Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

Pat,
I think the answer to that lies in this post by sminicoopper a few pages back. My view is that we should honour our commitments up to the day we leave - but only pay what we're obliged to pay. Anything above that the EU can 'go whistle'!
Tim.

I don't think that's correct.

We are under no obligation to pay anything else to the EU once we leave!

Assuming legal advice given to Davies was / is correct we can leave and not have to pay a penny ever after.

We are paying to have a 2 year transitional working period and a post leave trade agreement.


Nothing to do with commitments which have always been two way. Or pensions as being 2nd largest member that's all reciprocal stuff.

 

[tomorton]

Even though I've never really liked Noel Gallagher, in a kind of less formal way he adds to my view that there really is Hobson's choice when it comes to voting for one of the main political parties :cheesy:

noel-gallagher-****-jeremy-corbyn-communist

Like a stopped clock can sometimes give the right time, even an idiot can say the right things occasionally.

 

[Pat494]

imho if the EU had agreed to reforms the vote would have been in their favour.
But no they insist on being pig headed.

Well what they don't seem able to grasp is that the EU really does need reform to be a club where the countries are happy to be members. Obvious things like not having 2 administrative centres ( Brussels and Luxemberg ), not too much immigration, not tied too closely, control fraud etc. etc.

To give Cameron some credit he did try but came away empty handied. The commissioners/country leaders just don't get it at all. They are edging ever nearer to a united states of Europe with strong centralised Govt based in Berlin/Paris. A sort of Fascist dream.

There is governing by majority agreement and iron fist coercion. The latter is completely unacceptable in Britain. The other 26 may NOT be allowed a choice in coming years.

The world is getting so competitive with the countries like India, China etc. having got the message that the EU is stuffed if it does what the USA is doing and turning in on itself with tariff barriers.

 

[Signalcalc]

imho if the EU had agreed to reforms the vote would have been in their favour.
But no they insist on being pig headed.

Well what they don't seem able to grasp is that the EU really does need reform to be a club where the countries are happy to be members. Obvious things like not having 2 administrative centres ( Brussels and Luxemberg ), not too much immigration, not tied too closely, control fraud etc. etc.

But there is nothing for them to grasp, everything they do is just implementing the ideology of the EU as it was first conceived, anything else would be straying from that plan. So for them, you either conform or leave, it is not designed to be all inclusive and democratic. In a nutshell a totalitarian regime.

 

[Pat494]

But there is nothing for them to grasp, everything they do is just implementing the ideology of the EU as it was first conceived, anything else would be straying from that plan. So for them, you either conform or leave, it is not designed to be all inclusive and democratic. In a nutshell a totalitarian regime.

Assuming you are right, totalitarian regimes put down dissent with violence.
No thanks

 

[sminicooper]

Assuming you are right, totalitarian regimes put down dissent with violence.
No thanks

Catalonia.

 

[Atilla]

Catalonia.

You mean like leave Spain and join the EU :cheesy:

 

[Signalcalc]

Assuming you are right, totalitarian regimes put down dissent with violence.
No thanks

Well with the formation of an EU army, they will have all the instruments available to them should things get a little out of hand.

"I believe the primary purpose of the drive for a European Army is far more political than military. After all statehood is symbolised by possession of armed forces. In its push for greater political, social and economic union towards its aim of a United States of Europe, Brussels sees an army as being an essential accessory."

Col Bob Stuart from here: Nato beware European Army

 

[sminicooper]

Well with the formation of an EU army, they will have all the instruments available to them should things get a little out of hand.

"I believe the primary purpose of the drive for a European Army is far more political than military. After all statehood is symbolised by possession of armed forces. In its push for greater political, social and economic union towards its aim of a United States of Europe, Brussels sees an army as being an essential accessory."

Col Bob Stuart from here: Nato beware European Army

Col Stewart, who knows a thing or two about NATO and armies is right. Going by past performance of the European army element of NATO then militarily they are probably of little threat to anybody. But from a political standpoint it has the potential to be extremely dangerous.

 

[timsk]

There's a lot of unnecessary fuss about the Irish border. IMO, David Davis should just walk away from that and say to Monsieur Barnier: 'your problem mate, nowt to do with us'. Doubtless, Barnier will respond with something along the lines of: 'we have to sort out the Irish border and agree the divorce bill before we talk about trade'. To which DD should just quote Boris and say: 'Go whistle'. At which point we default to WTO rules - job done.

There will come a time when Mrs. May, DD and the Brexit negotiating team are going to have to man up and start making some demands of their own. Put the spotlight back on the EU and highlight to the world just how unreasonable, intransigent and inflexible they really are. That will be doing a great service to the poor countries that will remain imprisoned in it long after we're set free.
Tim.

 

[mike.]

At which point we default to WTF rules - job done.


Tim.

Im liking these new rules Tim, "what the feck" rules

 

[sminicooper]

There's a lot of unnecessary fuss about the Irish border. IMO, David Davis should just walk away from that and say to Monsieur Barnier: 'your problem mate, nowt to do with us'. Doubtless, Barnier will respond with something along the lines of: 'we have to sort out the Irish border and agree the divorce bill before we talk about trade'. To which DD should just quote Boris and say: 'Go whistle'. At which point we default to WTO rules - job done.

There will come a time when Mrs. May, DD and the Brexit negotiating team are going to have to man up and start making some demands of their own. Put the spotlight back on the EU and highlight to the world just how unreasonable, intransigent and inflexible they really are. That will be doing a great service to the poor countries that will remain imprisoned in it long after we're set free.
Tim.

That time is now rapidly approaching. I see that Tusk is now in cahoots with the Irish Republic in starting a game of sillybuggers over the border. Do remember that the Republic had to vote three times before they got to the answer that the EU required – so they're quite used to Brussels pulling the strings. The only reason the EU is taking their silly political stance (even to the disadvantage of their own members) is because they see our PM as weak and unable to see the way forward herself. Their endgame is to screw us over for shed loads of money and if they can disadvantage us in trade terms into the bargain then it all adds up to a good political deal for the EU and will serve as an example to any other potential defectors. In earlier times they would have been given a good handbagging and that would have been the end of it!

Tim is right, the time has come to call their bluff. The border "problem" (it was virtually an open border for years predating the EU) has an easy solution postulated by JRM:

“The solution was actually set out to the committee by the head of HMRC, on Wednesday, when he said that there was absolutely no need for hard border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland, he could implement Government policy and there are declarations that people could make on customs, the same way they do with VAT, and he had no problem with implementing Government policy."

“Therefore, it is up to the European Union and the Republic of Ireland if they wanted to impose their own hard border, but the UK wasn't going to, didn't need to, and there is your solution.”

Mr Rees-Mogg added: “This is a very straightforward issue and particularly if the UK maintains zero tariffs on the rest of the EU, which I expect it will want to do, then there is very little in the way of customs declarations.
​

“Some things are already done on an all-Ireland basis, animal standards are done on an all-Ireland basis, so that is all covered.”​

 

[Atilla]

Perhaps off topic a little but it is interesting to read this article and let me know what you think of the Daily Trash article compared to stance of Ireland now?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...t-banking-crisis-hibernia-forum-keith-redmond




More importantly, I was looking for articles about regret or remoaners re: Ireland choosing to stay in the EU and couldn't find any.

Although Moggy dick and few other mention countries considering leaving EU after instigation by politically ambitious bodies but the people subsequently deciding to stay they don't say anything about the why they've changed their minds. Basically, Moggy nob and the likes look at the retake as EU forcing their votes but not why people change their minds.

Somehow, peeps changing their mind is not democratic! Surely no one does that? Do they? :whistling

 

[sminicooper]

Perhaps off topic a little but it is interesting to read this article and let me know what you think of the Daily Trash article compared to stance of Ireland now?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...t-banking-crisis-hibernia-forum-keith-redmond




More importantly, I was looking for articles about regret or remoaners re: Ireland choosing to stay in the EU and couldn't find any.

Although Moggy dick and few other mention countries considering leaving EU after instigation by politically ambitious bodies but the people subsequently deciding to stay. Basically, Moggy nob and the likes look at the retake but not peoples will in changing their minds.

Peeps changing their minds is not democratic! Surely no one does that? Do they? :whistling

The problem with the Express is that it has a long history of anti-EU and of course, being a newspaper is not afraid to indulge in a teensy weensy little bit of biased reporting (maybe that's where the BBC learned it from?). They now have a proper political editor so the whole slant of the paper is now more politically biased. In practice they appear to have substituted one type of trash for another but that seems to be a problem with all newspapers these days. I only ever take notice of what they report as supposedly fact; but they are extremely useful (just like yourself if I may say so Atilla) in providing a refreshingly alternative point of view!

The problem with Irish politics (as many British politicians know to their cost) is that it is fiendishly complicated and there will always be a party to support your view no matter what it is. So anything could happen. But as far as last March's Express article is concerned – it's just another point of view IMHO.

As regards buyers' remorse, I don't think you'll see any real reaction from the other 27 until after we have left (if indeed we ever do).

 

[Atilla]

The problem with the Express is that it has a long history of anti-EU and of course, being a newspaper is not afraid to indulge in a teensy weensy little bit of biased reporting (maybe that's where the BBC learned it from?). They now have a proper political editor so the whole slant of the paper is now more politically biased. In practice they appear to have substituted one type of trash for another but that seems to be a problem with all newspapers these days. I only ever take notice of what they report as supposedly fact; but they are extremely useful (just like yourself if I may say so Atilla) in providing a refreshingly alternative point of view!

The problem with Irish politics (as many British politicians know to their cost) is that it is fiendishly complicated and there will always be a party to support your view no matter what it is. So anything could happen. But as far as last March's Express article is concerned – it's just another point of view IMHO.

As regards buyers' remorse, I don't think you'll see any real reaction from the other 27 until after we have left (if indeed we ever do).

As you rightly say Brexit certainly needs a little bit of humour and I seem to have discovered my purpose in life.

Like your teensy weensy little bit of biased reporting which made me smile. Except, thinking about it, it's not biased it's just so totally wrong. Here we have a GREAT opportunity from Ireland to put the boot into Brussels and what do they do? Score an own goal.

Let's hope they shoot in the right direction... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41889293

Ireland playing football is always a difficult watch. They try so hard and get no where...


Anyhow, now Northern Ireland wants assurances too. Oh boy! That Theresa May must be wondering whether she'll get a refund on that £1bn deal. :cheesy:

 

[Signalcalc]

That time is now rapidly approaching. I see that Tusk is now in cahoots with the Irish Republic in starting a game of sillybuggers over the border. Do remember that the Republic had to vote three times before they got to the answer that the EU required – so they're quite used to Brussels pulling the strings. The only reason the EU is taking their silly political stance (even to the disadvantage of their own members) is because they see our PM as weak and unable to see the way forward herself. Their endgame is to screw us over for shed loads of money and if they can disadvantage us in trade terms into the bargain then it all adds up to a good political deal for the EU and will serve as an example to any other potential defectors. In earlier times they would have been given a good handbagging and that would have been the end of it!

Tim is right, the time has come to call their bluff. The border "problem" (it was virtually an open border for years predating the EU) has an easy solution postulated by JRM:

“The solution was actually set out to the committee by the head of HMRC, on Wednesday, when he said that there was absolutely no need for hard border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland, he could implement Government policy and there are declarations that people could make on customs, the same way they do with VAT, and he had no problem with implementing Government policy."

“Therefore, it is up to the European Union and the Republic of Ireland if they wanted to impose their own hard border, but the UK wasn't going to, didn't need to, and there is your solution.”

Mr Rees-Mogg added: “This is a very straightforward issue and particularly if the UK maintains zero tariffs on the rest of the EU, which I expect it will want to do, then there is very little in the way of customs declarations.
​

“Some things are already done on an all-Ireland basis, animal standards are done on an all-Ireland basis, so that is all covered.”​

Imagine the economic boost that would bring for Ireland and the UK, a win-win for us, but the EU masters would hate it, I told you UKGOV is a master of manipulation, the EU still stands no chance :clap:

£50 Billion is just a distraction.

What will Trump tweet about it (if/when it happens)

 

[Pat494]

The Micks had better start practicing their German and French, come the breakout of UK from Stalag Europe.

Non non non nein nein nein

Somebody else's problem at last, after 1,000 years.

:clap:

 

[Pat494]

If the EU ***** decide to put an electrified fence, watch towers etc. up on the Irish border, the UK should insist they do it on the Eire side and we won't contribute.

 

[Atilla]

If the EU ***** decide to put an electrified fence, watch towers etc. up on the Irish border, the UK should insist they do it on the Eire side and we won't contribute.

Steady teddy.

We are discussing a custom border to check flow of goods and services, that's all.

Watch towers eh??? I think you should ease off on those festive spirits.

 

[Signalcalc]

So here we have been for decades, at first building walls, then taking them down, only for someone to even be considering putting one back up again. See how the media is stirring this pot?

But then the EU has been installing new barriers for a couple of years now. It just highlights the lack of knowledge that lies at the centre of the European Union.