Brexit and the Consequences

[sminicooper]

Negotiations rumble on!

"The UK is a laughing stock. At home and abroad. The EU sees nothing but a quivering and fawning coward. The rest of the World sees the same, and shake their heads in astonishment. Barnier has only to lift an eyebrow and the British negotiators fall back as if they have been poleaxed. The UK appears paralyzed with awe and fear as it beholds the mighty EU."

Read all of it here: http://commentcentral.co.uk/december-council-summit-is-judgement-day/

 

[Pat494]

But who, exactly, are the hard left and hard right parties, who is classifying them as such, as far as I can see there aren't any who could even form any kind of opposition.

I was thinking more of a hard right in Europe. With Merkel on the ropes there is a free space for them in Germany. Austria has a hard right in public while some lurk in the other EU countries.

 

[Atilla]

IF you watch this clip IDS says EU have got them selves in a muddle.

What a clown! What a joker


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...g-bitten-again-in-game-of-brexit-brinkmanship

 

[Signalcalc]

I was thinking more of a hard right in Europe. With Merkel on the ropes there is a free space for them in Germany. Austria has a hard right in public while some lurk in the other EU countries.

Phew, at least it's not in Britain (yet) eh!

I haven't looked into the European hard right parties yet, I've only seen news snippets mostly from MSM, so skeptical I currently am. From what I've seen so far the German AFD is a populist party of the people, not happy in the main, with immigration and EU policies in general, similar to UKIP - not exactly hard right, but very popular.

Not sure about Austria yet though, my impression is people with a strong national identity that want it to remain that way and not be affected by EU policies, similar to Poland, Hungary, Czechs etc, people that have suffered under many totalitarian regimes in the past, but I'm not sure what affect that is having on their politics today. Will be interesting research.

Very interesting where Germany will go though, if replaced with a more centre right than Merkel isn't.

 

[Signalcalc]

"The UK is a laughing stock. At home and abroad. The EU sees nothing but a quivering and fawning coward. The rest of the World sees the same, and shake their heads in astonishment. Barnier has only to lift an eyebrow and the British negotiators fall back as if they have been poleaxed. The UK appears paralyzed with awe and fear as it beholds the mighty EU."

Read all of it here: http://commentcentral.co.uk/december-council-summit-is-judgement-day/

The British government is masterful at deception and psychological manipulation, not only of its own people, but also of it's [temporary] adversaries. The EU doesn't stand a chance.

No, that's not ^^^^^ Orwell :cheesy:

 

[Jason101]

The advent of AI is really going to put the cat amongst the pigeons. The corporate bosses will love them as they don't want holidays, sick pay etc.
The Unions should worry as they are replacing human workers.

But who, exactly, are the hard left and hard right parties, who is classifying them as such, as far as I can see there aren't any who could even form any kind of opposition.

Being short-termist's I doubt govt have even thought about a long term strategy for mass unemployment caused by AI, never mind the unintended consequences.

I can see that until all that is sorted out, they will be adopting the basic benefit for all whereby everyone receives a minimum income each month, who would pay for that is unclear, maybe the lucky few left working will be highly taxed or the corporates making all the money will be, but given the current state of tax avoidance amongst the rich its going to be a difficult task for future governments to deal with. Change never stops does it!

No, there is no hard right party represented in Parliament.

On the left, Labour is led by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, both Marxists. There isn't much space further left than that.

Hi, A lot of people aren't going to like this so here I go...

The basic universal income is not just something that may happen in the future. It has already started and is happening right now and not just in Finland.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/19/basic-income-finland-low-wages-fewer-jobs

It is happening here in England, it is slowly creeping in through the back door.
It is most obvious in that the vast, vast majority of benefit receivers in this country are in full time work. From Working tax credits and housing benefits through to NHS and road users.

To break even on net out (ie tax) to net in (ie benefits) in one particular year. You need to be earning between £38-£40K.
The average UK salary is about £28K.

That is based on a single year of work. Now take into account years spent prior to work from pre-school to school and retirement and care and any hospital visits, time off work, child birth etc etc, it is estimated that this life time break even figure means a salary of between £75-100K is required. Which put you in the top 5% of workers.
(So if you are not earning about £100k and you have a family, you are one of the bloody scroungers you have probably moaned about.)

This trend is only going in one direction, helped along by the inevitability of population growth and the growth of AI.

This type of territory is not far off communism.
This is why UK politics is bending towards the left.

There is no real right wing party in the UK. The conservatives are taking up the middle ground. They are taking up traditional left wing policies such as electricity price caps and the latest stamp duty measures). And the left are moving even further left. As an inevitable consequence of human development.

 

[sminicooper]

The British government is masterful at deception and psychological manipulation, not only of its own people, but also of it's [temporary] adversaries. The EU doesn't stand a chance.

No, that's not ^^^^^ Orwell :cheesy:

Usually I would agree with that – it's just that with these negotiations I'm not really sure whether they are being very cunning and deceitful (Perfidious Albion) or the opposite. I would be a lot less concerned if the Maybot had a better track record in competency. Despite my misgivings there does appear to be a very determined woman concealed in there somewhere – I suspect that a lesser person might have given up by now.

 

[sminicooper]

The basic universal income is not just something that may happen in the future. It has already started and is happening right now and not just in Finland.

This looks like the future. The days of menial and unskilled jobs in any meaningful numbers (apart from the Metropolitan Elite's need for bog cleaners and nannies) are receding which will result in parts of the population being virtually unemployable. Until now the solution has been known as "benefits" for these cases but in the future it will become a permanent non-means tested subsistence income from government. The alternative for this minor but substantial populace would be mass unease and uprisings as experienced in Europe in previous centuries – not a very welcome thought.

All the more reason why government investment in education (forget the worthless underwater-basket-weaving degrees) and up-skilling is so important. The last time they thought this was really important was when they introduced the 1870 education act because UK was falling behind in international competition – nothing really ever changes!

 

[Pat494]

There will be plenty of time to enjoy life, painting, poetry etc. live like the rich as long as you don't spend much.

 

[sminicooper]

There will be plenty of time to enjoy life, painting, poetry etc. live like the rich as long as you don't spend much.

If only more people could understand that; and being rich is having enough money to do what you want, which with the appropriate mindset doesn't mean you necessarily have to have barrel-loads of dosh!

 

[Signalcalc]

There is no real right wing party in the UK. The conservatives are taking up the middle ground. They are taking up traditional left wing policies such as electricity price caps and the latest stamp duty measures). And the left are moving even further left. As an inevitable consequence of human development.

There are only two right of centre parties in the UK that I can see could represent people that don’t want to vote for the main parties, that would be UKIP, who are long established now and For Britain, who are brand new and I have no idea about how popular they might become. Neither of which I would class as hard right either, the hard right in Britain simply doesn’t exist!

I don’t think either of these parties are currently big enough to form any kind of opposition, but if what’s happening in the EU catches on here, then who knows!

 

[sminicooper]

Chance to make a few bob with Brexit clones?

William Hill have opened a book until end 2017.

http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/e...To+Leave+EU+%28without+United+Kingdom%29.html

 

[Signalcalc]

This is just the beginning of how the EU will control dissent amongst its citizens:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/24/elected-euro-mp-tries-attend-secretive-eu-army-meeting/

 

[Atilla]

End of the EU and decline are more wishful thinking by the hope and glory boys.

As for the news it's just simply getting worse. Any positives for the Brexit camp???

Well yes one and I could not have believed hearing it. Mo Mowlam would be over the moon hearing this news. Ireland and Northern Ireland are united against the UK. The Bexit affect!!! Scotland is very pro EU too. As for Wales well imo the dorks don't realise what effect loss of EU funding will have on them once it stops and Parliament chooses not to match. Bad move or what? I hope they'll take better note of those posters telling them where the funding was coming from next time if there ever is one.

Then there is more talk of productivity or lack of it. Heard on the radio it takes German's 4 days labour to produce the same output as 5 days for Brits. How is Brexit going to help us??? Well we are going to reduce migration of low and skilled labour so wages can rise making the UK even less productive. What will happen to jobs? We'll sort that out later.

Government debt at 90% of GDP. So called ceiling level adhered to but with rising interest rates to stave off inflation due to collapsing pound in the face of a hard Brexit it will not take long for higher ceilings to kick in. To prevent that we either need cut in G expenditure or rise in T ax.

What are Brexiters plans? To turn UK into a super tax haven like the Cayman Islands or maybe takeover from the Swiss as the World's illegal bankers for money avoiding discovery. Reduce corporation tax so shell companies are setup in the UK. Where will those companies be setup? South or North? All you Northern hard skinned boys have a guess?

I don't expect you all to appreciate points raised as it is beyond most peoples analytical ability but some of you should begin to smell the coffee. Moggy pr1ck, Borris and Gove I'm sure will benefit with plenty of back handers and favours but most of the British public will be well and truly screwed by Brexit. You can count on it.

So in summary our proud and so called true Brits with their Brexit plot can put their names down to;

1. Rising debt and interest rates to service debt

2. Rising prices - inflation imported from collapsing pound

3. Falling wages and productivity due to lack of and now withdrawal of investment and jobs choosing EU over UK.

4. Having contributed to large part of EU regulations, directives and ECJ laws to denounce them as being very bad is hypocritical... BUT to then pass it into UK law with the great cut and past repeal bill is one HUGE MEGA lie Brexiters have no trouble swallowing!!! Sick stupid puke inducing dastardlies. Well who can believe we are governed by people who see this as quite logical and acceptable.

Absolutely and incredulity stretching, incompetent and most stupid way to conduct government and economic policy by bunch of self serving feckers who want to take back control and hand it over to Parliament. Who can believe all this fluffed up sh1t but Brexiters???



I had a dream. Effigies of Farage and May, much like Guy Fawkes was lighting up the British skies. It wasn't the 5th of Nov. It was the 19th of March.

I woke up feeling really refreshed and thought feck me - Wow!!! Am I really going to live that long :cheesy:

Hope you stay the course with me Split

 

[timsk]

Atilla, I'm starting to get the feeling you're not entirely convinced that Brexit is a good idea?

 

[mike.]

Same here Tim, I keep thinking he’s accepted the democratic vote and fallen into line, it every now and again he relapses and goes off on one, he’s a bit like leonardo in shutter island, I’m afraid he may never be cured.

 

[Atilla]

Same here Tim, I keep thinking he’s accepted the democratic vote and fallen into line, it every now and again he relapses and goes off on one, he’s a bit like leonardo in shutter island, I’m afraid he may never be cured.

I'm afraid you both miss the point. No surprises there. :cheesy:

Effigies of Farage and May will burn but much like Guy Fawkes they'll fail in their missions. At least one hopes they will fail.

 

[mike.]

We were at a fork in the road, one way we had no control over our destiny, The other we have full control....We will make a success of it , the problem lies in the timescale..hang in there.

 

[timsk]

. . . Effigies of Farage and May will burn but much like Guy Fawkes they'll fail in their missions. At least one hopes they will fail.

I'm starting to feel sorry for Mrs. May. If Brexit goes ahead then she's going to get lynched by the remoaners. Alternatively, if you get your way and thwart the democratic will of the people - then she'll get lynched by the Brexiteers. Either way, the woman is up poo creek without a paddle in a barbed wire boat. Still, there is a silver lining to this dark cloud (from her perspective). Regardless of what happens Brexit wise, if that video posted by Lightning McQueen a few pages back is anything to go by, Mrs. May will be able to stuff her posh trouser suits to the brim with shed loads of wonga!
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

We were at a fork in the road, one way we had no control over our destiny, The other we have full control....We will make a success of it , the problem lies in the timescale..hang in there.

I admire the stance of my fellow mates here. I really do. I share all your bulldog spirit against over whelming odds and opposition. You should believe me when I say this too. As I said before if Parliament gets to vote and Brexit does get ratified then you will not hear another pip out of me and I'll put my back into making UK achieve the best it can. Until then, I'm afraid I'll try to rectify a calamitous error of judgement by the British people on that sad and deceitful referendum that went askew.

Because the British bulldog spirit is such a very strong and passionate emotion, loaded with the history of centuries - often the Brexit debate is turned into one of struggle for independence, sovereignty and national pride.

I am dismayed at the glaring obvious FACT that this approach is totally wrong. Brexit is about economic trade in the production adn sale of goods and services with our neighbours.

Brexiters may like to frame it in punishments and beatings and sovereignty but this is a big folly. It is mis-direction by the few to obfuscate true direction.


Some people want lack of regulation and free markets yes. Pat can tell you where that leads. The thought of a tax haven with 10% > corporation tax or low pound so vested interest can sell is where this is going. On the other side all those invested in FTSE100 earning money abroad will see profits and dividends rise. But overwhelming benefits of Brexit will be for the very few and rich.

Overwhelming cost of Brexit will be for the very many and poor. So far Brexiters promises have largely fallen and continue to do so. All you out there need to judge and judge very carefully where these outcomes will lead.


So do not be misled by false direction and promises about issues like sovereignty and freedoms which really isn't at the heart of Brexit at all. £9bn will pale into very quick insignificance considering just how much of the 2.0 Tr UK may end up losing.

Just to put that all in perspective - if UK GDP was £1.0 then £9bn net surplus we pay the EU represents £0.0046 of a pound. That is less than half a pence (going by UK GDP 2016 data of £1.940 Tr)

So you have to ask your self is so much worth risking for sooo little? Remember this is simply business like buying a chocolate bar in a shop. It is not war.