Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

I'm guilty of name calling.

However, in real world when canvassing I'm the one who gets called names by sometimes very unsavoury people.

At times I feel like a reforming Alcoholic.

I will try harder. I know you guys are all right and I'm wrong.


Sorry.

 

[timsk]

Hi dbp,

Excellent rationalization for behaving childishly.

My post was largely tongue in cheek - not a serious suggestion - for reasons which I hope are obvious. However, the underlying point running though it is a serious one. And that is that those who live in glass houses shoudn't throw stones. I must stress here that I'm not talking about Jason101 personally, or Atilla or indeed anyone on this forum who voted remain. But the fact remains that those of us who voted to leave have suffered - and continue to suffer - much worse levels abuse than anything that's been leveled at those who voted to remain.

Perhaps if we put as much effort into considering our positions as we do thinking up names to call each other . . .

I think it's fair to say that everyone who has made substantial contributions to this thread - on both sides of the argument - has put a lot of effort into considering their positions. I certainly have and I know this because my starting position prior to the referendum was to vote remain. I completely changed my views after investigating the issues thoroughly and gaining an insight into how the EU actually functions.
Tim.

 

[Splitlink]

I think that TM should go ahead with Brexit. That is the most important issue on the plate, right now, and she has her negotiating team formed. They must have a plan put together by now. Is there anyone better? Two months have passed since Art 50 was signed. 22 months to go and time passes sooner than one thinks. Get it sorted.

Let the Brits do what they like with her, afterwards. Elections, whatever.

 

[dbphoenix]

Hi dbp,

My post was largely tongue in cheek - not a serious suggestion - for reasons which I hope are obvious. However, the underlying point running though it is a serious one. And that is that those who live in glass houses shoudn't throw stones. I must stress here that I'm not talking about Jason101 personally, or Atilla or indeed anyone on this forum who voted remain. But the fact remains that those of us who voted to leave have suffered - and continue to suffer - much worse levels abuse than anything that's been leveled at those who voted to remain.

All of which is a fine rationalization for calling those who want to remain "remoaners". Suffering abuse? Are you serious?

I think it's fair to say that everyone who has made substantial contributions to this thread - on both sides of the argument - has put a lot of effort into considering their positions. I certainly have and I know this because my starting position prior to the referendum was to vote remain. I completely changed my views after investigating the issues thoroughly and gaining an insight into how the EU actually functions.

Perhaps they have put a lot of effort into considering their positions. Yet with few exceptions they are incapable of stating those positions without ridiculing those who disagree.

The "glass house" argument is irrelevant. Childish voters elect childish leaders. That should be abundantly clear now more than ever. Leaders the world over, including the US and the UK, all appear to have graduated from clown college. And yet we are faced with problems that will determine the survival of the human race. At what point does hope become self-delusion?

 

[Splitlink]

May and Merkel agree that talks to begin in next couple of weeks.

That is not June 19--it is June 25. Anything to waste time.

 

[Atilla]

I think that TM should go ahead with Brexit. That is the most important issue on the plate, right now, and she has her negotiating team formed. They must have a plan put together by now. Is there anyone better? Two months have passed since Art 50 was signed. 22 months to go and time passes sooner than one thinks. Get it sorted.

Let the Brits do what they like with her, afterwards. Elections, whatever.

Strongly disagree.

Even the Tory party now referring to Brexit and Eurosceptics as Cancer in the party that needs to be removed. Tumor that's been idling away for the last 40 years. Problem is those who feel strongly have a party to vote for UKIP. Let them.

Outcome as they lurch to the right will be clear enough. Much like Corbyn should the party lurch too far to the left. British people will vote and democracy will prevail.

Moreover, young people now in the foray. The future is about them, for it is they who'll carry us forward.


As for TM I don't think you get the picture. The more info on background becomes clear the more we can see what kind of strong and stable government meant. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40233864


Thank Goodness for our Parliament.

 

[mike.]

Moreover, young people now in the foray. The future is about them, for it is they who'll carry us forward.

They will have to get used to the man promising sweeties sometimes cant deliver..

 

[Splitlink]

Strongly disagree.

Even the Tory party now referring to Brexit and Eurosceptics as Cancer in the party that needs to be removed. Tumor that's been idling away for the last 40 years. Problem is those who feel strongly have a party to vote for UKIP. Let them.

Outcome as they lurch to the right will be clear enough. Much like Corbyn should the party lurch too far to the left. British people will vote and democracy will prevail.

Moreover, young people now in the foray. The future is about them, for it is they who'll carry us forward.


As for TM I don't think you get the picture. The more info on background becomes clear the more we can see what kind of strong and stable government meant. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40233864


Thank Goodness for our Parliament.

Corbyn said, today, that he is sure that there will be elections towards the end of this year, or next. Even he is not optimistic enough to expect anything before then. In the meantime, the clock is ticking relentlessly and to overturn Brexit, now that the famous Art 50 has been signed, requires all the 27 member states to agree.

I'm not saying that this cannot be done but it is going to be more difficult than, just, snapping your fingers and saying "we are having elections on June 8". You, still, have Boris on the front bench, plus his cronies to overcome.

 

[Atilla]

Corbyn said, today, that he is sure that there will be elections towards the end of this year, or next. Even he is not optimistic enough to expect anything before then. In the meantime, the clock is ticking relentlessly and to overturn Brexit, now that the famous Art 50 has been signed, requires all the 27 member states to agree.

I'm not saying that this cannot be done but it is going to be more difficult than, just, snapping your fingers and saying "we are having elections on June 8". You, still, have Boris on the front bench, plus his cronies to overcome.

EU will not play ball because of the bloody difficult woman.

Once she's gone it'll be different. If they still choose to play hardball after that then so be it we'll just repeat history.


Having said that it seems in her haste to take control and show she's in power, she's been too hasty announcing agreement and without consulting her cabinet or party. Doesn't seem to have any friends - how strange? No one is coming to her defence. Should we be surprised?

This now throws a few spanners in to the works with respect to Tory's standing re: LGB groups and DUP relations, conflict of interest and risks peace process. Coalition may well end up damaging Tory's.

She really has to go having now seen her true abilities pretty much as Tomorton pointed out, remarkably so it seems reality resembles the Quangocrat Queen theory.


The ideal partner may have been LibDems but after they shafted us I'm glad Tim Farron has said no to any coalition with Tories. It also highlights what a fantastic character Nick Clegg was to put country above party and personal interest in going along with Tory plans post financial crash and hung parliament after Gordon Brown.

 

[timsk]

Hi dbp,

All of which is a fine rationalization for calling those who want to remain "remoaners".

I fear the record's repeating itself - see my previous post.

Suffering abuse? Are you serious?

Sadly, yes.

Perhaps they have put a lot of effort into considering their positions. Yet with few exceptions they are incapable of stating those positions without ridiculing those who disagree.

Yes, I agree. And before you say it, I'm probably guilty of doing exactly this on occasion. Less so than others I hope - it's a human frailty after all - and I'm as human as the next person.

The "glass house" argument is irrelevant. Childish voters elect childish leaders. That should be abundantly clear now more than ever. Leaders the world over, including the US and the UK, all appear to have graduated from clown college. And yet we are faced with problems that will determine the survival of the human race. At what point does hope become self-delusion?

Well, if you're correct, then the new reality is childish voters and childish leaders - however you choose to define and characterize them. In which case, politicians, along with everyone else, will have to cut their cloth accordingly. IMO, of far greater concern to us all is that in a democratic society like yours and mine one group or party is allowed to impose their will and preferences on others in the (mistaken) belief that they know best. There is no better example of this than the infamous Gina Miller. That people actually admire and respect her for she's done is infinitely more disturbing to me than mere childish behaviour.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

Hi dbp,

I fear the record's repeating itself - see my previous post.


Sadly, yes.


Yes, I agree. And before you say it, I'm probably guilty of doing exactly this on occasion. Less so than others I hope - it's a human frailty after all - and I'm as human as the next person.


Well, if you're correct, then the new reality is childish voters and childish leaders - however you choose to define and characterize them. In which case, politicians, along with everyone else, will have to cut their cloth accordingly. IMO, of far greater concern to us all is that in a democratic society like yours and mine one group or party is allowed to impose their will and preferences on others in the (mistaken) belief that they know best. There is no better example of this than the infamous Gina Miller. That people actually admire and respect her for she's done is infinitely more disturbing to me than mere childish behaviour.
Tim.

Tim I hope you realise the hypocrisy of your statement here.

You putting your self above the highest court in the land? She won her case. You should be glad parliament has got it's voice back along with some decent opposition.

Are you really serious. I feel like saying GYHOOYA.

Instead I'll be polite and say just take a minute out, go and sit in the naughty corner and think about what you have written???

If I had any powers I'd throw you in to an isolation chamber and let you cool off a little for being in contempt of court.

Along with your leader it seems you are another tyrant in the making.


Read other peoples comments to the Daily Trash and get a bit of fresh air.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...british-newspapers-react-judges-brexit-ruling

 

[counter_violent]

Corbyn said, today, that he is sure that there will be elections towards the end of this year, or next. Even he is not optimistic enough to expect anything before then. In the meantime, the clock is ticking relentlessly and to overturn Brexit, now that the famous Art 50 has been signed, requires all the 27 member states to agree.

I'm not saying that this cannot be done but it is going to be more difficult than, just, snapping your fingers and saying "we are having elections on June 8". You, still, have Boris on the front bench, plus his cronies to overcome.

Never mind Boris and the cronies. I'm telling you now, the people made a decision on the EU when asked the question. We will not be changing direction.

If you want proof of this, then you only need look at what happened in Scotland, where the people made a decision to stay part of the UK and Sturgeon was punished for banging on about an issue that had already been resolved.

 

[timsk]

. . . You putting your self above the highest court in the land? She won her case. You should be glad parliament has got it's voice back along with some decent opposition. . .

Lol Atilla!
Yes, she won her case but, as we all know, sometimes the law is an a$$. She merely exploited an obscure loophole that served no purpose other than to waste the government's time and our money. If one chooses to believe Theresa may's reasons for calling the election then, in no small measure, it's because of the actions of Gina Miler and her ilk. Had it not been for her, we may not be in the mess we're now in. Doubtless, she feels very proud of herself and she's certainly earned her place as a footnote in political history - quite possibly at the expense of all of us.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

Leadsom increases her standing in the reshuffle.

I wonder if May is lining her up for a vacant leadership contest further down the road.

Interesting development

 

[Atilla]

Lol Atilla!
Yes, she won her case but, as we all know, sometimes the law is an a$$. She merely exploited an obscure loophole that served no purpose other than to waste the government's time and our money. If one chooses to believe Theresa may's reasons for calling the election then, in no small measure, it's because of the actions of Gina Miler and her ilk. Had it not been for her, we may not be in the mess we're now in. Doubtless, she feels very proud of herself and she's certainly earned her place as a footnote in political history - quite possibly at the expense of all of us.
Tim.

So the law was an ass and Theresa May correct in her approach to boycott Parliamentary process along with not appearing in national debate and as we now know not referring manifesto to colleagues in cabinet or party. Daily Trash is also an upright standing national paper with no bias or political favour siding with TM.

But Gina Miler and her ilk are wrong along with the judges.

NOT ONLY THAT but if not for Gina Miler 'we' (you mean TM, Tory party and the Nation) would not be in this mess.


OMG you and CV are really going delusional. Consequences of Brexit I guess. You guys need to see a doctor of some sort.


Next time a circus comes round your way I'd recommend you join the show.

 

[mike.]

Breaking News....

Michael Gove returns to the cabinet as environment minister.... George Osborn still a little bitter after his sacking... saying T.M is " dead woman walking"

Jeremy Corbyn is still celebrating his 3rd election defeat in a row.. he enjoyed it that much he's calling for a second election straight away ... while Tim Farron, well ...... Has anyone seen him ?

 

[Jason101]

Hi Jason,

My post was in response to a comment that Mike made and was in no way an attack on you. Be that as it may, I duly note that you take umbrage at the label 'remoaners' and, after some reflection, have this suggestion for you to consider. You decide on an appropriate collective noun that does not offend you that describes the many remain voters who continually voice their dissatisfaction at the result of the referendum and, in particular, their unhappiness with those who voted to leave. I will then do all I can to encourage Brexiteers to drop 'the r word' and use the new word of your choosing. In return, I ask one small thing. Please will you ask all the _______________ (insert new word here) to respond in kind by not labeling those of us who voted to leave as a bunch of toxic xenophobic racists, consumed by hate and have peanuts for brains that are incapable of understanding the issues. Obviously, these labels aren't anywhere near as offensive as the r word but, nonetheless, they're not very pleasant. That's a fair deal wouldn't you say?

Now, on to Mrs. Miller. Yes, I think she's an attractive woman. Unfortunately, my compliments about her begin and end there. You asked me if I've ever done anything like she has? In other words, you're asking if I've ever embarked on an epic vanity project because I have the time, money and influence to take the government down a pointless cul-de-sac that serves no purpose other than to waste everyone's time and heaven knows how many thousands of pounds from the public purse. The woman's a disgrace and she should be ashamed of herself. So, in answer to your question - no I've never done anything so self centered and egotistical. Unlike her, I have the mental fortitude to accept that I live in a democracy and to abide by the results it delivers - even when I don't always agree with them.
Tim.

Tim, you have complety missed the same point again.
You have spent all of your post on tribal feuding.
My point is the lack of factual based debate.
I'm fed up with the lack of fact based debate in this election and the brexit campaign, it has been slander and sound bites. You have just replied with more.
I feel as though I'm going crazy.

 

[Atilla]

Well I'm really impressed with the gang of three; Mike CV and Timsk in the face of some strong adverse diabolical grave errors of judgement continue to display loyalty and support to their weak and wobbly leader.

Jolly good show chaps.

One for all and all for one and all that but I wonder if you were in her cabinet whether she'd even bother to talk to you let alone look at your faces for entertainment.


I'm impressed with your continued misplaced loyalty. I should qualify impressed with only your loyalty. Equally dismayed as to how slow you three are at catching up with events.

You two can join Tim when the next circus visits your town...


As for Gove and Leadsom, how hilarious, the moo moo is going ahead with a hard Brexit despite getting her mandate from the people to put public services first.

Hope you can all see what she is doing...

Here's a refresher. Worth listening again to see what she asked for and what she got. The end is just brilliant. Lost count on the strong and stable leadership repeats. Her husband surely wears ear plugs. :cheesy:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39630009

Enjoy

 

[mike.]

Atilla..I feel a sense of bitterness Matey in your recent posts...I fully understand how your feeling after loosing Brexit vote then Tim not becoming P.M...I was thinking If i pm you next weeks S&p500 winning numbers, will a gold medal put a smile back on those little chop's ....:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

[Atilla]

Atilla..I feel a sense of bitterness Matey in your recent posts...I fully understand how your feeling after loosing Brexit vote then Tim not becoming P.M...I was thinking If i pm you next weeks S&p500 winning numbers, will a gold medal put a smile back on those little chop's ....:cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

That's great Mikey, it's good to know you'll always be there for me like TM no matter how wrong I am.

A true friend.

I've come across some confidential material online and I think you should pass it to you know who.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ot-softer-brexit-to-keep-u-k-in-single-market