Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

I bet you were shouting at the telly at QT other night, Jacob Reece-Mog towered above the rest when answering brexit questions, a clear vision of how things should be post brexit...

Did watch Q-Time but he exemplifies points I've made here about him and our class based education system.

As with most things including our finance indsutry UK has been trading on past achievements. The stuck up power hungry nobs will see to the end of that with Brexit too.

What did he say that you agreed with and why?

 

[mike.]

Did watch Q-Time but he exemplifies points I've made here about him and our class based education system.

As with most things including our finance indsutry UK has been trading on past achievements. The stuck up power hungry nobs will see to the end of that with Brexit too.

What did he say that you agreed with and why?

I cant recite all of it but i felt i was agreeing with him throughout the questions regarding brexit, Issues like remaining part of the ECJ, Im just popping out...ill answer later..

 

[Atilla]

You give him benefit of the doubt do you?

Watch this video clip of what Barnier says carefully.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...lds-line-on-brexit-even-as-u-k-stance-softens


Sir Craig said it is "simply not true" that Britain can't leave the EU while keeping some of the benefits of it, but Mr Rees-Mogg accused him of "terminological inexactitude".

Michel Barnier is speaking terminological inexactitude then. Perhaps RM can explain what Michel Barnier is really saying and whether we should take him seriously or not.


Much BS from RM imo.


So far only TM and her cabinet knows how we can leave the EU and keep some of the benefits? Remains a mystery to the rest of us including Parliament.

 

[tomorton]

Blimey Tim and Split - you chaps are quite dug in aren't you?

Meanwhile, the student loan arrangement offers opportunities that would have either been unavailable or very much restricted if we go back to the years of grants and no course fees.

It seems that one of the best ways of avoiding debt in life would be to avoid poverty. A great way to do that would be to get a really good education and find a well-paid secure job.

So, far from teaching the young to accept a debt burden, they are being equipped to avoid it. They are being taught to value the benefits of hard work and education.

 

[dbphoenix]

but the fact remains that the personal debt bubble is getting ever larger and that sooner or later it's going to burst. When - not if - that happens, it'll be very bad news for us all.
Tim.

The personal debt bubble has already burst twice within the last sixteen years and the overall consequences have been relatively mild. I see no reason to believe that it's going to be any different this time.

The wealthy, as well as governments, need consumers. So credit is easy and bankruptcies are available to everyone. Let nothing interfere with shopping.

 

[dbphoenix]

It seems that one of the best ways of avoiding debt in life would be to avoid poverty. A great way to do that would be to get a really good education . . .

Or a really good apprenticeship . . .

 

[tomorton]

Or a really good apprenticeship . . .

In the UK, salaries paid to graduates far exceed those paid to ex-apprentices. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills found that in 2015 working-age graduates would earn an average of £32,500 compared with £22,000 for non-graduates. The proportion of job vacancies specifying a graduate is required is increasing. For a job market in which employees don't expect to be with the same employer of maybe not even in the same industry for life, a degree offers much greater flexibility. The degree / university "experience" is of far broader advantage to the individual as a person.

 

[timsk]

The personal debt bubble has already burst twice within the last sixteen years and the overall consequences have been relatively mild. I see no reason to believe that it's going to be any different this time. . .

Well dbp, that rather depends on ones definition of 'relatively mild'. I suspect most people would regard coming within a gnats c0ck of total financial meltdown in the 2007/8 crash as being altogether more serious.
Tim.

 

[dbphoenix]

In the UK, salaries paid to graduates far exceed those paid to ex-apprentices. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills found that in 2015 working-age graduates would earn an average of £32,500 compared with £22,000 for non-graduates. The proportion of job vacancies specifying a graduate is required is increasing. For a job market in which employees don't expect to be with the same employer of maybe not even in the same industry for life, a degree offers much greater flexibility. The degree / university "experience" is of far broader advantage to the individual as a person.

Depends on what the individual wants. A university degree is not the end-all, be-all for self-fulfillment. And there's all that debt.

As to the university "experience", maybe. I got more out of it than I did the classes, but I likely would have got just as much out of a commune.

 

[dbphoenix]

Well dbp, that rather depends on ones definition of 'relatively mild'. I suspect most people would regard coming within a gnats c0ck of total financial meltdown in the 2007/8 crash as being altogether more serious.
Tim.

And yet they appear to have learned very little, if anything, since we're more or less where we were in '07, at which time we were more or less where we were in '01, hence the "relatively mild" effects.

 

[tomorton]

Depends on what the individual wants. A university degree is not the end-all, be-all for self-fulfillment. And there's all that debt.

As to the university "experience", maybe. I got more out of it than I did the classes, but I likely would have got just as much out of a commune.

Firstly forget the debt - its peanuts if you're earning a graduate salary. And if you're not its literally £0 per year.

Money pays for a lot of opportunity for self-fulfilment and adds to the flexibility to seek out increasingly more rewarding jobs without the imminent stress of a certain sized wage packet to pay off bills. Or even worse, pay off debt.

Don't forget, the more you earn, the more good you can do in the world.

 

[Atilla]

Firstly forget the debt - its peanuts if you're earning a graduate salary. And if you're not its literally £0 per year.

Money pays for a lot of opportunity for self-fulfilment and adds to the flexibility to seek out increasingly more rewarding jobs without the imminent stress of a certain sized wage packet to pay off bills. Or even worse, pay off debt.

Don't forget, the more you earn, the more good you can do in the world.

Or harm if you buy a Jumbo 747 to get your house in the middle of the desert...

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-travoltas-house-is-airport-with-runways-for-planes-2014-9?IR=T


People will do what they can having earned the lolly irrespective of what damage they may be inflicting to rest of mankind.

Sort of in discreet external ways...

 

[dbphoenix]

Firstly forget the debt - its peanuts if you're earning a graduate salary. And if you're not its literally £0 per year.

Money pays for a lot of opportunity for self-fulfilment and adds to the flexibility to seek out increasingly more rewarding jobs without the imminent stress of a certain sized wage packet to pay off bills. Or even worse, pay off debt.

Don't forget, the more you earn, the more good you can do in the world.

While your first statement may be true, I disagree wholeheartedly with everything else you've posted here, particularly the last. But this isn't the thread for it, and I doubt that an online debate about the matter would result in much of benefit anyway.

 

[Splitlink]

After all split,debt its a man made thing not a force of nature, can we not write everything off and reset the clock set back to zero.....start again.

It should be worrying someone. Currency devaluation, I mean. I think that that is what will, eventually, happen. because cash in the bank is devalueing every day, until it is invested.

Anyway, to go back to the beginning. Student loans. They put young people on the debt trail.

 

[Splitlink]

Blimey Tim and Split - you chaps are quite dug in aren't you?

Meanwhile, the student loan arrangement offers opportunities that would have either been unavailable or very much restricted if we go back to the years of grants and no course fees.

It seems that one of the best ways of avoiding debt in life would be to avoid poverty. A great way to do that would be to get a really good education and find a well-paid secure job.

So, far from teaching the young to accept a debt burden, they are being equipped to avoid it. They are being taught to value the benefits of hard work and education.

It sounds good. I wonder what the facts will be? The state lends to the student. , which the taxpayer pays to the government. The student pays it over ten? years when and if the student gets to a certain salary. So we could say that some of that money will never be paid back, right?

 

[mike.]

It should be worrying someone. Currency devaluation, I mean. I think that that is what will, eventually, happen. because cash in the bank is devalueing every day, until it is invested.

Anyway, to go back to the beginning. Student loans. They put young people on the debt trail.

Agreed, My daughter is going to university next year now..... staying on in 6th form another year as opposed to starting a foundation course this year...she is studying law and criminology, i was researching whether an apprenticeship might be better at the CPS, actually getting paid to learn instead of getting saddled with student debt...

 

[tomorton]

It sounds good. I wonder what the facts will be? The state lends to the student. , which the taxpayer pays to the government. The student pays it over ten? years when and if the student gets to a certain salary. So we could say that some of that money will never be paid back, right?

Yes Split, as has always been the case, the cost is not paid back in full by the graduate.

So both the supporters and critics of student loans agree that the public purse should meet the cost of degrees. They then split hairs over which method is best so that they can con a few more votes than the other lot.

Meanwhile, record numbers of students are enrolling on degree courses - they at least are not fooled by the politicians and the media.

 

[Atilla]

Yes Split, as has always been the case, the cost is not paid back in full by the graduate.

So both the supporters and critics of student loans agree that the public purse should meet the cost of degrees. They then split hairs over which method is best so that they can con a few more votes than the other lot.

Meanwhile, record numbers of students are enrolling on degree courses - they at least are not fooled by the politicians and the media.

I'm happy to pay for university tuition fees as I feel we all benefit in the end.

As before I would favour means testing and free scholarships for skills in demand based on ability.

 

[timsk]

. . . As before I would favour means testing and free scholarships for skills in demand based on ability.

Isn't this what Jon said about 10 pages ago and c_v said - or something more or less along these lines - about 30 pages ago? Sounds good to me too. I don't suppose there's any danger of all the main subscribers to this thread arriving at a consensus of opinion is there? After 488 pages - surely we must all be able to agree on something!

 

[Atilla]

Isn't this what Jon said about 10 pages ago and c_v said - or something more or less along these lines - about 30 pages ago? Sounds good to me too. I don't suppose there's any danger of all the main subscribers to this thread arriving at a consensus of opinion is there? After 488 pages - surely we must all be able to agree on something!

Yes.

The thread is about consequences of Brexit however, and may run on for another 20 years.

Pace your self hombre