Brexit and the Consequences

[Splitlink]

So not only did remoaners lose the initial debate, project fear. They have also lost the subsequent economic argument.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/85...raffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

For fools rush in where angels fear to tread

 

[counter_violent]

For fools rush in where angels fear to tread

Who needs the news service when everything is known in advance !

 

[mike.]

It's simple maths.

They currently export more to us.
We currently export more outside the EU.

.

Will be a fantastic way to rebuild the British car industry, Slap some tariffs on all those cheap eu cars flooding the market...Bring back Austin Rover.

 

[Pat494]

Will be a fantastic way to rebuild the British car industry, Slap some tariffs on all those cheap eu cars flooding the market...Bring back Austin Rover.

As far as I recall Blair gave 4 people £10m to save Rover and they pocketed it !
The British car industry was tops in the 1950s until a poor management and the Unions ruined it. Apparently a Soviet agent was carrying around suitcases full of paper money from the embassy and bribing the workers to go on strikes.

Could it be restarted ? I wonder. Not with the old them and us attitude.

 

[counter_violent]

As far as I recall Blair gave 4 people £10m to save Rover and they pocketed it !
The British car industry was tops in the 1950s until a poor management and the Unions ruined it. Apparently a Soviet agent was carrying around suitcases full of paper money from the embassy and bribing the workers to go on strikes.

Could it be restarted ? I wonder. Not with the old them and us attitude.

Car production is a very good case in point. We do punch above our weight in the high end luxury car market. No reason whatsoever that we could not expand car production. This is not 1970 !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[sminicooper]

So: we have a "Brexit" Cabinet where 18 of the 25 voted Remain; a 1st Minister (Damian Green – May's right-hand man) who voted remain and says that he would do so again today; and a PM who voted remain but said last June "“You can only deliver Brexit if you believe in Brexit…” but this evening on an LBC radio phone in, refuses to say that she would vote Brexit today given the opportunity.

Is it any wonder that the negotiations don't appear to be going too well?

 

[Pat494]

Some would argue that anyone who didn't fully understand what Brexit meant should not have voted.
As it is patently obvious no one knows what will happen in a Brexit, no one should have voted or to put it another way Cameron should never have called for a referendum as it was well beyond Joe Average to make an informed decision.

 

[tomorton]

Some would argue that anyone who didn't fully understand what Brexit meant should not have voted.
As it is patently obvious no one knows what will happen in a Brexit, no one should have voted or to put it another way Cameron should never have called for a referendum as it was well beyond Joe Average to make an informed decision.

This is only right up to a point Pat. I don't know that more raw information would have helped. Some honesty might have been appropriate.

I think the leave voters believed exit would indeed mean short-term economic disruption but longer-term political independence, economic growth and control over future immigration from an expanding EU. The leavers that economic stability was more important and they were seemingly relaxed about political union with the US of E as well as EU immigration.

Professional economists were mostly in the remain camp but that's such an inexact science. Immigration is a double-edged sword and some regard migration from poorer areas to richer areas as a human right.

But no mainstream politicians wanted to discuss political union. And maybe this would have swung it into an over-whelming result one way or the other if they had. But committing on this question would have been a high risk strategy - for the politicians.

 

[sminicooper]

Some would argue that anyone who didn't fully understand what Brexit meant should not have voted.
As it is patently obvious no one knows what will happen in a Brexit, no one should have voted or to put it another way Cameron should never have called for a referendum as it was well beyond Joe Average to make an informed decision.

You could apply that argument to most elections and indeed, in some cases it might well be true. But it's a very dangerous and democracy-weakening stance to take. I might be thick but I'm not so thick that I don't know when somebody (a politician for instance?) is trying to work one over me. As for Dave calling the referendum – that was just him being forced into an act of democracy and only painted "not as" by those who didn't like the outcome.

The Metropolitan Elite – typified by the likes of Clegg & Blair – have always known what is best for the rest of us: that should be resisted at all costs.

 

[Pat494]

The Metropolitan Elite – typified by the likes of Clegg & Blair – have always known what is best for the rest of us: that should be resisted at all costs.

I know the feeling about being bossed unnecessarily but sometimes even those clots are right. Not often I admit.

 

[barjon]

You could apply that argument to most elections and indeed, in some cases it might well be true. But it's a very dangerous and democracy-weakening stance to take. I might be thick but I'm not so thick that I don't know when somebody (a politician for instance?) is trying to work one over me. As for Dave calling the referendum – that was just him being forced into an act of democracy and only painted "not as" by those who didn't like the outcome.

The Metropolitan Elite – typified by the likes of Clegg & Blair – have always known what is best for the rest of us: that should be resisted at all costs.

Our democracy is based on a representational system. We vote in representatives and rely on them to make decisions that are “best for the rest of us”. I do expect our leaders to know more about things than I do so I’m happy with that.

At the moment we have the odd situation where a comfortable majority of our representatives and leaders were remainers but must stay silent because just over half the people who voted chose to leave (and much less than half of the adult population).

I don’t believe the referendum was called because Cameron was “forced into an act of democracy”. He was, rather, trying to gag his euro-sceptic difficult squad and keep them quiet. Really miscalculated the mood of people

 

[Pat494]

Just returning to the old British car industry a moment.
The cars produced by British Leyland etc. were of inferior design and quality and overpriced.
Their car designers if there were any could have overcome this problem even if they were short on good ideas by buying the two top selling models at the time and copying their best features while making improvements. They deserved their fate imho and now we assemble foreign cars for the mass markets.

 

[counter_violent]

This is just the illegals. Continual failure by successive govt's to do anything.
Just One reason why we voted leave, to stop the continual slide into the gutter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4967690/Million-illegal-immigrants-not-removed-UK.html

 

[Splitlink]

This is not 1970 !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_United_Kingdom

Is that why you wanted to join, then, and leave now? I think that you have to put the blame, squarely, where it is deserved and, although there are faults in Brussels, the real fault of the loss of British industry was on British government and the power of the unions, with their closed shop policies.

It is the same with Madrid over Cataluña. This problem has been brewing for decades and Madrid has always said "The Catalans will get over it".

The problems in Spain and UK are not over, by a long way.

 

[counter_violent]

Our democracy is based on a representational system. We vote in representatives and rely on them to make decisions that are “best for the rest of us”. I do expect our leaders to know more about things than I do so I’m happy with that.

Some representation eh when candidates are selected because they are either ineffectual, or fit the party stereotype, or picked from an all female shortlist. As for knowing more than we do! This is the information age. The problem the politicians all have is that information is readily available and people know how and where to find it.

At the moment we have the odd situation where a comfortable majority of our representatives and leaders were remainers but must stay silent because just over half the people who voted chose to leave (and much less than half of the adult population).

All of them are a complete self interested rabble. If Trump is right about only One thing, it's that the swamp needs draining.

I don’t believe the referendum was called because Cameron was “forced into an act of democracy”. He was, rather, trying to gag his euro-sceptic difficult squad and keep them quiet. Really miscalculated the mood of people

Farage and UKIP were the Ones who forced the issue by exposing the EU from within. It's no accident that they were voted in either. So it wasn't pressure from within the Tory party that bounced Cameron in to a referendum. It was people pressure and UKIP representation. Cameron's blunder was in thinking that a remain vote was in the bag! The sheer panic that swept through the remain camp before the vote was a delight to behold.

http://britainseurope.ideasoneurope.eu/2014/07/11/britaininep/

 

[counter_violent]

Is that why you wanted to join, then, and leave now? I think that you have to put the blame, squarely, where it is deserved and, although there are faults in Brussels, the real fault of the loss of British industry was on British government and the power of the unions, with their closed shop policies.

It is the same with Madrid over Cataluña. This problem has been brewing for decades and Madrid has always said "The Catalans will get over it".

The problems in Spain and UK are not over, by a long way.

The UK was bounced in. It's very well documented that the British people were lied to because it suited the establishment. A free trade zone is what we were sold. We were not sold the idea of political integration, which we would never have signed up to. The rest of the nonsense came after we joined, like free movement and unchecked illegals swamping the un-policed borderless continent.

Spain and UK problems will be dwarfed when the whole project falls apart, and it surely will because events are already out of control and everyone can see it.

 

[Pat494]

Is that why you wanted to join, then, and leave now? I think that you have to put the blame, squarely, where it is deserved and, although there are faults in Brussels, the real fault of the loss of British industry was on British government and the power of the unions, with their closed shop policies.

It is the same with Madrid over Cataluña. This problem has been brewing for decades and Madrid has always said "The Catalans will get over it".

The problems in Spain and UK are not over, by a long way.

We seem to have something in common. Perhaps we could swop Scotland for Cataluna ?


Just kidding Nicola.

 

[Splitlink]

We seem to have something in common. Perhaps we could swop Scotland for Cataluna ?

Language! I sailed with a crowd of Glaswegians, once. A great bunch but, boy, did we have problems understanding one another!! I, soon, got to grips with it, though, but my folks had a job when I went on leave.

 

[mike.]

Just returning to the old British car industry a moment.
The cars produced by British Leyland etc. were of inferior design and quality and overpriced.
Their car designers if there were any could have overcome this problem even if they were short on good ideas by buying the two top selling models at the time and copying their best features while making improvements. They deserved their fate imho and now we assemble foreign cars for the mass markets.

Why could we not become world leaders in car production again Pat ? Why do we find it easier to import as opposed to produce? It used to be a great engineering country for aircraft, tanks etc. Yet we stand by while all the jobs and profits go to other countries, Have we realised you can make the same profits sat behind a monitor in a city bank. ?

 

[dbphoenix]

Why could we not become world leaders in car production again Pat ? Why do we find it easier to import as opposed to produce? It used to be a great engineering country for aircraft, tanks etc. Yet we stand by while all the jobs and profits go to other countries, Have we realised you can make the same profits sat behind a monitor in a city bank. ?

If you don't understand why and how you gave it all away, you have no chance of getting it back.