by now wouldn't we?

Ehemmm SuperMini old boy just in case some condition going round hitting the elderly has touched you, small reminder... cough cough cough...

Referendum was advisory in nature only. ​

Does not give cart blanche cheque on politicians and brexiters running away with them selves.


Also, if I may kindly add - you mixing up a referendum with national elections every 4 years or so is not fair sport... Really now.

 

[barjon]

......It's interesting that the referendum and its aftermath has started up a new kind of political culture whereby any result is open to challenge and interpretation despite having conformed to the rules and been decided fairly and squarely. I'm just wondering what will happen at the next general election when the losing side decides, that because the result was reasonably close (e.g. 52:48? – I think it will be a two horse race), that the voters didn't really understand what they were doing and therefore the result should be challenged by those that obviously did know what they were doing! In fact, we saw a bit of that from the Corbynistas after May's disastrous election: despite having won more votes and more seats than Jezza, it was put about (in not so many words) that Jezza actually had won the election – very appealing to the Snowflakes and almost believed in by Momentum.......

But that’s precisely what our democracy is all about, smini. The losing party(ies)in a general election become the opposition. Their role is to challenge and test the incumbent government’s policies and put forward opposing views and courses of action. When challenged, the government cannot and does not refuse to engage, but argues it’s case and must win a parliamentary vote to take its policies forward into fruition.

 

[mike.]

Let me run a hypothetical situation past you, just for sh1t's & giggles..

Doc and I jumped in the DeLorean and went back to 24th june 2016. day after the referendum, It had emerged that the remain vote had won and were still in the EU, hooray :clap::clap: shout the remainers....Booo, fix shout the brexiteers

I say to the winning remainers, well done guys, it was a democratic vote and the majority of the country voted in favour of staying in, bravo....Us brexiteers just have a few minor problems with the vote but im sure we can iron things out..

1. We dont want to fully stay in,Obviously we didnt know what we were voting for. :whistling
2.Can we just leave a little bit ? maybe just deny free movement ?
3. How about another referendum ?

There's also a hundred and one other reasons but we will get to them later..

Laughable isn't it, .....Ring any bells ???

 

[Atilla]

Let me run a hypothetical situation past you, just for sh1t's & giggles..

Doc and I jumped in the DeLorean and went back to 24th june 2016. day after the referendum, It had emerged that the remain vote had won and were still in the EU, hooray :clap::clap: shout the remainers....Booo, fix shout the brexiteers

I say to the winning remainers, well done guys, it was a democratic vote and the majority of the country voted in favour of staying in, bravo....Us brexiteers just have a few minor problems with the vote but im sure we can iron things out..

1. We dont want to fully stay in,Obviously we didnt know what we were voting for. :whistling
2.Can we just leave a little bit ? maybe just deny free movement ?
3. How about another referendum ?

There's also a hundred and one other reasons but we will get to them later..

Laughable isn't it, .....Ring any bells ???

Actually Mike, Farage is on record speaking to Sky News (before he realised Brexit won the vote) that he'd continue campaigning to get Britain out of the EU.

I'll see if I can find it on youtube.

 

[mike.]

Ehemmm SuperMini old boy just in case some condition going round hitting the elderly has touched you, small reminder... cough cough cough...

Referendum was advisory in nature only. ​

Have another go....

 

[cantagril]

It's interesting that the referendum and its aftermath has started up a new kind of political culture whereby any result is open to challenge and interpretation despite having conformed to the rules and been decided fairly and squarely.

You're absolutely right on this point BUT, as I have suggested on more than one occasion, the voters were conned going into the EU all those years ago and have today been deceived / swindled / done over on leaving. Yes, it's been decided fairly and squarely but this doesn't matter if the other side is crossing it's fingers behind its back and the whole premise is based on a load of total bolleaux.

"Lies, damned lies and statistics"

 

[Atilla]

Have another go....

Knock your selves out...

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

 

[counter_violent]

You're absolutely right on this point BUT, as I have suggested on more than one occasion, the voters were conned going into the EU all those years ago and have today been deceived / swindled / done over on leaving. Yes, it's been decided fairly and squarely but this doesn't matter if the other side is crossing it's fingers behind its back and the whole premise is based on a load of total bolleaux.

"Lies, damned lies and statistics"

All remainers conveniently dismiss the elephant in the room.

There won't be an EU soon and they are going to look pretty damm stupid when the EU implodes.......... eh wot !

 

[mike.]

Knock your selves out...

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

Right back at ya....

Just a snippet to wet your whistle...

It should be noted that the election promise was to “let the people decide”. It was not a promise to hold an advisory referendum, with the final decision being left to Parliament. Nor was there any mention of minimum thresholds of percentage of vote or of turnout before the referendum would be binding. Therefore the British people were given a politically and constitutionally binding promise in the election manifesto of the successful party that they would be given the final and deciding say in a referendum in which the majority would prevail.

As a matter of constitutional practice, the inclusion of a policy in the election manifesto of a political party which achieves a majority at a general election gives rise to a constitutional mandate to implement that policy.

http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/referendum-binding.shtml

 

[sminicooper]

Ehemmm SuperMini old boy just in case some condition going round hitting the elderly has touched you, small reminder... cough cough cough...

Atilla - thanks for the tip! I must check tomorrow with some of my older, retired friends to find out if there's any danger of me being susceptible. I've been taking the anti-remain pills regularly and my doctor says that he'll happily put me on double the dose if I can get that £350 million per week for him.

I think all this Brexit stuff is starting to wear me out – only came onto this thread for a bit of light relief from the boring & routine stuff of trading. No worries though! Here's a link to my latest contribution to the art thread – so much more therapeutic than trading and politics: http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/220748-art-not-just-pretty-pics-41.html#post3011538

As always – a pleasure to hear from you.

 

[cantagril]

All remainers conveniently dismiss the elephant in the room.

There won't be an EU soon and they are going to look pretty damm stupid when the EU implodes.......... eh wot !

I think it comes down to whose room as to whether your elephant is grey or pink. Of late, the EU has a far better prognosis for survival, thanks to Brexit. Contrary to the reported rhetoric and hyperbole of mass media, entrenched positions have started to give way to an understanding that compromise is not just desirable but necessary. The lesson of not negotiating before the exit vote has been heard loud and clear and the congregation is reflecting on whether they can save their &rses first and their souls second.

The EU is just as much a moving target as is the UK, a factor that lends itself to elephantiasis.

 

[Splitlink]

All remainers conveniently dismiss the elephant in the room.

There won't be an EU soon and they are going to look pretty damm stupid when the EU implodes.......... eh wot !

All remainers are realists who have their interests in mind. Brexiters are dreamers--something like a good socialist, if there is such a thing. One day, you'll wake up, but it will too late.

I wish you all well, but do not want to be a part of Farage's, Johnson's or Gove's band of Merry Men.

 

[mike.]

Well it looks like some leadership is starting to emerge, Government ruled out any membership to the customs union last night, Still away to go yet ...

 

[cantagril]

Well it looks like some leadership is starting to emerge, Government ruled out any membership to the customs union last night, Still away to go yet ...

...and the fun goes on and on: not content with cocking up the baby / bathwater conundrum, we now have the "shooting oneself in both feet" phenomenon.

One of the real advantages to the UK over the last 4 or so decades has been free access to European markets and now that's gone too. The trade bit of the EU wasn't ideal but it was compromise that allowed the country to take advantage of the proximity of the continent.

I can't wait to find out how it's going to be theoretically possible to conserve the shreds of any benefit let alone implement the new framework in the real world.

As an aside: my ill-conceived move back to the UK will soon be an unpleasant memory as my move back in the other direction is (with luck) going to take place later this year.:clap:

 

[mike.]

.

One of the real advantages to the UK over the last 4 or so decades has been free access to European markets and now that's gone too. The trade bit of the EU wasn't ideal but it was compromise that allowed the country to take advantage of the proximity of the continent.

:

Not being in the customs union and having a “ free trade agreement “ with the EU are two different things entirely, We cannot trade with other countries inside a customs union, no if’s or but’s ...we were always going to leave it.

 

[cantagril]

Not being in the customs union and having a “ free trade agreement “ with the EU are two different things entirely, We cannot trade with other countries inside a customs union, no if’s or but’s ...we were always going to leave it.

Obviously, they're not the same thing and we are just in the middle of abandoning the former without have the latter being even planned, let alone in place.

I do not understand what you mean by "we cannot trade with other countries inside a customs union" ....

 

[FXX]

All remainers are realists who have their interests in mind. Brexiters are dreamers--something like a good socialist, if there is such a thing. One day, you'll wake up, but it will too late.

I wish you all well, but do not want to be a part of Farage's, Johnson's or Gove's band of Merry Men.

Remainers are delusional snowflakes

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[cantagril]

Remainers are delusional snowflakes

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

The voice of reason

 

[mike.]

I do not understand what you mean by "we cannot trade with other countries inside a customs union" ....

Afak the UK being a member of the EU customs union stops us negotiating trade deals with countries outside the EU, last year the government set up
the “ international trade committee “ to deal with this very issue, therefore it was always the plan to leave the EU customs union.