Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

Listened to John McDonnel on R4 this morning, if we are in trouble now then we would need an even bigger spade to dig us out if Labour ever got into power with the shower they have in their leadership. He couldn’t answer simple economic questions despite repeated attempts, couldn’t put numbers on anything. A typical politician, full of rhetoric with no substance.

 

[Signalcalc]

Apparently they knew about this and hid it from us. Not sure if this is fake news though.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public

No surprise, the EU is just one big scandal based on communist ideology. We were taken into it illegally by Heath with a retrospective referendum 3 years after that.

 

[sminicooper]

Listened to John McDonnel on R4 this morning, if we are in trouble now then we would need an even bigger spade to dig us out if Labour ever got into power with the shower they have in their leadership. He couldn’t answer simple economic questions despite repeated attempts, couldn’t put numbers on anything. A typical politician, full of rhetoric with no substance.

Asked on both the Today programme and 5 Live how much extra would be spent on servicing government debt under Labour, McDonnell was eight times unable to give a figure. He said:
“This is a trite form of journalism, that’s why we have iPads and advisors… It’s minimal… I’m telling you, it pays for itself, it pays for itself.”
He did not explain how borrowing would “pay for itself”.

A bit like taking a loan for that "dead cert" trade that you know is gonna come right .........

 

[Splitlink]

No surprise, the EU is just one big scandal based on communist ideology. We were taken into it illegally by Heath with a retrospective referendum 3 years after that.

I have lived here for 52 years and, do you know something? They've had me fooled to the extent that I have lost all desire to return to the UK, the last time being 1987.

 

[barjon]

. :-0 wow, that’s shocking if it’s true, wonder if the tv news channels run with it or it’s quickly brushed under the carpet :whistling. Move on, nothing to see here. :whistling

Ah the Daily Express - the rag that described Theresa May’s disastrous conference speech as a triumph of her grit and determination.

 

[timsk]

Ah the Daily Express - the rag that described Theresa May’s disastrous conference speech as a triumph of her grit and determination.

. . . Okay Jon, how about the Torygraph - is that any more acceptable to you: 'Europe' alienates us all - as foretold 40 years ago


A Google search reveals there's no doubt about the existence of the document. The only real argument is about the spin each side puts on it.
Tim.

 

[Pat494]

I have lived here for 52 years and, do you know something? They've had me fooled to the extent that I have lost all desire to return to the UK, the last time being 1987.

Just looking in from afar but you may have big problems with the Catalan issues. Is it just the local politicians eager for power and wealth ?

 

[sminicooper]

I have lived here for 52 years and, do you know something? They've had me fooled to the extent that I have lost all desire to return to the UK, the last time being 1987.

Yes .......... but doesn't the sun always shine where you are?

 

[sminicooper]

No surprise, the EU is just one big scandal based on communist ideology. We were taken into it illegally by Heath with a retrospective referendum 3 years after that.

Heath was a political conman who thought he could run the country like he did when he was a Colonel in the Army – but the civilian troops mutinied.

 

[Signalcalc]

I have lived here for 52 years and, do you know something? They've had me fooled to the extent that I have lost all desire to return to the UK, the last time being 1987.

Indeed, if I had a pad in a warmer climate then I would find it difficult to return. I would probably find it far too expensive to return also as some of my South African friends have found out after living abroad for 50 years.

Predicting where the EU is headed is as difficult and complex as predicting the weather. I hope that it ends peacefully as some day I hope to be living in warmer climes. Unfortunately there are signs of trouble ahead, once the current crop of leadership are long gone, they will have left a legacy that future generations will find difficult to deal with and come to terms with and it’s nothing to do with Brexit and all to do with culture.

Britain has its own destiny to deal with, hopefully it won’t be tied with the approaching European disaster.

 

[tomorton]

Listened to John McDonnel on R4 this morning, if we are in trouble now then we would need an even bigger spade to dig us out if Labour ever got into power with the shower they have in their leadership. He couldn’t answer simple economic questions despite repeated attempts, couldn’t put numbers on anything. A typical politician, full of rhetoric with no substance.

Hardly surprising that a committed Marxist in this country - which is multi-party, democratic, monarchist and capitalist - avoids answering anything frankly.

 

[barjon]

. . . Okay Jon, how about the Torygraph - is that any more acceptable to you: 'Europe' alienates us all - as foretold 40 years ago


A Google search reveals there's no doubt about the existence of the document. The only real argument is about the spin each side puts on it.
Tim.

Probably written by the father of the civil servant who wrote the doomsday scenario paper if Brexit came to pass which you quite rightly pooh, pooh

This conspiracy theory of a plan to create a United States of Europe has always been a bit fuzzy. Who are the conspirators in the background and where is their power? Certainly not any unelected euro bureaucrat who no longer has the power to move things without the say so of the council of ministers and the European Parliament. Maybe the national leaders then? Although they would have had to take on the secret from their predecessors and be democratically accountable via their own parliaments. Maybe the members of the European Parliament then? Oh, course, they keep changing as the democratic elections demand, so no continuity of the conspiracy from there. Ah, it must be Doctor No or Goldfinger - 007 to the rescue then, (or Nigel Farage )

 

[Atilla]

Listened to John McDonnel on R4 this morning, if we are in trouble now then we would need an even bigger spade to dig us out if Labour ever got into power with the shower they have in their leadership. He couldn’t answer simple economic questions despite repeated attempts, couldn’t put numbers on anything. A typical politician, full of rhetoric with no substance.

Nobody answers those questions. Especially if one is not in Government. Be naive to do so. Even Tories don't have their numbers adn despite being in government get the numbers, forecasts and analytics all wrong. When they do use them, their words are logged, tracked and used in subsequent interviews.

There you are some kind of expert now on numbers game. Look how wrong the Tories got national debt and revenues wrong with their numbers year after year and they are in government.

You gonna have your face rubbed in it just be patient.

Tories will feck up BIG time and the brothers in arms will get Labour in who'll do slightly better job of further fecking up before and only if LibDems get in to recover the nation by going back into the EU.

It's crystal clear. If tories don't rectify their disastrous mistake life in the UK is going to get considerably worse until Labour get elected. Then it'll be the rest of those who have jobs will see take home pay decline further. Everybody is going to feel it that's for sure.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/institute-of-fiscal-studies-research-uk-wage-growth-2016-11

Hey ho here we go up the Khyber.

Bit of hardship no bother to you big boys. Stiff upper lip, grin and bear it for the country.

:whistling

 

[Signalcalc]

Nobody answers those questions. Especially if one is not in Government. Be naive to do so. Even Tories don't have their numbers adn despite being in government get the numbers, forecasts and analytics all wrong. When they do use them, their words are logged, tracked and used in subsequent interviews.

There you are some kind of expert now on numbers game. Look how wrong the Tories got national debt and revenues wrong with their numbers year after year and they are in government.

You gonna have your face rubbed in it just be patient.

Tories will feck up BIG time and the brothers in arms will get Labour in who'll do slightly better job of further fecking up before and only if LibDems get in to recover the nation by going back into the EU.

It's crystal clear. If tories don't rectify their disastrous mistake life in the UK is going to get considerably worse until Labour get elected. Then it'll be the rest of those who have jobs will see take home pay decline further. Everybody is going to feel it that's for sure.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/institute-of-fiscal-studies-research-uk-wage-growth-2016-11

Hey ho here we go up the Khyber.

Bit of hardship no bother to you big boys. Stiff upper lip, grin and bear it for the country.

:whistling

I wasn't defending the Tories ! I just happen to think that Labour would be worse for us all if they managed to get into power and John McDonnell just showed himself for the typical politician he is, no different to any of them, they all swim in the same pool.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, non of the major parties are vote-worthy, my vote won't be going to any of them.

 

[Jason101]

I wasn't defending the Tories ! I just happen to think that Labour would be worse for us all if they managed to get into power and John McDonnell just showed himself for the typical politician he is, no different to any of them, they all swim in the same pool.

Unfortunately, at this point in time, non of the major parties are vote-worthy, my vote won't be going to any of them.

There is only one major difference between the two parties.

- The Tory's believe that money should be saved to bolster the economy.
- Labour believe the economy is best bolstered via stimulus (structural investment)

That's about it, everything else is just little tweaks here and there.

 

[tomorton]

There is only one major difference between the two parties.

- The Tory's believe that money should be saved to bolster the economy.
- Labour believe the economy is best bolstered via stimulus (structural investment)

That's about it, everything else is just little tweaks here and there.

They both intend to take power by any political means. The Conservatives mean to hold it by political means plus the "application" of the capital available to them. Labour mean to hold it by political means plus the appropriation of capital not available to them, and probably the abolition of political opposition.

 

[Pat494]

The Tories are biased towards the City slickers and the rich whereas Labour are biased towards the Unions.
Both are out of date imho and are too biased to their own. But at least they are moderates not the hard left/right who are likely to persecute the others.

The advent of AI is really going to put the cat amongst the pigeons. The corporate bosses will love them as they don't want holidays, sick pay etc.
The Unions should worry as they are replacing human workers.

I can see a new form of Luddites who may ban inessential robots to preserve jobs. Factories full of people producing over priced TVs etc. After all it's people generally who are important not just greedy bosses. 20 % unemployment levels are on the horizon.

 

[Splitlink]

They both intend to take power by any political means. The Conservatives mean to hold it by political means plus the "application" of the capital available to them. Labour mean to hold it by political means plus the appropriation of capital not available to them, and probably the abolition of political opposition.

I wonder how long it will before these two large parties have a mutiny? In Spain, we had two party rule. ie. PP (conservative) and PSOE (Labour)

We now have

PP, Ciudadanos (Liberal-- My opinion), PSOE and Podemos (to the left of PSOE.

PP cannot govern without Ciudadanos. I don't think that PSOE could get a majority, either. That may change, of course, we must wait and see.

Wide choice for everyone. Mine would be Ciudadanos but I'm worried about their experience. I like Pedro Sanchez(PSOE)

That's the Central lot. Cataluña and the other Regions have more!

 

[Signalcalc]

The Tories are biased towards the City slickers and the rich whereas Labour are biased towards the Unions.
Both are out of date imho and are too biased to their own. But at least they are moderates not the hard left/right who are likely to persecute the others.

But who, exactly, are the hard left and hard right parties, who is classifying them as such, as far as I can see there aren't any who could even form any kind of opposition.

The advent of AI is really going to put the cat amongst the pigeons. The corporate bosses will love them as they don't want holidays, sick pay etc.
The Unions should worry as they are replacing human workers.

I can see a new form of Luddites who may ban inessential robots to preserve jobs. Factories full of people producing over priced TVs etc. After all it's people generally who are important not just greedy bosses. 20 % unemployment levels are on the horizon.

You can see signs of this with the lack of uptake of apprentices, most likely as a direct result of the apprenticeship levy. Employers will see this as just another tax (albeit quite low), the real cost is in hiring apprentices in the first place, SMEs can't afford it amongst all the other legislation and rising taxes and big businesses don't care and just look after the bottom line, shareholders and directors. As long as they get their cheap supply (minimum wage) workers they don't need to do much, AI is just part of that strategy.

The use of AI will have to be legislated against (taxed) at some point to prevent mass unemployment, the trouble is at this stage of the game that the technology is supported by government. Being short-termist's I doubt govt have even thought about a long term strategy for mass unemployment caused by AI, never mind the unintended consequences.

I can see that until all that is sorted out, they will be adopting the basic benefit for all whereby everyone receives a minimum income each month, who would pay for that is unclear, maybe the lucky few left working will be highly taxed or the corporates making all the money will be, but given the current state of tax avoidance amongst the rich its going to be a difficult task for future governments to deal with. Change never stops does it!

 

[tomorton]

But who, exactly, are the hard left and hard right parties, who is classifying them as such, as far as I can see there aren't any who could even form any kind of opposition.

No, there is no hard right party represented in Parliament.

On the left, Labour is led by Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, both Marxists. There isn't much space further left than that.