Brexit and the Consequences

Splitlink, the decline of the British Empire started shortly after 1850s Crystal Palace exhibition hosted by Prince Albert. It is generally agreed that was the height of the Empire by most.

Blaming trade Unions and bus strikes and 7 busses turning up and one bus driver driving round Marble Arch 3 times, so it is not the first is not a reason and I assume this was after the 1950s. A 100 years after the perpetual decline of ship building, textiles and railways as if the blame lies with unions is nonsense.

Moreover, you overlook the simple fact that bus drivers are managed by management organising routes, shifts and scheduling rotas.

Feck all that. Too much to think about, analyse and process. So there we have all our Queens and Politicians and industrial leaders having failed the last 100 years to make UK manufacturing great again and yet the lowest and weakest in our society the workers at the bottom end of the ladder somehow are / were to blame and Thatcher sorted them out and made the UK great again.

Rabbiting on repeating the same old tripe as if it is a matter of fact I guess makes it so. Who needs fake news when there are uneducated and ill informed easilly led sheep like you lot about.

Then a host of other bloggers join in the union bashing. Like a wild mob bunch of kick'm when they are down, unions are acceptable targets of blame along with migrants labour force, everybody else says so, so it must be true.


Then we have CV who thinks Africa is rich in the production of food produce and we UK can get cheaper food imports from them. What was that other piece of analysis??? That's right, African's will farm, export their food and become well off and employed and not have to leave their countries flooding into EU and UK as migrants. That's a wonderful idea. Wonder why no one has thought of doing that before. It's obvious CV you are well read on daily trash and know not what you talk about. Laugh out loud indeed :LOL:


There is no substitution for doing ones own research that's for sure. (y)
 
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Atilla said:
Splitlink, the decline of the British Empire started shortly after 1850s Crystal Palace exhibition hosted by Prince Albert. It is generally agreed that was the height of the Empire by most.

Blaming Trade Unions and bus strikes and 7 busses turning up and one bus driver driving round Marble Arch 3 times, so it is not the first. I assume this was after the 1950s. A 100 years after the perpetual decline of ship building, textiles and rsilways. As if that justifies the blame lies with the Unions.

Moreover, you overlook the simple fact that bus drivers are managed by management organising routes, shifts and scheduling rotas.

Feck all that. Too much to think about, analyse and process. So there we have all our Queens and Politicians and industrial leaders having failed the last 100 years to make UK manufacturing great again and yet the lowest and weakest in our society the workers at the bottom end of the ladder somehow are / were to blame and Thatcher sorted them out and made the UK great again.

Rabbiting on repeating the same old tripe as if it is a matter of fact I guess makes it so. Who needs fake news when there are uneducated and ill informed easilly led sheep like you lot about.

Then a host of other bloggers join in the union bashing. Like a wild mob bunch of kick'm when they are down, unions are acceptable targets of blame along with migrants labour force, everybody else says so, so it must be true.


Then we have CV who thinks Africa is rich in the production of food produce and we UK can get cheaper food imports from them. What was that other piece of analysis??? That's right, African's will farm, export their food and become well off and employed and not have to leave their countries flooding into EU and UK as migrants. That's a wonderful idea. Wonder why no one has thought of doing that before. It's obvious CV you are well read on daily trash and know not what you talk about. Laugh out loud indeed :LOL:


There is no substitution for doing ones own research that's for sure. (y)
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I'm pleased you are so amused :)
Just remember who's predictions become the reality. I wonder if this is the source of your angst? :LOL:

Btw, you know perfectly well that the EU is a protectionist organisation where there is zero real growth. The only reason that the organisation limps along is because the central planners are artificially propping it up. They don't believe in free market principles and as a result they are incapable of innovation and change.

Now, I can't put a timescale on it, but I am absolutely certain that the EU will disintegrate. Perhaps Brexit is the event that started it, or maybe the warnings were there before. Anyway, other events will come along and finish it off.

The new trends that are emerging are along the lines of regaining sovereignty, controlling and determining own future, border security. This has been seen with Brexit, Trump, Catalonia etc.
Who's next? Denmark, Austria, Hungary, Poland, Greece, Italy.

Anyway, you carry on burying your head in the sand like Nick Clegg and the rest of the reality deniers. I'm sure you will find solace in each others company. :LOL:
 
counter_violent said:
Time is running out for Germany and the EU more like. :rolleyes:


http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...a-Merkel-Barnier-Brexit-trade-deal-talks-bill
Click to expand...

It seems that Germany is the main beneficiary of the EU. By virtue of a much lower exchange rate. They don't have to rush for the sunbeds in the morning at the hotel, They probably own the hotel. Lower defence costs than being on their own. Especially not with an extreme leader. Letting the US rush into The Middle East etc. hot spots and wasting their money.
 
Pat494 said:
It seems that Germany is the main beneficiary of the EU. By virtue of a much lower exchange rate. They don't have to rush for the sunbeds in the morning at the hotel, They probably own the hotel. Lower defence costs than being on their own. Especially not with an extreme leader. Letting the US rush into The Middle East etc. hot spots and wasting their money.
Click to expand...

Also, with memories of the 20thC conflicts still reasonably fresh in their minds, I suspect that Germany has the most to gain psychologically, from a united Europe.
 
If I can join in.

The biggest problem with the eu is the euro and convergence criteria. Brexit is obviously an important issue but it is not the biggest facing the eu. On the brexit issue I think it is disgusting they are demanding money upfront without being clear how much they think we owe and blocking all other negotiations until it is paid. Maybe we should say no deal to them as a wake up call to start negotiating without the childishness.

Brad

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
FXX said:
If I can join in.

The biggest problem with the eu is the euro and convergence criteria. Brexit is obviously an important issue but it is not the biggest facing the eu. On the brexit issue I think it is disgusting they are demanding money upfront without being clear how much they think we owe and blocking all other negotiations until it is paid. Maybe we should say no deal to them as a wake up call to start negotiating without the childishness.

Brad

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It's even worse than that.
The EU runs a balance sheet, as does any organisation. The balance sheet has 2 sides, assets and liabilities. So the UK may well have some outstanding liabilities, but by the same rule, we are entitled to our share of the assets. It really is that simple.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200606
 
counter_violent said:
It's even worse than that.
The EU runs a balance sheet, as does any organisation. The balance sheet has 2 sides, assets and liabilities. So the UK may well have some outstanding liabilities, but by the same rule, we are entitled to our share of the assets. It really is that simple.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200606
Click to expand...

There you go, again! Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. This is not about balance sheets, anymore than the ball being in the other's court. You are bargainng a trading deal, which is what you want, with EU's request for EU citizens rights and money that they think that you owe them. That is what they want. If there is no deal, you walk away. The point is that you are not doing that.

Hammond is right, although he could have made a better choice of words. The EU comprises 27 members and they are standing firm on this. The UK was hoping for disunity. Disunity is what you seem to have in London and it is very bad for business to let the other side see that. That is one of the reasons that you are not getting anywhere.

The EU breaking up? You hope, but no one can be sure, especially in the time span of these talks.
 
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Splitlink said:
There you go, again! Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. This is not about balance sheets, anymore than the ball being in the other's court. You are bargainng a trading deal, which is what you want, with EU's request for EU citizens rights and money that they think that you owe them. That is what they want. If there is no deal, you walk away. The point is that you are not doing that.

Hammond is right, although he could have made a better choice of words. The EU comprises 27 members and they are standing firm on this. The UK was hoping for disunity. Disunity is what you seem to have in London and it is very bad for business to let the other side see that. That is one of the reasons that you are not getting anywhere.

The EU breaking up? You hope, but no one can be sure, especially in the time span of these talks.
Click to expand...

Nope, the EU team have made it quite clear that we are NOT negotiating any trade deal until the Brexit bill is settled. The Brexit bill is for commitments and wotnot until we leave. None of this is anything to do with a trade deal. So my point about assets and liabilities stands. Once this is sorted out, any future trade arrangements will of course have costs, but they have sod all to do with assets and liabilities currently.

On the point of no deal, the 27 will not stand firm on this issue, some of those member countries will lose out very badly, so all we need do is wait until they put pressure back on the EU.
 
Atilla, working people are very nice folk. Not just in the UK, but everywhere else, as well. Unfortunately, they account for most of the electorate and they cannot be bothered to vote.

My father waa a busman. In those days, LT unions were organised by garages, so one garage controlled all the bus routes that ran out of it. My father told me that there was a hard core that was enough to form a quorum. How many were in a quorum, I don't know, but they used to bring a whole garage out just because the majority could not be bothered to go and vote.

That is the same all the way up the line. No matter what you may say about them being the weakest, they are only the weakest because of their own fault and they are so easily led by a handful who are natural talkers.

I, personally, feel that history is just that. Mainly, I am more interested in my own experiences. I am quite capable of blaming whoever I believe was responsible for what goes wrong in a country. In most cases, the blame lies with the majority, for allowing it to happen. It's no good blaming Lafarge and Johnson for allowing Brexit to happen and for being ambitious.
 
Splitlink said:
Atilla, working people are very nice folk. Not just in the UK, but everywhere else, as well. Unfortunately, they account for most of the electorate and they cannot be bothered to vote.

My father waa a busman. In those days, LT unions were organised by garages, so one garage controlled all the bus routes that ran out of it. My father told me that there was a hard core that was enough to form a quorum. How many were in a quorum, I don't know, but they used to bring a whole garage out just because the majority could not be bothered to go and vote.

That is the same all the way up the line. No matter what you may say about them being the weakest, they are only the weakest because of their own fault and they are so easily led by a handful who are natural talkers.

I, personally, feel that history is just that. Mainly, I am more interested in my own experiences. I am quite capable of blaming whoever I believe was responsible for what goes wrong in a country. In most cases, the blame lies with the majority, for allowing it to happen. It's no good blaming Lafarge and Johnson for allowing Brexit to happen and for being ambitious.
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Ditto the US. The right-wing prevails because they are so fanatical about right-wing issues, e.g., abortion and guns, and vote. The left-wing isn't as fanatical about left-wing issues -- whatever those might be -- so they don't vote. And because the right-wing votes, they are catered to by the politicians who are desperate to hang on to their elected offices (as opposed to going out and getting real jobs).

And so here we are, with a "president" who thinks he's host of a reality show.
 
Over the weekend heard some Brexiters talking on Andrew Marr show and on other political chat shows.

The word is, let's be a little more optimistic and get behind Brexit. We can do this they blurb. What is funny in a really strange way, is that these words are coming from the Conservative party. The so called party of business.

When asked if they have a business plan and can we have a look at their white paper on the proposal, there is zilch. No need. We know we can do this. We don't need a business plan. We've done it before in 18th century and we can do it again in the 21st. We just need to be a little more up beat. Come on guys. Believe in your selves.

Bit like a placebo. Believe in your own BS. That is a tough act to follow.


Then we have TM the bloody difficult woman trying to achieve bloody difficult feats with negative **** poor performance.

You've got to ask if she's got nothing else to do but go over there for din din's with the enemy?

Although Mrs May's trip to Brussels was not made public during last week's negotiations, Downing Street sources insisted it had "been in the diary for weeks".

Over a dinner expected to last 90 minutes, the PM hopes to end a stalemate over the three initial topics for negotiation - the amount the UK owes the EU when it leaves, the future rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens living in the EU, and what happens on the Northern Ireland border.

The EU side says that until "sufficient progress" is made on these three items they will not begin discussing the UK's post-Brexit relations - things like trade arrangements and defence.

ROTFLMAO. First Trump and now the EU. UK belittled all the way.

Daft Brexiters undermining the nation with lies and deceit. Sooner or later the buck will have to stop.

Eurosceptics, rich toffs will cut off their noses to spite their faces. To them it's just pure political ambition to get names on history books. Absolute feck all to do with national interest.


The time has come for Theresa May to tell the nation: Brexit can’t be done
 
Atilla said:
Over the weekend heard some Brexiters talking on Andrew Marr show and on other political chat shows.

The word is, let's be a little more optimistic and get behind Brexit. We can do this they blurb. What is funny in a really strange way, is that these words are coming from the Conservative party. The so called party of business.

When asked if they have a business plan and can we have a look at their white paper on the proposal, there is zilch. No need. We know we can do this. We don't need a business plan. We've done it before in 18th century and we can do it again in the 21st. We just need to be a little more up beat. Come on guys. Believe in your selves.

Bit like a placebo. Believe in your own BS. That is a tough act to follow.


Then we have TM the bloody difficult woman trying to achieve bloody difficult feats with negative **** poor performance.

You've got to ask if she's got nothing else to do but go over there for din din's with the enemy?

Although Mrs May's trip to Brussels was not made public during last week's negotiations, Downing Street sources insisted it had "been in the diary for weeks".

Over a dinner expected to last 90 minutes, the PM hopes to end a stalemate over the three initial topics for negotiation - the amount the UK owes the EU when it leaves, the future rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens living in the EU, and what happens on the Northern Ireland border.

The EU side says that until "sufficient progress" is made on these three items they will not begin discussing the UK's post-Brexit relations - things like trade arrangements and defence.

ROTFLMAO. First Trump and now the EU. UK belittled all the way.

Daft Brexiters undermining the nation with lies and deceit. Sooner or later the buck will have to stop.

Eurosceptics, rich toffs will cut off their noses to spite their faces. To them it's just pure political ambition to get names on history books. Absolute feck all to do with national interest.


The time has come for Theresa May to tell the nation: Brexit can’t be done
Click to expand...
Hi Atilla

I have never heard of any government having a business plan for their affairs. After brexit the UK will operate on wto rules like we do with the rest of the world now. These brexit talks are a joke but not because our negotiators are useless but rather because the EU refuse to negotiate until a blank cheque is handed over and UK agrees to sign after the EU fills in the numbers. I keep hearing people compare this to a divorce procedure and assume the UK needs to pay up. Well In a divorce procedure all assets are added to the negotiations. If we added up all the contributions since joining it would probably amount to hundreds of billions of pounds so where is that in the debate? I think the EU purposely left out money in article 50 because of this contentious issue. So here we are trying to negotiate with people that only want money and are forgetting how much we already own in partnership. You might think they are all silly while I think anyone would be struggling in this situation. How can we negotiate when they are completely ignoring the obvious and pushing for something that only a fool would accept.

Brad
 
FXX said:
Hi Atilla

I have never heard of any government having a business plan for their affairs. After brexit the UK will operate on wto rules like we do with the rest of the world now. These brexit talks are a joke but not because our negotiators are useless but rather because the EU refuse to negotiate until a blank cheque is handed over and UK agrees to sign after the EU fills in the numbers. I keep hearing people compare this to a divorce procedure and assume the UK needs to pay up. Well In a divorce procedure all assets are added to the negotiations. If we added up all the contributions since joining it would probably amount to hundreds of billions of pounds so where is that in the debate? I think the EU purposely left out money in article 50 because of this contentious issue. So here we are trying to negotiate with people that only want money and are forgetting how much we already own in partnership. You might think they are all silly while I think anyone would be struggling in this situation. How can we negotiate when they are completely ignoring the obvious and pushing for something that only a fool would accept.

Brad
Click to expand...


Business plan is called the White Paper. Google it.

Legally, UK doesn't have to pay anything as you say because this scenario was never considered by EU.

Having said that any future negotiations will entail considerably more haggling and payments than now.

WTO rules are worst scenario. Cost implications and export substitution will take place and UK will lose considerably more than 9bn we pay for none of the benefits we currently get.

UK will continue to import whilst exports will be hit. These kinds of cost benefit analysis of gains and losses are not for the public to debate let alone comprehend.

As mentioned before UK departure will be positive gain for the German and French economies. UK media talking about German's paying more. They'll gain considerably more from the demise of UK finance, legal and pharmaceutical industries.

Eurosceptic fockers not interested in national interest but their own careers. UK public also not the brightest or best educated sadly so.


Right now, both the US and UK are dwindling stars that's losing their sparkle. If you don't see it now, you'll see it soon enough when that last glitter of light fades out.
 
Atilla said:
Business plan is called the White Paper. Google it.

Legally, UK doesn't have to pay anything as you say because this scenario was never considered by EU.

Having said that any future negotiations will entail considerably more haggling and payments than now.

WTO rules are worst scenario. Cost implications and export substitution will take place and UK will lose considerably more than 9bn we pay for none of the benefits we currently get.

UK will continue to import whilst exports will be hit. These kinds of cost benefit analysis of gains and losses are not for the public to debate let alone comprehend.

As mentioned before UK departure will be positive gain for the German and French economies. UK media talking about German's paying more. They'll gain considerably more from the demise of UK finance, legal and pharmaceutical industries.

Eurosceptic fockers not interested in national interest but their own careers. UK public also not the brightest or best educated sadly so.


Right now, both the US and UK are dwindling stars that's losing their sparkle. If you don't see it now, you'll see it soon enough when that last glitter of light fades out.
Click to expand...

WTO rules will be the worst scenario? Okay so we pay an extra % on things between the EU and adjustment is going to happen. Where we end up who knows! One thing I can say for sure though is you are at least partially wrong in thinking it will be the worst scenario. Not least because of this:

"UK's trade is measured through both imports and exports of goods and services. In 2016, exports of goods accounted for 56 percent of total exports, mainly mechanical machinery (14 percent), cars (10 percent), electrical machinery (8 percent), medicinal and pharmaceutical products (8 percent), aircraft (5 percent) and other miscellaneous manufactures (5 percent).

Main goods export partners were: the United States (16 percent), Germany (11 percent), France, the Netherlands and Ireland (6 percent each) and China (5 percent). Services accounted for 44 percent of total exports, mainly professional, scientific and technical activities; followed by the information and communication services. This page provides - United Kingdom Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news. United Kingdom Exports - actual data, historical chart and calendar of releases - was last updated on October of 2017."
https://tradingeconomics.com


As you can see we are trading very healthily with other countries.
 
Welcome to the forum btw fxx, Just a heads up, you can’t possibly win this argument against Atilla, he is our resident doom and gloom spokesman, As much as we love him. :love:
 
FXX said:
WTO rules will be the worst scenario? Okay so we pay an extra % on things between the EU and adjustment is going to happen. Where we end up who knows! One thing I can say for sure though is you are at least partially wrong in thinking it will be the worst scenario. Not least because of this:

"UK's trade is measured through both imports and exports of goods and services. In 2016, exports of goods accounted for 56 percent of total exports, mainly mechanical machinery (14 percent), cars (10 percent), electrical machinery (8 percent), medicinal and pharmaceutical products (8 percent), aircraft (5 percent) and other miscellaneous manufactures (5 percent).

Main goods export partners were: the United States (16 percent), Germany (11 percent), France, the Netherlands and Ireland (6 percent each) and China (5 percent). Services accounted for 44 percent of total exports, mainly professional, scientific and technical activities; followed by the information and communication services. This page provides - United Kingdom Exports - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news. United Kingdom Exports - actual data, historical chart and calendar of releases - was last updated on October of 2017."
https://tradingeconomics.com


As you can see we are trading very healthily with other countries.
Click to expand...

And that will expand not contract. People like Atilla assume we will continue with some kind of reciprocal trade arrangement with the EU. Nothing could be further from the truth.
For starters, we will do more internal trade (buy British) and secondly, over priced EU suppliers (protected status) will be replaced by global suppliers. The nett result of these two actions will be that Britons will be much better off, both personally and collectively as the country bridges it's import export BOP.
GBP value will also rise over time as the UK demonstrates accelerating growth, whilst the EU (if it still exists) will struggle to stay competative and continue to lose global market share.

It doesn't matter a jot if there is a deal or no deal. The market will decide how we move forward.
 
As Trump withdraws the US from the world stage, and China and Russia, among others, are waiting in the wings, it is unlikely that the UK will fill the void.
 
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