Brexit and the Consequences

Atilla said:
Ever tried oogling on google?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...avis-could-quit-frozen-brexit-strategy-civil/

Keep up old bean... I'd say don't let the grass grow under your feet but can't, what with all that fake turf you go on about... ;)
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I'm a bit surprised that a fine upstanding supporter of Uncle Vince Cable, like yourself, reads the Daily Torygraph - there are standards you know!

As for the fake grass - you don't have to mow it but you still have to pick up the $odding leaves.
 
sminicooper said:
I'm a bit surprised that a fine upstanding supporter of Uncle Vince Cable, like yourself, reads the Daily Torygraph - there are standards you know!

As for the fake grass - you don't have to mow it but you still have to pick up the $odding leaves.
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LOL - no rest for the wicked.

Repent!

Better-in :)



Here is a google test for you?

Who said “I really appreciate Mr. Davis’s English sense of humor,”?

:whistling
 
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counter_violent said:
I expect that would be Tusk. Irrelevant little pipsqueak from Poland.

Now then, what do we have here. Macron after 100 days has a popularity rating lower than any previous president. Whooda thunk it !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-faces-first-revolt-100-party-members-resign/
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France and Macron have no bearing on Brexit, so assume you making the point that EU is in decline again.

On the contrary EU is ascending and France once again looking to oust UK and benefit from some industries that are planning to relocate.

Even if the EU does brake up then staying in and swaying it's new evolution to UK interest and vision, to me would be the better, more logical outcome to pursue. UK gets to shape new direction and continue to be part of the free market.

Talking of logic by people who don't seem to have any is a little ironic coming from Brexiters. Brexit is about heart and emotions, beatings and punishments. Go figure.
 
Whatever one's own personal views one should imho respect the referendum result.
The people spoke and whether they are right or wrong the result should be respected as the new reality. We owe it to ourselves to make the best of this new reality because together we sink or swim.
 
Pat494 said:
Whatever one's own personal views one should imho respect the referendum result.
The people spoke and whether they are right or wrong the result should be respected as the new reality. We owe it to ourselves to make the best of this new reality because together we sink or swim.
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Beg to differ.

As it stands now, it was simply an advisory referendum. Government should have taken that advice and conducted a thorough white paper to work through implications with impact before debating in Parliament weather to invoke article 50 or not.

It is crucial we make the right decision and Parliament or another referendum is held once we know what the final deal looks like. Respect the view of the people instead of leading them by the nose. (y)
 
Atilla said:
Beg to differ.

As it stands now, it was simply an advisory referendum. Government should have taken that advice and conducted a thorough white paper to work through implications with impact before debating in Parliament weather to invoke article 50 or not.

It is crucial we make the right decision and Parliament or another referendum is held once we know what the final deal looks like. Respect the view of the people instead of leading them by the nose. (y)
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There is no "Right" decision – only what people think is right and we're split fairly evenly on that. So you come back to democracy and that's what the vote was. Forget about the electorate being well-informed – Baldrick has been with us since time immemorial but now he is enfranchised.

Does anybody think we would be having this conversation about a "second" referendum if the Remainers had won?
 
sminicooper said:
There is no "Right" decision – only what people think is right and we're split fairly evenly on that. So you come back to democracy and that's what the vote was. Forget about the electorate being well-informed – Baldrick has been with us since time immemorial but now he is enfranchised.

Does anybody think we would be having this conversation about a "second" referendum if the Remainers had won?
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Yes and that's precisely what happened in 1975 after we joined in 1973 because the doubters wanted one.

I'm happy with democracy but you losing your self in regurgitating peoples will and the referendum as if it is absolute law above all else. Makes a mockery of Parliament and the great repeal bill cut and pasting EU law into ours whilst making the point we do not wish to be ruled by the EU.

Farcical comedy from my pov.

There are right and wrong decisions being made all the time. There are many roads from A to B but there will always be one which is optimal subject to various constraints.

Putting a complicated decision out to uneducated mass public was not a good decision. Much like going to a witch doctor to determine your ailment and prescription for your cure. Will of the people for sure otherwise witch doctors wouldn't exist?
 
There are bound to be ups and downs whichever way we go. Winners and losers.

The die is cast and we will have to like it or lump it.
Anyone is free to leave.

The crappy EU leadership has hardly started putting on the screws with Berlin firmly in the saddle.
 
Atilla said:
Yes and that's precisely what happened in 1975 after we joined in 1973 because the doubters wanted one.

I'm happy with democracy but you losing your self in regurgitating peoples will and the referendum as if it is absolute law above all else. Makes a mockery of Parliament and the great repeal bill cut and pasting EU law into ours whilst making the point we do not wish to be ruled by the EU.

Farcical comedy from my pov.

There are right and wrong decisions being made all the time. There are many roads from A to B but there will always be one which is optimal subject to various constraints.

Putting a complicated decision out to uneducated mass public was not a good decision. Much like going to a witch doctor to determine your ailment and prescription for your cure. Will of the people for sure otherwise witch doctors wouldn't exist?
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Isn't that what dictators say?
 
We should simplify this mess. Tell those mudflaps they can stick any deal they have up junkers @55
f3c409dc94f7bf9e74f3c82923654b48.jpg
 
sminicooper said:
There is no "Right" decision – only what people think is right and we're split fairly evenly on that. So you come back to democracy and that's what the vote was. Forget about the electorate being well-informed – Baldrick has been with us since time immemorial but now he is enfranchised.

Does anybody think we would be having this conversation about a "second" referendum if the Remainers had won?
Click to expand...

Yes, it’s all a pretty pickle isn’t it. In our representational democracy it’s parliament that decides, not the people. If parliament decides it’s in the best interests of the country to remain then it can force the government to change horses. I doubt, though, that the MPs would be prepared to go against the expressed will of the people even though it was only a narrow majority and even if the final “deal” was massively detrimental to our interests. There’s an outside chance they might cop out and pass the buck to the people with a second referendum but I doubt it. It’s far more likely that they will bury their heads and just plough ahead whatever the consequences might be.

Oh yes, and “no” I don’t think there would be any conversation abound a second referendum if the remainers had won. After all, we would have known exactly where we stand in maintaining the status quote so far as the benefits and disadvantages were concerned. All things that are up in the air and unknown at the moment.
 
sminicooper said:
Isn't that what dictators say?
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Dictators don't give an open vote to Parliament or a put it to a Referendum either.

Which side of the line are you on?

What ever you think or say British democracy has become a farce with the Brexit vote.
 
counter_violent said:
We can be absolutely certain that we will be leaving the EU whatever the deal, or lack of, given the Govt response to all remoaner style petitions.

Here's just one example and there are many to choose from. But the Govt message is always the same. We are leaving, end of discussion.:)

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200004?reveal_response=yes#response-threshold
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Government by a shoe string. Motions of no confidence in the air.

Absolutely certain we have a strong and stable government? You kidding right? :LOL:

Weakness is their strength. You know it. All vying for their time to stick the knife in but not now. Who want's to take that pile of crap on that Brexiters have delivered to the nation. Cameron resigned rightly so. It'll be like writing your name to the losers cup. Politicians queuing up for that title of immortality in history books. Losing the EU will be like Boston Tea Party all over again. Losing North America over sheer arrogance and bloody mindedness.

All up to captain sensible Hammond to raise party spirits and then come 2018 as situ becomes more dire prior to March 19 you'll see your certainty staring back at you.
 
Atilla said:
Government by a shoe string. Motions of no confidence in the air.

Absolutely certain we have a strong and stable government? You kidding right? :LOL:

Weakness is their strength. You know it. All vying for their time to stick the knife in but not now. Who want's to take that pile of crap on that Brexiters have delivered to the nation. Cameron resigned rightly so. It'll be like writing your name to the losers cup. Politicians queuing up for that title of immortality in history books. Losing the EU will be like Boston Tea Party all over again. Losing North America over sheer arrogance and bloody mindedness.

All up to captain sensible Hammond to raise party spirits and then come 2018 as situ becomes more dire prior to March 19 you'll see your certainty staring back at you.
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Well, it's clear that you didn't read the Govt response, so i've highlighted the important bits in red. :LOL:

Government responded
On 23 June 2016 the British people voted to leave the European Union. The UK Government is clear that it is now its duty to implement the will of the people and so there will be no second referendum.

The decision to hold the referendum was supported by a clear majority in both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. On 23 June 2016 the British people voted to leave the European Union. The referendum was the largest democratic mandate in UK political history. In the 2017 General Election more than 85% of people voted for parties committed to respecting that result.

There must be no attempts to remain inside the European Union, no attempts to rejoin it through the back door, and no second referendum. The country voted to leave the European Union, and it is the duty of the Government to make sure we do just that. Rather than second guess the British people’s decision to leave the European Union, the challenge now is to make a success of it - not just for those who voted leave but for every citizen of the United Kingdom, bringing together everyone in a balanced approach which respects the decision to leave the political structure of the EU but builds a strong relationship between Britain and the EU as neighbours, allies and partners.

Parliament passed an Act of Parliament with a clear majority giving the Prime Minister the power to trigger Article 50, which she did on 29 March in a letter to the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk. As a matter of firm policy, our notification will not be withdrawn - for the simple reason that people voted to leave, and the Government is determined to see through that instruction.

Both Houses of Parliament will have the opportunity to vote on the final agreement reached with the EU before it is concluded. This will be a meaningful vote which will give MPs the choice to either accept the final agreement or leave the EU with no agreement.

The people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union, but we are not leaving Europe. We want a deep and special partnership with the EU. We aim to get the right deal abroad and the right deal for people here at home. We will deliver a country that is stronger, fairer, more united and more outward-looking than ever before.

Department for Exiting the European Union
 
Atilla said:
Dictators don't give an open vote to Parliament or a put it to a Referendum either.

But that's the whole point isn't it? You're seeing democracy in action – not a pretty sight I must admit, but it's the least worst option (as one of the 20th Century's greatest politicians said).


Which side of the line are you on?

There are good arguments on both sides of leave/remain – I find it difficult to understand how you can be completely 100% one way or the other. But in the end you have to take a balanced view and that will depend on what particular aspect of the economics or politics is most important to you. Just as in trading there are buyers and sellers in every deal – are they both right? Or wrong?


What ever you think or say British democracy has become a farce with the Brexit vote.

It has become a long, drawn out and seemingly never-ending argument over what has/is/will take place with everybody being absolutely sure that their opinion is correct. And that's the way it has to be in a proper democracy. But farce?
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The thing that is missing in all of this is leadership. There's none in the UK and there's none in Europe while Germany doesn't have a government. What the EU and the Germans do is up to them; but we have the opportunity now to do what we want: the only problem is that we have a rudderless government and an even more appalling alternative. It's not the EU that is the problem, we could manage perfectly well with or without them. As with any organisation it's the quality of management that counts.

One lives in hope that "cometh the hour cometh the man" but it seems to me the hour is rapidly approaching and there's no sign of anybody.
 
I subscribe to swilliamism and found his latest vid thought provoking and interesting. thought of you guys and this thread and had to share.

BREXIT: The New Waterloo Legend

 
Will Merkel's problems help UK?

http://commentcentral.co.uk/german-instability-offers-uk-upper-hand/


BBC: "German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said she would prefer new elections to leading a minority government, after a breakdown in coalition talks plunged the country into political crisis." (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42057108)

FT: A wobbly Merkel means a weaker Europe
Problems on the continent remain, and the chancellor’s travails will exacerbate them (https://www.ft.com/content/dc274390-cdee-11e7-9dbb-291a884dd8c6)
 
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