Brexit and the Consequences

[counter_violent]

Why could we not become world leaders in car production again Pat ? Why do we find it easier to import as opposed to produce? It used to be a great engineering country for aircraft, tanks etc. Yet we stand by while all the jobs and profits go to other countries, Have we realised you can make the same profits sat behind a monitor in a city bank. ?

The start point for any such revolution will come from engineering innovation technology. In other words, vehicle production will follow the power revolution.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...d-leader-battery-technology-electric-vehicles

What we really need is a govt that shifts all investment away from Londonistan and in to areas where people actually get things done.

 

[Pat494]

If you don't understand why and how you gave it all away, you have no chance of getting it back.

The US rust belt, Detroit in particular also went through a bad patch.
And as for the solution ? Not easy.

 

[Splitlink]

BMC, comprising of Morris, Austin, Wolesley, Riley, Standard, MG, Rover and, probably a few others that I can't remember. Ah, yes! mustn't forget Hillman, Humber and Triumph! All ruined by union closed shop practices. A shambles, sold off for peanuts by Maggie in an attempt to get the country profitable, again.

Prestige? Plenty of that. Wars anywhere you wanted one. In fact, anything that did not pay, count the UK in.

 

[counter_violent]

BMC, comprising of Morris, Austin, Wolesley, Riley, Standard, MG, Rover and, probably a few others that I can't remember. Ah, yes! mustn't forget Hillman, Humber and Triumph! All ruined by union closed shop practices. A shambles, sold off for peanuts by Maggie in an attempt to get the country profitable, again.

Prestige? Plenty of that. Wars anywhere you wanted one. In fact, anything that did not pay, count the UK in.

Look what happens when the west doesn't intervene. Europe swamped with migrants.

Well, the EU only has itself to blame. What goes around comes around.

 

[Pat494]

BMC, comprising of Morris, Austin, Wolesley, Riley, Standard, MG, Rover and, probably a few others that I can't remember. Ah, yes! mustn't forget Hillman, Humber and Triumph! All ruined by union closed shop practices. A shambles, sold off for peanuts by Maggie in an attempt to get the country profitable, again.

Prestige? Plenty of that. Wars anywhere you wanted one. In fact, anything that did not pay, count the UK in.

Of course with 1970s Corbyn at the helm it is very likely they will just continue with the industrial strife.
We need a statesman at the top not the present penny anti lot.

 

[mike.]

Anyway, the big boys and girls in Europe haven’t flexed their muscles yet, people don’t honestly think it will be left to junker and barnier to decide the brexit outcome, once the bosses of Mercedes,Audi and the other big European companies stamp their heels negotiations will take a swift u turn..

 

[Pat494]

The politicians love to have the immigrants in to swell the basic workforce ( keeping wages low ) and employing the building industries.

 

[Atilla]

BMC, comprising of Morris, Austin, Wolesley, Riley, Standard, MG, Rover and, probably a few others that I can't remember. Ah, yes! mustn't forget Hillman, Humber and Triumph! All ruined by union closed shop practices. A shambles, sold off for peanuts by Maggie in an attempt to get the country profitable, again.

Prestige? Plenty of that. Wars anywhere you wanted one. In fact, anything that did not pay, count the UK in.

With due respect to you dear Splitlink, it was not the unions that destroyed the British Empire's production capability but the short sighted banks interested in quick buck and not national interest. The stuck up aristocracy who beat it's labour force to malnutrition instead of investing in a decent education, living wage and training. Not forgetting investing in new production techniques and R&D. The trade unions only came into the foray towards the end as fecked up, stuck up and equally stupid and ill trained management started looking at the Trade Unions as the root cause of their problems trying to compete on price by cutting wages.

So many people have been sold by the establishment that it was the Trade Unions instead of management, lack of R&D and short sighted banking system.

Then along came that silly tart Mrs T who instead of fixing things identifying and rectifying issues just got rid of it all as equally fecked up yanks advised her to do so.

The same fecked up stupid crowd who claim to be patriotic and have the solution to get rid of skilled migrant cheap labour force and somehow rising wages without corresponding competing manufacturing industry that no longer exists will solve their problems - hence Brexit. Stupid bastidos have no fecking limits on just how nationalistic they can be. Ill educated dumb nit twits born with silver spoons up their ar5es.


Just to point out, Japanese who manage a number of plants think we have an excellent labour force and who's ever heard of strikes.

I can put my pension on the fact that if foreign management and practices and investment is removed from these plants and fecked up Etonite old boy network management put in charge the whole production process will go the same as BL.

British managment is daft, stupid, ill trained, lacks vision and foresight to invest in producing world beating products. The banking platform for supporting investment doesn't exist either as they are far too short sighted.


Corbyn may be the man to change all that. But certainly not the Tories.

 

[counter_violent]

With due respect to you dear Splitlink, it was not the unions that destroyed the British Empire's production capability but the short sighted banks interested in quick buck and not national interest. The stuck up aristocracy who beat it's labour force to malnutrition instead of investing in a decent education, living wage and training. Not forgetting investing in new production techniques and R&D. The trade unions only came into the foray towards the end as fecked up, stuck up and equally stupid and ill trained management started looking at the Trade Unions as the root cause of their problems trying to compete on price by cutting wages.

So many people have been sold by the establishment that it was the Trade Unions instead of management, lack of R&D and short sighted banking system.

Then along came that silly tart Mrs T who instead of fixing things identifying and rectifying issues just got rid of it all as equally fecked up yanks advised her to do so.

The same fecked up stupid crowd who claim to be patriotic and have the solution to get rid of skilled migrant cheap labour force and somehow rising wages without corresponding competing manufacturing industry that no longer exists will solve their problems - hence Brexit. Stupid bastidos have no fecking limits on just how nationalistic they can be. Ill educated dumb nit twits born with silver spoons up their ar5es.


Just to point out, Japanese who manage a number of plants think we have an excellent labour force and who's ever heard of strikes.

I can put my pension on the fact that if foreign management and practices and investment is removed from these plants and fecked up Etonite old boy network management put in charge the whole production process will go the same as BL.

British managment is daft, stupid, ill trained, lacks vision and foresight to invest in producing world beating products. The banking platform for supporting investment doesn't exist either as they are far too short sighted.


Corbyn may be the man to change all that. But certainly not the Tories.

Meanwhile back in the real world, the govt has revived the board of trade.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41586496

 

[sminicooper]

Our democracy is based on a representational system. We vote in representatives and rely on them to make decisions that are “best for the rest of us”. I do expect our leaders to know more about things than I do so I’m happy with that.

At the moment we have the odd situation where a comfortable majority of our representatives and leaders were remainers but must stay silent because just over half the people who voted chose to leave (and much less than half of the adult population).

I don’t believe the referendum was called because Cameron was “forced into an act of democracy”. He was, rather, trying to gag his euro-sceptic difficult squad and keep them quiet. Really miscalculated the mood of people

While I'd agree that our democracy is based on a representational system it's also important to remember that our constitution, being unwritten, does evolve as time passes. One of the more recent changes has been the acceptance of referendums – there have in fact been 11 since 1973 despite most publicity being about the 2 concerning the EU. Because Parliament is sovereign, referendums are only advisory but nevertheless demonstrate the will of the people. They are a useful tool when our elected representatives aren't sure/haven't got a clue/find themselves in a political panic, with regard to "difficult" situations.

I would therefore argue that even though the majority of our elected representatives voted to remain, it was properly demonstrated by the referendum that a majority of the electorate wanted to leave and therefore, the correct constitutional position is that Parliament should accept that and act accordingly. This is in fact what is (supposedly) happening with a Prime Minister & Cabinet of whom the majority voted to remain but nevertheless have the integrity to honour the will of the people.

As for Cameron I largely agree your point though I would still say that he was "forced into an act of democracy" but not through his good judgement – he just panicked (rather unlike him IMHO since he is another one who is very good at picking up "flavour of the month politics") and ended up with a result he didn't expect. Through his incompetent dealings with the EU, who themselves made a complete balls-up of it by not giving him just enough to satisfy the UK electorate, he managed to effect a change in our history initially catalysed by Farage.

One of the interesting things about Brexit is that it will have effectively made change to the British constitution and is (so far) an excellent demonstration of peaceful political change.

 

[Atilla]

Let's KISS!

Cameron called a referendum to save his position as UKIP were stealing votes from Conservatives and coupled with loss of votes in Scotland was destined to lose any future elections to Labour.

 

[Pat494]

I have to confess that the last time I voted in a General Election was 1983.
I can think of lots of good reasons why I did not want to vote for any of the main parties since. Lacklustre nobodies with biased and useless policies imho.

 

[tomorton]

I have to confess that the last time I voted in a General Election was 1983.
I can think of lots of good reasons why I did not want to vote for any of the main parties since. Lacklustre nobodies with biased and useless policies imho.

Add to the fact that if you live in a "safe seat" constituency for one of the major parties, any vote for another candidate is wasted.

 

[Pat494]

Only a matter of time before a mechanoid robot is fed the info from the people and does what it's told.

:whistling

 

[Pat494]

If the leaders of the EU weren't such stupid idiots the whole Brexit issue could be easily solved with all parties happy.
But no they have squeeze the last drop out of the other party rather than being FAIR and HONEST. Give the other guy a bit of self respect too.

 

[sminicooper]

It's looking like no deal is better than a bad deal

Will "no deal is better than a bad deal" go down in history in the same way as Macmillan's 1957 "you've never had it so good" & Blair's 1997 "things can only get better" ?

Sky Data poll
Which comes closer to your views regarding Brexit:
Any deal is better than no deal 26%
No deal is better than a bad deal 74%

— Sky Data https://twitter.com/SkyData/status/918381450336047104?ref_src=twsrc^tfw(@SkyData) 12 October 2017

 

[Splitlink]

With due respect to you dear Splitlink, it was not the unions that destroyed the British Empire's production capability but the short sighted banks interested in quick buck and not national interest. The stuck up aristocracy who beat it's labour force to malnutrition instead of investing in a decent education, living wage and training. Not forgetting investing in new production techniques and R&D. The trade unions only came into the foray towards the end as fecked up, stuck up and equally stupid and ill trained management started looking at the Trade Unions as the root cause of their problems trying to compete on price by cutting wages.

So many people have been sold by the establishment that it was the Trade Unions instead of management, lack of R&D and short sighted banking system.

Then along came that silly tart Mrs T who instead of fixing things identifying and rectifying issues just got rid of it all as equally fecked up yanks advised her to do so.

The same fecked up stupid crowd who claim to be patriotic and have the solution to get rid of skilled migrant cheap labour force and somehow rising wages without corresponding competing manufacturing industry that no longer exists will solve their problems - hence Brexit. Stupid bastidos have no fecking limits on just how nationalistic they can be. Ill educated dumb nit twits born with silver spoons up their ar5es.


Just to point out, Japanese who manage a number of plants think we have an excellent labour force and who's ever heard of strikes.

I can put my pension on the fact that if foreign management and practices and investment is removed from these plants and fecked up Etonite old boy network management put in charge the whole production process will go the same as BL.

British managment is daft, stupid, ill trained, lacks vision and foresight to invest in producing world beating products. The banking platform for supporting investment doesn't exist either as they are far too short sighted.


Corbyn may be the man to change all that. But certainly not the Tories.

I could tell you a lot about unions but, honestly, I have a lot to do today! But, I'll start as a schoolboy, waiting 40 minutes for a bus, and then seven come along. The first three are full, the fourth stops --sometimes--. They were called convoys.

I remember one bus going around Marble Arch three times so that he could be at the back of the convoy--the driver was fed up with being at the front.

From school, so it went on all through my working in the UK life. Ships anchored in the river for days, while the dockers sorted it out.

ETc, etc ,etc.

Life circled around who was on strike, whether you were waiting, at home, for coal, post or whatever.

"They're on strike." was the most common phrase spoken in those days-

 

[counter_violent]

I could tell you a lot about unions but, honestly, I have a lot to do today! But, I'll start as a schoolboy, waiting 40 minutes for a bus, and then seven come along. The first three are full, the fourth stops --sometimes--. They were called convoys.

I remember one bus going around Marble Arch three times so that he could be at the back of the convoy--the driver was fed up with being at the front.

From school, so it went on all through my working in the UK life. Ships anchored in the river for days, while the dockers sorted it out.

ETc, etc ,etc.

Life circled around who was on strike, whether you were waiting, at home, for coal, post or whatever.

"They're on strike." was the most common phrase spoken in those days-

You must have been delighted then Split when Maggie curtailed union power.

 

[Pat494]

What amazed me about the so called poverty stricken Union bosses was to find out that some were living in the lap of luxury in rent free mansions etc.
Let's hope those days are over now.

 

[sminicooper]

What amazed me about the so called poverty stricken Union bosses was to find out that some were living in the lap of luxury in rent free mansions etc.
Let's hope those days are over now.

It was during this era that the boss of one of the 2 rail unions (ASLEF or NUR – can't remember which) would travel up to Waterloo station first-class and then be met by his chauffeur-driven car to take him to the union HQ for the day's work. They weren't called "Union Barons" for nothing!