Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

New Tory civil war looms between Brexit-backers and Remainers



The Empire Strikes Back :idea:

 

[Splitlink]

I'm simply telling it like it is.

I don't think we will even get past stage One, the Brexit bill, before crying foul and stating that the EU are living in cuckoo land. At this point, and if the govt makes a good case, then the Tories troubles could be over. Either whip up the public into a frenzy, call another election, then tough it out.
Or sit and wait and do absolutely nothing for 15 months, pay no exit bill, then do any future business on WTO rules.

Either way, I think we are holding all the aces

It does not matter what we think. The UK has to start talking ASAP. Getting good agreements with the EU is the first thing to be done.

Fact. TM is not in such a strong position as she was a week ago.

In any case, the actual date for starting is June 19, so I must wait until then to see if it happens.

 

[dbphoenix]

Are you genuinely impressed with the facts and accept them as they are or just that he has gone to the trouble of listing his pov as opposed to resorting to soundbites?

Adopting the American right-wing definition of "fact" is a dangerous course.

 

[Atilla]

Adopting the American right-wing definition of "fact" is a dangerous course.

I hear what you are saying DB. They are not absolute facts but extensions and interpretation of what come to transpire as alternative facts.

For example the SNP vote. I think it is widely accepted the Scottish people voted to remain part of the UK as remaining in part of EU. Scotland is also for remaining in the EU.

So now CV is interpreting a switch to Conservatives as a vote for Brexit.

The more logical conclusion that comes out of this ofcourse is that SNP lost votes because of IndyRef2.

Clearly a cleverly worded misrepresentation of voting behaviour labelled as fact.


Now I ask you, would anyone here buy a second hand car from CV?

 

[dbphoenix]

It's a form of confirmation bias, something we all must guard against.

 

[cantagril]

What you have done is spoken much tosh with one or two statistical facts.

They are more a representation of your failing faculties, lack of comprehension and extreme bias but that's just my opinion.

.

I say there old chap! Any more of these jibes and there'll be fisticuffs

...and I must say that from where I stand CV is handling his dotage very well and the Tosh to Facts ( UK definition) ratio is not holding up too badly either. Contrast CV's pronouncements with the disingenuous and overall cynically mendacious politicians (yes, all of them - without exception) and their own litany of lies before, during and now after this last farce and I'd say he comes up smelling of roses.

Just my 1.77 pence worth.

Toodle pip

 

[Atilla]

I say there old chap! Any more of these jibes and there'll be fisticuffs

...and I must say that from where I stand CV is handling his dotage very well and the Tosh to Facts ( UK definition) ratio is not holding up too badly either. Contrast CV's pronouncements with the disingenuous and overall cynically mendacious politicians (yes, all of them - without exception) and their own litany of lies before, during and now after this last farce and I'd say he comes up smelling of roses.

Just my 1.77 € Cents worth.

Toodle pip

LOL - I'm sure Theresa May will also agree with CV along with many of the representitives in the Conservative party.

Doesn't change the fact that his version of facts still a load of Tosh.

If other politicians counter all that Tosh with more Tosh of their own then many peeps get stuck in the middle of much stinky pooh.


Well I'm glad you can see him coming out of this smelling of roses. Suggest you get closer to his rear enjoy all that delightful fragrance. I'll just sit out in my garden pruning them.

 

[dbphoenix]

If other politicians counter all that Tosh with more Tosh of their own then many peeps get stuck in the middle of much stinky pooh.

This is what journalists are supposed to be for. Do you have any left in the UK?

 

[Atilla]

This is what journalists are supposed to be for. Do you have any left in the UK?

I don't buy newspapers but do read around a lot.

I'd buy the Guardian and the Independent if I chose to read them. I used to read the Metro and Evening Standard daily but not for over a year now. Sometimes I still read the Daily Trash and Telegraph but brain just switches off at the total rubbish that's written.


Here is some perspective on leanings...

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers/

 

[tomorton]

This is what journalists are supposed to be for. Do you have any left in the UK?

Thanks for this question, Turns out far more interesting than I had thought previously.

TV journalists here are heavily regulated and required not to show particular political affiliation. So day to day they are largely just moderators for political press releases. That said, the BBC recruits and favours left-leaning senior staff, and this applies to their journalists as much as other significant grades.

UK newspapers and their journalists are free to support a political party. The majority of titles support the Conservatives. These are also bought in much higher numbers than those supporting Labour. But much is being made of the strong suspicion that Labour successfully mobilised the youth vote in the recent election, who by and large don't buy newspapers anyway and get their screen news time elsewhere than via the main TV channels.

 

[cantagril]

Doesn't change the fact that his version of facts still a load of Tosh.

Through a glass darkly or through rose-tinted spectacles it's all a matter of interpretation. One man's truths are another man's lies.

If other politicians counter all that Tosh with more Tosh of their own then many peeps get stuck in the middle of much stinky pooh.

Look on the bright side: amidst all the doom, gloom and enduring poverty at least we are Tosh rich!

Well I'm glad you can see him coming out of this smelling of roses. Suggest you get closer to his rear enjoy all that delightful fragrance

With much regret I have to admit to being somewhat strait-laced and I fear we don't share the same proclivities so I'll leave CV's rear (& anyone else's for that matter) for your exclusive enjoyment .

....and for CV: I'm not at all sure that it's aces that we're holding. When the clock strikes midnight it might turn out to be something slightly more malodorous. Still, the people have spoke and having buttered their bread they now get to lie on it.

 

[dbphoenix]

Thanks for this question, Turns out far more interesting than I had thought previously.

TV journalists here are heavily regulated and required not to show particular political affiliation. So day to day they are largely just moderators for political press releases. That said, the BBC recruits and favours left-leaning senior staff, and this applies to their journalists as much as other significant grades.

UK newspapers and their journalists are free to support a political party. The majority of titles support the Conservatives. These are also bought in much higher numbers than those supporting Labour. But much is being made of the strong suspicion that Labour successfully mobilised the youth vote in the recent election, who by and large don't buy newspapers anyway and get their screen news time elsewhere than via the main TV channels.

I should have been clearer about what I meant by "journalist". Readers are of course just readers. But a true journalist is more interested in fact than spin. So while he may have political leanings of one sort or another, he's more interested in the truth of the matter.

Needless to say, genuine journalists are few and far between.

I find the left-wing rags as tiresome as the right, but the left does have a sense of humor which the right generally lacks.

 

[Atilla]

Through a glass darkly or through rose-tinted spectacles it's all a matter of interpretation. One man's truths are another man's lies. You being diplomatic here and giving space for the other fellow to exit courteously perhaps but it throws the matter of 'fact' out to the wolves.

Look on the bright side: amidst all the doom, gloom and enduring poverty at least we are Tosh rich!

With much regret I have to admit to being somewhat strait-laced and I fear we don't share the same proclivities so I'll leave CV's rear (& anyone else's for that matter) for your exclusive enjoyment .


....and for CV: I'm not at all sure that it's aces that we're holding. When the clock strikes midnight it might turn out to be something slightly more malodorous. Still, the people have spoke and having buttered their bread they now get to lie on it.

Agree about the aces and this is why we must not reveal our trump card to walk away. Listening to a German rep on TV, he asks even before negotiations have started TM is talking about walking away which is something he fails to understand. So I'm not alone.

This is how I imagine negotiations will go...

EU: Please sit down Mrs May and let us start negotiating UK's departure
TM: If I don't get what I want I'm walking. No deal is better than a bad deal. I told my countryfolk, Brexit means Brexit and it must be so otherwise I will not be representing them and you know we have democracy in our great country.
TM: Also, Brexit must be Red Blue and White coz that's what I promised and that's what people voted for.
EU: Well we can't promise you all those things just yet we'll need to understand what exactly you want so please take your seat and lets start the negotiation process.
TM: No wait, before we start our negotiation I'd like to show you that I have a bigger mandate from the people than just half. I can then come back and tell you what I really really want and you will give it to me.

June 8th Elections

TM: Only I can negotiate Brexit in 10 days time as I am the only one who can take a strong and stable government and destabilise it by pissing off the people and uniting a disunited opposition.

TM: Now I hope you have seen what I am capable of. What have you got to offer me? Bright eyed and bushy tailed

 

[cantagril]

Listening to a German rep on TV, he asks even before negotiations have started TM is talking about walking away which is something he fails to understand. So I'm not alone.

We're all in excellent company, fools and foolers all fooled....again. I'm sort of grateful that through effective medication I've excused myself from serious contemplation of the unfolding tragi-comedy as my whole being wants to reach for the LMG and just start doing what comes (or used to come) naturally. ...and I'd be really spoilt for choice as who to start with.

 

[counter_violent]

Atilla, you have the attention span of a gnat.

Btw, you are no Alistair Campbell when it comes to spinning. He got away with it for years. Unfortunately, I will afford you no such luxury.

Post 2888 deals with the SNP and the indy ref2 question.

 

[Atilla]

I should have been clearer about what I meant by "journalist". Readers are of course just readers. But a true journalist is more interested in fact than spin. So while he may have political leanings of one sort or another, he's more interested in the truth of the matter.

Needless to say, genuine journalists are few and far between.

I find the left-wing rags as tiresome as the right, but the left does have a sense of humor which the right generally lacks.

You are right Db as after exasperation with our predicament there is only throwing ones hands in the air and laughing at ones self left to do. Humbling humour.

I think this kind of jolly response when the chips are down is what goes to making the British character so great and literally strong. Unbreakable. To laugh at the face of adversity and soldier on. Not many nations or characters have this ability.

I also think and feel it is what binds us together that we can all laugh along and at each other.

 

[Atilla]

Atilla, you have the attention span of a gnat.

Btw, you are no Alistair Campbell when it comes to spinning. He got away with it for years. Unfortunately, I will afford you no such luxury.

Post 2888 deals with the SNP and the indy ref2 question.

So what are we to think of your post re: presenting SNP going backwards being down to frustrating Brexit then?

Deliberate labelling a falsity as fact or you forgot you know that already but would make some capital out of it.

You ain't no fox CV. You may have gone silvery but not exactly the silver fox :cheesy:

 

[dbphoenix]

You are right Db as after exasperation with our predicament there is only throwing ones hands in the air and laughing at ones self left to do. Humbling humour.

I think this kind of jolly response when the chips are down is what goes to making the British character so great and literally strong. Unbreakable. To laugh at the face of adversity and soldier on. Not many nations or characters have this ability.

I also think and feel it is what binds us together that we can all laugh along and at each other.

It's been pointed out that there are no Islamic stand-up comics.

 

[Atilla]

It's been pointed out that there are no Islamic stand-up comics.

Yep I agree with that pov and also some of the best are Jewish imo.

I love Jewish humour

 

[counter_violent]

So what are we to think of your post re: presenting SNP going backwards being down to frustrating Brexit then?

Deliberate labelling a falsity as fact or you forgot you know that already but would make some capital out of it.

You ain't no fox CV. You may have gone silvery but not exactly the silver fox :cheesy:

How many times do I have to cover the same ground?

SNP lost 21 seats. Fact.
Tories gained 12 seats. Fact.
Labour gained 6 seats. Fact.
Lib Dems gained 3 seats. Fact.

When you look at the vote share, Tories gained more than the SNP lost. Fact.
Lib Dem vote share went down. Fact.
The SNP's Two highest profile MP's lost their seats, to the Tories, I might add. Fact.

If Scotland wanted Independence, they would have backed the SNP.
The fact that Scots voted Tory in huge numbers, suggests they are happy with the Tory position. A strong union and the Tories negotiating the Brexit position.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results/scotland

You simply can't spin away these facts !