Brexit and the Consequences

So here we have been for decades, at first building walls, then taking them down, only for someone to even be considering putting one back up again. See how the media is stirring this pot?

But then the EU has been installing new barriers for a couple of years now. It just highlights the lack of knowledge that lies at the centre of the European Union.

There are no borders in the EU?

UK is leaving the EU so it can have a border!

How difficult can it be to get facts straight?


More importantly...

Morgan Stanley Is Right to Fear Labour, Corbyn Says


I'm with Corbyn on this one. Feck the banks. Power to the people. Blood sucking parasites. Super reply from Corbyn.

So as said before, Tories will bungle the economy. Labour will get in and turnover the banks. Fixing it all back together will fall to the LibDems. Tories will not get re-elected becoming the third party of British politics. Watch this space. (y)
Brexit May Leave Banks on the Hook for Impossible Contracts
 
There are no borders in the EU?

UK is leaving the EU so it can have a border!

How difficult can it be to get facts straight?

I know it can be difficult to follow the MSM nowadays, so much fake news, pay attention:

Estonia
Austria
Slovenia
Hungary
Serbia
Bulgaria
Greece
Spain (inc Ceuta & Melilla)

All of which have erected some form of fence or barrier on their borders in the last couple of years, all of which are members of the Shengan free movement zone, all of which are members of the EU.

Who knows what will happen with the Irish border, I haven't found a non-speculative source to provide any information on that yet! Ireland is outside Shengen, not sure what spin that puts on it.

Sorry, I forgot Poland, haven't they just shut down their borders also (if not erected bigger fences)?
 
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There are no borders in the EU?

UK is leaving the EU so it can have a border!

How difficult can it be to get facts straight?


More importantly...

Morgan Stanley Is Right to Fear Labour, Corbyn Says


I'm with Corbyn on this one. Feck the banks. Power to the people. Blood sucking parasites. Super reply from Corbyn.

So as said before, Tories will bungle the economy. Labour will get in and turnover the banks. Fixing it all back together will fall to the LibDems. Tories will not get re-elected becoming the third party of British politics. Watch this space. (y)
Brexit May Leave Banks on the Hook for Impossible Contracts

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL: good one
 
I know it can be difficult to follow the MSM nowadays, so much fake news, pay attention:

Estonia
Austria
Slovenia
Hungary
Serbia
Bulgaria
Greece
Spain (inc Ceuta & Melilla)

All of which have erected some form of fence or barrier on their borders in the last couple of years, all of which are members of the Shengan free movement zone, all of which are members of the EU.

Who knows what will happen with the Irish border, I haven't found a non-speculative source to provide any information on that yet! Ireland is outside Shengen, not sure what spin that puts on it.

Sorry, I forgot Poland, haven't they just shut down their borders also (if not erected bigger fences)?


I agree movement of Non-EU migrants need to be carefully controlled. Essentially we are talking about Syrians, Iraqis and Libyans whose countries have been destabilised as a consequence of US and UK policies. ISIS was originally created, supported, financed and encouraged to attack the Syrian regime. Millions of people have become refugees fleeing war on top of 100s of 000s killed and devastated in the aftermath of US & UK foreign policies.


In summary, thoses fences are to control movement of non-EU aliens which as I understand is what Brexiters want.

Seems more like twisting the news to match ones comprehension of events to me. I could be wrong.

Watching Andrew Marr morning show someone said we've invoked Brexit to take back control and have given it to the Irish. Parliament right now is not in charge of anything but a handful of niche players skewing debate and future of the UK. Right little pickle. Investments postponed. Businesses leaving. Leading international bodies and organisations relocating. No worry Moggy and Brexiters tell us we'll be able to have loadsa FTAs with the rest of the World. EU is not important anymore. It is UK with our great leader Michael Gove that will determine fate of EU.

It was also sickening of Moggy to appear saying Brexit will mean people up North will be able to afford cheaper shoes and clothes once we leave EU. Had to reach for the bucket.

Then there was Alan Milburn who has quit as the head of Social Mobility because there is nothing there from the Government to help deliver anything. Theresa May made a big speech and now does absolute zilch. Somebody wrote a great speech with no backing. Sounds good. Flat notes don't sound good but for Brexit ears it's all soooo different.

Somehow Moggy thinks and believes along with other Brexiters that these days are a fight for the nation's heart and soul helping the common man.

I'd expect Mr Milburn to be jumping with joy at the future if there was any hope of delivering more to the common man. He is a remainer apparently. Anyhow he sees no hope in stark contrast to all you hope and glory boys.
 

Europe Set to Award China `Holy Grail' With Tariff-Rules Revamp
By Jonathan Stearns
December 3, 2017, 4:00 AM GMT

European industries face greater onus in winning import duties
Biggest change to EU trade regime to take effect in December

European industries from steel to solar are bracing for a new set of tariff rules that may make it harder to fend off low-cost imports from China and other foreign countries.

European Union governments are due on Monday to rubber-stamp the biggest revamp of the bloc’s method for calculating duties aimed at countering below-cost -- or “dumped” -- imports. The move is a response to longstanding Chinese government demands for more favorable treatment while stopping short of saying those shipments are fairly priced.

The overhaul will end an EU presumption that Chinese exporters and those in nine other members of the World Trade Organization operate in non-market conditions. That approach, which has allowed for higher European anti-dumping duties, is being replaced by a more opaque procedure for determining whether imports unfairly undercut domestic producers.

“There’s going to be much more work for European industries to make their dumping cases,’’ said Laurent Ruessmann, a partner and trade expert in the Brussels office of law firm Fieldfisher LLP. “There’s a lot of discretion for EU trade authorities in the new system. The question is how that discretion is used and what the political influence will be.’’
Political, Economic Rewards

The EU carrot to China comes as both seek to claim a global leadership role in trade amid U.S. President Donald Trump’s protectionist stance, which has shaken the post-World War II commercial order. The U.S. has taken a different tack from the EU, rejecting China’s claim of market-economy status and refusing to alter how it calculates anti-dumping duties.

Europe is offering political and economic rewards to Beijing by removing China from the European list of non-market-economy countries in dumping investigations. While being the EU’s No. 2 trade partner behind the U.S., China is grouped with the likes of Belarus and North Korea in lacking market-economy designation by Europe and faces more European anti-dumping duties than any other country.

To read more about trade tension between the U.S. and China, click here

Such EU levies cover billions of euros of Chinese exports such as reinforcing steel, solar panels, aluminum foil, bicycles, screws, paper, kitchenware and ironing boards, curbing competition for producers across the 28-nation bloc.

“China has coveted market-economy status as the ultimate recognition from the West,” said Hosuk Lee-Makiyama, director of the European Centre of International Political Economy in Brussels. “It’s their holy grail.”
European Protection

The EU has traditionally used other nations’ figures to calculate anti-dumping levies against China on the grounds that Chinese state intervention artificially lowers domestic prices and makes them an unreliable indicator of a good’s “normal value.” This practice, known as the analogue-country model, has resulted in higher EU duty rates against Chinese exporters and -- by extension -- more protection for European manufacturers.

China’s agreement on joining the WTO 16 years ago made it harder for the EU to justify using the analogue-country model against Chinese exporters after a specific provision expired in December 2016. To drive home the point, Beijing filed a complaint the same month against the EU at the Geneva-based global trade arbiter, hastening European deliberations over an overhaul of anti-dumping rules.

EU legislators negotiated a deal in October and the full European Parliament offered its endorsement the following month, leaving national governments to give their final approval on Dec. 4.

The legislation, due to be published on Dec. 18, features elements of compromise between free-trade governments in northern Europe allied with China and more protectionist member countries in the south.
‘An Elegant Solution’

“It’s quite an elegant solution,” said Lee-Makiyama. “The EU has found a near-impossible compromise between the demands of European industry that thinks China is the enemy and the bloc’s legal obligations under the WTO. There remains plenty of scope to defend manufacturers in Europe because, in a way, Europe is abolishing the diploma just as China graduates.”

To ease the impact of the new system on European manufacturers, the EU will have recourse to a special formula for calculating anti-dumping duties against countries whose markets are deemed to have “significant distortions’’ resulting from state intervention. Under the new rules, the EU will be able to construct the normal value of a good in an exporting country using undistorted costs.

In a sign of the balance that the new system strikes, the Chinese government is sending out skeptical signals about the EU changes.

The Ministry of Commerce in Beijing said in mid-November the notion of significant market distortions will cause “serious damage” to the WTO’s anti-dumping legal system. The ministry also said “China reserves its rights under the WTO dispute-settlement mechanism and will take the necessary measures to protect the rights of Chinese companies.”

Lawyers are having their own Brexit.

More than a thousand U.K. lawyers have registered in Ireland since 2016 to make sure they can represent clients in European Union courts after the U.K. leaves the bloc. Figures from the Law Society of Ireland show 511 attorneys from England and Wales have registered in Ireland this year, on top of 806 who did so in 2016 -- a total of 1,317.

Usually, only about 50 to 100 a year make the move, according to Ken Murphy, director-general of the Law Society of Ireland. Few attorneys are actually moving to Ireland, he said.
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The lawyers, mostly antitrust and trade specialists, also fear they’ll lose a right that blocks authorities investigating a company from seizing the legal advice provided by its attorneys. Loss of the privilege, which is grounded in EU membership, could put U.K. lawyers “at some disadvantage” against those retaining the right, Murphy said.

London’s status as a global hub for advice on EU competition law and regulation may fade if attorneys lose access to the European Court of Justice. Mickael Laurans, who manages the Law Society of England and Wales’ international team, warned that more firms may move staff to Brussels, Paris, and other regional hubs.

Ministers at the U.K.’s Department for Exiting the European Union believe “people holding qualifications or in the process of acquiring them should be allowed to continue or begin their careers as they do now” throughout the region, Brexit secretary David Davis said last month.

Lawyers aren’t willing to take a risk, and Laurans said London’s loss of prestige may present an opportunity to other European cities.

“It may be that English firms will need to look at where they position people,” he said. “A lot of EU law advice is done out of London today. One question is, to what extent will this continue in the future?”

Eversheds Sutherland LLP had the largest number of lawyers registering in Ireland in 2017, at 132, according to the Law Society of Ireland. Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP was second with 130 and Slaughter & May was third with 79. Spokespeople for Freshfields and Slaughter & May declined to comment and a spokeswoman for Eversheds said no-one was available.

It is just one of the ways in which law firms in the U.K. are feeling the effects of the country’s 2016 vote to leave the European Union. London’s biggest firms benefited from the weaker pound in the wake of the referendum, as they sought out growth overseas. The weaker currency also helped push up salaries for some of the city’s top young lawyers. Meanwhile the U.K. government is trying to keep London at the center of European commercial legal disputes after Brexit.

Registering in Ireland takes a month or two and requires some paperwork and an administrative fee of about 300 euros ($357). The U.K.’s departure may complicate things, Murphy said.

Laurans said it’s possible that future generations will have to take an exam to register in Ireland, which would be “onerous.”

The right to speak in an EU court, known as “rights of audience,” is restricted to lawyers who are qualified and regulated in a member state, “so on the face of it that would exclude U.K. lawyers post-Brexit,” Murphy said.

Murphy said attorneys saw their clients’ right to take advice without having it shared with investigation authorities as sacred.

Some lawyers have tried to bolster their ability to work in the EU by seeking nationality of a member state, Murphy said. He said he knew of lawyers that had become Irish and Belgian citizens.


 
Essentially we are talking about Syrians, Iraqis and Libyans whose countries have been destabilised as a consequence of US and UK policies. ISIS was originally created, supported, financed and encouraged to attack the Syrian regime. Millions of people have become refugees fleeing war on top of 100s of 000s killed and devastated in the aftermath of US & UK foreign policies.


In summary, thoses fences are to control movement of non-EU aliens which as I understand is what Brexiters want.

It's a well known argument that Brexiteers want an end to uncontrolled migration, both of EU and non-EU migrants. Making that happen will be entirely down to the controlling government of the day. And now that we are in a 2 party politics situation, there would appear to be no chance of that happening anyway. Although latest figures show a drop in net migration, I haven't seen detailed figures for how that is distributed so it may be the case that the govt is getting a grip, or it's because more Brits are emigrating or that more migrants are leaving.

It's also a well known argument that genuine refugees make up a vastly smaller percentage of economic migrants, there are a large quantity of migrants now coming from outside MENA. The EU countries that have erected borders have recognised the migrant problem imposed by the EU and have taken steps to protect themselves, contrary to their Shengan obligations, so to state that the EU has no borders is clearly incorrect.

Whilst undoubtably US/UK/French/Iraqi/Iranian/Saudi/Syrian/Turkish/Russian/etc policy has had an effect on the rise of ISIS, you have to remember that Muslims have been at war with each other since the inception of Islam, a 1400 year old conflict that won't disappear and doesn't take much for them to continue with. Muslims fighting Muslims will continue for as long as Islam will continue irregardless of external interventions.

Those countries that have been on the frontline of the Islamic world for centuries understand this last paragraph and understand the internal conflict that Muslims have, unfortunately the central EU (and the UK) does not, this is why they have sought to protect themselves (aside from the immense social, cultural and economic burdens that they would be imposing on their own citizens and public services, such as is now being seen in the rest of the EU and the UK).
 
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It's a well known argument that Brexiteers want an end to uncontrolled migration, both of EU and non-EU migrants. Making that happen will be entirely down to the controlling government of the day. And now that we are in a 2 party politics situation, there would appear to be no chance of that happening anyway. Although latest figures show a drop in net migration, I haven't seen detailed figures for how that is distributed so it may be the case that the govt is getting a grip, or it's because more Brits are emigrating or that more migrants are leaving.

It's also a well known argument that genuine refugees make up a vastly smaller percentage of economic migrants, there are a large quantity of migrants now coming from outside MENA. The EU countries that have erected borders have recognised the migrant problem imposed by the EU and have taken steps to protect themselves, contrary to their Shengan obligations, so to state that the EU has no borders is clearly incorrect.

Whilst undoubtably US/UK/French/Iraqi/Iranian/Saudi/Syrian/Turkish/Russian/etc policy has had an effect on the rise of ISIS, you have to remember that Muslims have been at war with each other since the inception of Islam, a 1400 year old conflict that won't disappear and doesn't take much for them to continue with. Muslims fighting Muslims will continue for as long as Islam will continue irregardless of external interventions.

Those countries that have been on the frontline of the Islamic world for centuries understand this last paragraph and understand the internal conflict that Muslims have, unfortunately the central EU (and the UK) does not, this is why they have sought to protect themselves (aside from the immense social, cultural and economic burdens that they would be imposing on their own citizens and public services, such as is now being seen in the rest of the EU and the UK).

I'm afraid mixing Brexit with non-EU migration or with the need to control migration is a fallacy. If you don't have data, you don't have facts then your response about controlling migration either way will be off target.

History lesson on faiths killing each other for their love of God has been with us and will continue to do so as long as god delusion is bundled and packaged for human consumption and I agree with you here. I would not have singled out muslims however, but included all established and manufactured religions. Dare we mention UK & Ireland... Can't all just be about stealing other peoples potatoes, can it?
 
I would not have singled out muslims however, but included all established and manufactured religions.

How are you expected to address the problems of MENA and the resulting EU migration crisis and global Jihadi threat without actually addressing the underlying causes of those problems? I don't see issues with Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists, Bhuddists etc, I only see issues with Islam. How can you ignore the plight of Muslims and address their problems at the same time?

At least Trump and Saudi's/Bahrainis appear to be making moves to address the Iranian threat, that will hopefully go someway to addressing these problems, which in turn should benefit us all, but it is a long and rocky road.
 
How are you expected to address the problems of MENA and the resulting EU migration crisis and global Jihadi threat without actually addressing the underlying causes of those problems? I don't see issues with Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists, Bhuddists etc, I only see issues with Islam. How can you ignore the plight of Muslims and address their problems at the same time?

At least Trump and Saudi's/Bahrainis appear to be making moves to address the Iranian threat, that will hopefully go someway to addressing these problems, which in turn should benefit us all, but it is a long and rocky road.


It's all about the oil and interference in the ME. Underlying causes you ask? What are they in your opinion? Plz don't say they don't like us or our freedoms or way of life. I don't recall Iran attacking any country. I do recall Bush outlining their strategy in his axis of evil speech alongside Iraq, Syria and Iran. I've lost count where I've indicated destabilising Iran is on the agenda since 9/11.

Point remains US+UK since the discovery of oil as a major source of energy have been involved in the ME, toppling regimes and implementing their puppets ever since.

Much like in Latin America, people had their rights for electing legitimate governments that US did not favour trampled over for years. US supported fascist junta regimes in supposed resistance to communism, along the way killing and torturing 100s and 000s of people in the process. All helped and financed by CIA operations.

You are really going off tangent here anyhow and Brexit has nothing to do with Jihadis or vice-er-versa. Moreover, EU migrants aren't muslims.

Either way - Brexit has more to do with nationalism and excess migration into UK because UK leaders have opted for that path to avoid an impending pensions crises, productivity issue, skills shortages and past history with wage inflation due to industrial strikes.

You can see this same three headed beast will be rearing three heads again very soon. You keep focusing on your jihadie johnnies and see how far it gets you?

Bet that's all too much for you to grasp but identifying johnny foreigner is so much more easier to point a finger at.

I agree non-EU migration needs to be controlled for sure but we all need to wise up to the distinctions and the reasons on what we are trying to achieve and why?
 
You are really going off tangent here anyhow and Brexit has nothing to do with Jihadis or vice-er-versa. Moreover, EU migrants aren't muslims.

Do you seriously believe that the EU opening it's borders in 2015 causing a migrant crisis had no impact on the thoughts of people heading to the referendum vote in June 2016? Get real, of course it did! It became a major Brexit issue and most likely swung the vote to Leave, the Jihadi terrorist threat was already well understood at that point and also raised fears and influenced voters. Rightly so, given what has happened since. Until then it was probably an almost safe Remain vote. Ignore the silent majority at your peril.

When you say EU migrants are not Muslims are you referring to EU citizens? The migrants from the 2015 crisis onwards nearly all originate from Muslim majority countries, most of which will be granted EU citizenship.
 
Do you seriously believe that the EU opening it's borders in 2015 causing a migrant crisis had no impact on the thoughts of people heading to the referendum vote in June 2016? Get real, of course it did! It became a major Brexit issue and most likely swung the vote to Leave, the Jihadi terrorist threat was already well understood at that point and also raised fears and influenced voters. Rightly so, given what has happened since. Until then it was probably an almost safe Remain vote. Ignore the silent majority at your peril.

When you say EU migrants are not Muslims are you referring to EU citizens? The migrants from the 2015 crisis onwards nearly all originate from Muslim majority countries, most of which will be granted EU citizenship.


FGS matey, UK has been dancing with whether to or not be part of Europe since the conception of EEC many moons ago since WWII

Why do you think after 1973 only two years after another referendum was held in 1975? UK simply can't make up its mind whether it is actually a part of Europe or not. Considering it took 11 years to get in after French opposition that's a pretty mixed up mind set wouldn't you say? I don't recall johnny jihadies influencing the great British thinker back then do you?

You freaking bark on about muslims hating each other referring to 000s of years of religious tosh and fixated on some jihadies as justifying Brexit cause.

You need to get out more. Knock your self out and get the Fred out of EU to protect your self form lil ol jihadies - no big deal. World will continue to spin on it's axis.

All the best (y)
 
Brexit studies were conducted but this is just an attempt to bury them so Parliament can not force their disclosure.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...no-sector-by-sector-analysis-of-brexit-impact


The findings make grim reading.


This is what can be termed contempt of Parliament imo. (n)


Nationalist, talking about taking back control to Parliament whilst being treacherous in the process to the very cause he claims to support. Shocking and diabolical. Same goes for Boris and Gove.

We now have fecking Jihadi Johnny's determining outcome of the UK national interest, because British public are seeing red over a single migration issue which isn't even related to Brexit.
 
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The Eastern edge of the EU must be well over 1,000 miles long but as far as I am aware there is no hard border with check points etc. So what's the big fuss over the Irish border ?
The local residents would soon adapt to the differing prices. Junkers etc. are just making difficulties to up the price of escape. Colditz had better terms.
 
Brexit studies were conducted but this is just an attempt to bury them so Parliament can not force their disclosure.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...no-sector-by-sector-analysis-of-brexit-impact


The findings make grim reading.


This what can be termed contempt of Parliament. (n)

TM's treatment of DUP and Northern Ireland is unbelievable. These small parties come into their own in coalition governments. Cataluña had the same problem with a ten seat party called CUP.. Very left wing it called, and succeeded, in the removal of the president, Artur Mas. With that party, the Independents obtained a one seat majority. It is very dangerous to have coalitions with these small fry. They become king makers and threaten to leave the coalition as a means of achieving what they want. It is either give in to their demands, or call another election.

I watch this Irish border issue with a great deal of interest.
 
I’m with James here, time to walk away Theresa, You agree Atilla ?? :whistling


His not clever as you might think he is. Look at Trump the billionaire. Another numpty. Just because a person is rich or successful in business doesn't make them bleeding expert on all things. If you want dental treatment do you go to your local butcher who has a house on top of the hill.

There are 1000s of successful businessmen. Why do they keep talking to this numpty who wanted UK to join the Euro? Has an axe to grind against the EU and fall in pound helps his bottom line I'll never know???


He thinks manufacturing declined because of high interest rates for decades and employment laws. Really??? European labour laws far worse and demanding than UK ones and yet Italy, Spain, France and Germany all produce cars. Interest rates and Euro also on par.


There you go. Stick this in your pipe... :cheesy:
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/e...May-Brexit-Jeremy-Corbyn-Conservatives-Labour
 
TM's treatment of DUP and Northern Ireland is unbelievable. These small parties come into their own in coalition governments. Cataluña had the same problem with a ten seat party called CUP.. Very left wing it called, and succeeded, in the removal of the president, Artur Mas. With that party, the Independents obtained a one seat majority. It is very dangerous to have coalitions with these small fry. They become king makers and threaten to leave the coalition as a means of achieving what they want. It is either give in to their demands, or call another election.

I watch this Irish border issue with a great deal of interest.


To think they paid £100m each for those 10 seats too. Basement bargain to retain power.

Stupid moo should step down in respect of Parliamentary process but I'd doubt it.

Merkel now there is an honourable and great World leader. Not interested in making deals with minority parties to secure her seat. Said stuff it. Not on those terms to negotiations and said she'd rather go to the people again.


(y)
 
Merkel now there is an honourable and great World leader. Not interested in making deals with minority parties to secure her seat. Said stuff it. Not on those terms to negotiations and said she'd rather go to the people again.


(y)

And she will lose....her open borders didn’t sit well with the electorate, she’s had a good run..
 
And she will lose....her open borders didn’t sit well with the electorate, she’s had a good run..

Maybe and maybe not!

Point is she has principals beyond retaining power. (y)

Top girl compared to our bot something or other.. .
 
TM was probably the best qualified out of a moderate bunch at the time, Being daughter of a vicar she doesn’t sport the usual makeup for a p.m.. She has certain quality’s and lacks in others, Stuck between a rock and a hard place, She can’t win whatever she does with such divided opinions on brexit, Who would want her job ??
 
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