Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

LOL - You mean Tory + DUP?

Yes, not seen it yet, maybe it's just a little too un-PC and it would be too insensitive for the mainstream during the current period, surely?

 

[Signalcalc]

Here's the next prediction:

1. CONDUP in contravention of Good Friday Agreement.
2. Legal challenge to stop it.
3. Labour get the option and form a minority govt.
4. Labour f^ck up economy, unemployment rises, Brexit a balls up etc etc
5. Tories back in next election.

 

[tomorton]

If you ALWAYS let the other side know why would one be inferring anything?

Let's say I'm participating in a boot sale:

- Cost of pitch is based on size of stall (GDP)
- The boot sale market place has rules enforced by ECJ and ToR that determines what buyers and sellers in the market can do and where they can pitch in the field. This is the same for all market members
- No sale of external goods on stalls other than what is driven in through bootsale gates
- I have the 2nd biggest van among 28 vans in the market place

I now have a new wish list:
- Not be party to rules of ECJ and ToR ( I'd like my Sovereignty back )
- Not to pay fees based on size of van ( It's not worth 9bn based on my GDP )
- I'd like to bring in goods and services into the boot sale from other sources other than driven in my van ( I want to trade with other boot sales at the same time through my own bilateral trade agreements )


If the other 27 members aren't prepared to meet my new terms, I'm walking away because a bad deal is worse than no deal. What ever that means???


Now try and explain to me what the benefits of UK bargaining position has -> to the remaining 27 members?

But not letting the other side know you might walk doesn't gain anything anyway.

 

[Jason101]

Negotiating Brexit

Theresa May called this election for a personal indorsment for her to carry out Brexit Negotiations. She has lost her majority and now needs to be propped up by a dubious minor party with it's own agenda to the rest of the UK.

1. Can she keep her Job?
1. Should she be negotiating brexit?

 

[tomorton]

Theresa May called this election for a personal indorsment for her to carry out Brexit Negotiations. She has lost her majority and now needs to be propped up by a dubious minor party with it's own agenda to the rest of the UK.

1. Can she keep her Job?
1. Should she be negotiating brexit?

1. No. There will be a leadership challenge as soon as she stumbles into another issue that divides her MP's. Months, if not weeks.

2. Probably not, but we're stuck with her or whoever the Conservatives put up. It should be a Brexiteer, though they all seemed to run away from the job after the Referendum result.

 

[Atilla]

Theresa May called this election for a personal indorsment for her to carry out Brexit Negotiations. She has lost her majority and now needs to be propped up by a dubious minor party with it's own agenda to the rest of the UK.

1. Can she keep her Job?
1. Should she be negotiating brexit?

1. Clearly she can't and work is already underway to replace her. Hi probability of new elections with new leader in place as and when. She can't because she is exclusive and far too guarded control freak. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that.


2. Brexit this is far more important than leadership imo as impact is UK and several decades wide. Not about parties; Tory, Labour, LibDem or forever moaning Eurosceptic & UKIP niche players seeking fame and glory.


Considerations:

A. Young population woken up
B. Labour party revitilised assuming militant core don't become emboldened with fairy god mother wish list
C. Hard Brexit not in national interest. We've seen there are more important issues for people such as our public services, jobs and security

My personal primary pov is to postpone Article 50 upon acceptance by EU and initiate new proposal for some reform of the union. See that through then re-evaluate UK position.

Alternatively, adopt a softer exit maintaining access to Free Market. ie adopt one of the other types of membership if British people still insist on Brexit.


Most of all delighted Parliament has voice and decent opposition with some balance of powers.

 

[Atilla]

1. No. There will be a leadership challenge as soon as she stumbles into another issue that divides her MP's. Months, if not weeks.

2. Probably not, but we're stuck with her or whoever the Conservatives put up. It should be a Brexiteer, though they all seemed to run away from the job after the Referendum result.

Brexit is the root cause of all this fiasco.

If you want Brexit work it through civil service, proper white paper on what and how it would look and then put the bill through Parliament & HoLs.

If we go through with this referendum of BS lies and deceits with Red Busses driven round the country people will go nuts.

Politicians say one thing now and another tomorrow.

Did she say or do anything to defend the law of the land? Fecking snake in the grass kept her mouth shut because it suited her votes and power.

Wake up guys, she's just another snake in the grass. Defend Britain my ****, she's only interested in her votes and power calling an election 11 days prior to Brexit negotiations. Put party and self before national interest. Don't you see this?

The more I think of it the more I loathe this stupid moo moo.

 

[mike.]

If we go through with this referendum of BS lies and deceits with Red Busses driven round the country people will go nuts.

All due respect....But you do talk some b0ll0cks sometimes...

Can you give reference to some of the lies that you were told during the referendum ? Not ones like "the economy will crash" and "the sky will fall in" from the remain camp but from the leave side ?

ill start you off, with one that you thought was a lie....." were giving the whole 350 million eu membership fee to the NHS" :clap: on the brexit bus...

When what was actually written on the bus said..."We send the EU 350 million per week...Lets fund the NHS instead "

Now, I can see where you got confused, but its not the same thing.....I got it straight away as did many others, do you now see the difference :clap:

 

[Atilla]

All due respect....But you do talk some b0ll0cks sometimes...

Can you give reference to some of the lies that you were told during the referendum ? Not ones like "the economy will crash" and "the sky will fall in" from the remain camp but from the leave side ?

ill start you off, with one that you thought was a lie....." were giving the whole 350 million eu membership fee to the NHS" :clap: on the brexit bus...

When what was actually written on the bus said..."We send the EU 350 million per week...Lets fund the NHS instead "

Now, I can see where you got confused, but its not the same thing.....I got it straight away as did many others, do you now see the difference :clap:

Yes but that 350m wasn't marked to go to the NHS as per inference.

It goes to corporation and inheritance tax cuts and 500m grammer school funding.

Nor was it marked to compensate for loss of regional funding, university R&D funding, as TM was tight lipped about it all.


We've had this before, Brexit campaigners moan a lot about what we are paying but have mentioned nothing about the costs about replacing equivalent departments to take over or loss of benefits we receive from the union.

We were told we can import goods cheaper from elsewhere. How's that working out for the people.

We were told we'd have more jobs. Well jobs are moving out of London and elsewhere like the midlands and marked for departure from the South re: R&D and through loss of European Medicine Agency.

Wages aren't going up either. Only talk of raising min wage to £10 where there is Tory opposition.


Once again, money we send to EU is in proportion to our GDP along with rest of union. At a future rate if France gets bigger than us then they'll pay more and we'll pay less. Seems fair to me. Germany pays more obviously.


I would like the Brexiters to account for, show us where the bilateral agreements with other countries are?

Here is another fib.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...de-deal-eu-angela-merkel-brexit-a7696376.html

That's coming after the mad dash by TM to hold his hand. Special relationship and all that.

US, China and India have all been spoken to. Other than few diplomatic words about working together to increase trade there is zip.

On the other hand trade deals and new silk rail roads titled the project of the century are planned between EU and China including Russia.


Honest matey. Not BSing you.

 

[Splitlink]

The UK, now, has a problem with Brexit because I cannot see talks starting on June 19th. EU seriously wants to start talking Brexit now, having waited twelve months since the referendum. Talks can be postponed , if necessary, but exit is a strict date, ie.two years after art. 50 has been signed. It will take all the 27 other members to alter that. You can figure out how easy that will be.

As I see it, from this side of the channel, UDP are going to be difficult to pact with. If she fails, Jeremy will not be able to get all the other parties together to form a majority and there will have to be fresh elections. Spain which , in the seats respect, has a very similar system to the UK, has had three elections in a year and, still, PP (conservatives) are in a minority and govern with a coalition a centre right, Citizens Party.

 

[Atilla]

The UK, now, has a problem with Brexit because I cannot see talks starting on June 19th. EU seriously wants to start talking Brexit now, having waited twelve months since the referendum. Talks can be postponed , if necessary, but exit is a strict date, ie.two years after art. 50 has been signed. It will take all the 27 other members to alter that. You can figure out how easy that will be.

As I see it, from this side of the channel, UDP are going to be difficult to pact with. If she fails, Jeremy will not be able to get all the other parties together to form a majority and there will have to be fresh elections. Spain which , in the seats respect, has a very similar system to the UK, has had three elections in a year and, still, PP (conservatives) are in a minority and govern with a coalition a centre right, Citizens Party.

Agreed Splitlink, Tories have no worse enemy then them selves. Brexit is tearing them apart. I fear the Eurosceptics at this rate will tear the party apart if not dealt with. Not the first time and I'm sure it will not be the last.

As for postponing article 50 no bother imo. EU will as they want us to remain. I see no benefit (unlike TM) forcing the issue.

This is an ideal win/win opportunity for both sides to hold union together and work towards improving it. Each side will come out better and stronger. Along with Macron and German elections out the way in Autumn it'll be brilliant with economies coming out of long L curve recovery.

Young people taking an interest in politics too. Can see fantastic developments for the union and our democracy having gone through these pains.

:clap::clap:

 

[Jason101]

All due respect....But you do talk some b0ll0cks sometimes...

Can you give reference to some of the lies that you were told during the referendum ? Not ones like "the economy will crash" and "the sky will fall in" from the remain camp but from the leave side ?

ill start you off, with one that you thought was a lie....." were giving the whole 350 million eu membership fee to the NHS" :clap: on the brexit bus...

When what was actually written on the bus said..."We send the EU 350 million per week...Lets fund the NHS instead "

Now, I can see where you got confused, but its not the same thing.....I got it straight away as did many others, do you now see the difference :clap:

I will preference my reply with the insinuation that the right ring press are pretty much the mouth piece for the Tory Party.

1. The term the "sky will not fall in" was coined by May as a response designed to avoid answering difficult questions on the Brexit's negative consequences. Of course the sky will not fall in! Unfortunately she was deliberately answering with a sound bite to avoid answering important questions.

To hear this phrase used against someone who would wish to stay in the EU, shows exactly what is wrong with current English politics and it's reporting.

2. On the 350m written on a bus. I can not believe that you are denying that it was not suggested that the UK would be better off by 350m which could be spent on the NHS?
It seems as though you are portraying insinuations as being outside the boundaries of your interpretations of the definition of a lie.

I would suggest your biases are interrupting your logical thinking or that you are deliberately misrepresenting the facts.

 

[mike.]

I will preference my reply with the insinuation that the right ring press are pretty much the mouth piece for the Tory Party.

1. The term the "sky will not fall in" was coined by May as a response designed to avoid answering difficult questions on the Brexit's negative consequences. Of course the sky will not fall in! Unfortunately she was deliberately answering with a sound bite to avoid answering important questions.

To hear this phrase used against someone who would wish to stay in the EU, shows exactly what is wrong with current English politics and it's reporting.

2. On the 350m written on a bus. I can not believe that you are denying that it was not suggested that the UK would be better off by 350m which could be spent on the NHS?
It seems as though you are portraying insinuations as being outside the boundaries of your interpretations of the definition of a lie.

I would suggest your biases are interrupting your logical thinking or that you are deliberately misrepresenting the facts.

The whole Remain campaign was to set fear into people as to what might happen should we leave the EU, this is where most of the lies came from . George Osborn, cameron, clegg, the great fear-monger's the list is endless.. The majority of People didnt buy it and saw the benefits from leaving and seeing the scaremongering for what it was....

And yes, the bus was to inform people just how much we spend per week on membership fees to the union, and yes it did suggest that some of that money would be better spent on the NHS. I dont see the problem there...

"The sky will fall in" was a term given by tv reporters and the like referring to all the doom and gloom which was supposed to happen pre-brexit. which never did.

Remainer's still haven't accepted the fact that were leaving, keep clinging on to things like Gina Miller, Farron and Corbyn to get a deal where we leave but stay in...That's not what the country voted for..

 

[barjon]

All due respect....But you do talk some b0ll0cks sometimes...

Can you give reference to some of the lies that you were told during the referendum ? Not ones like "the economy will crash" and "the sky will fall in" from the remain camp but from the leave side ?

ill start you off, with one that you thought was a lie....." were giving the whole 350 million eu membership fee to the NHS" :clap: on the brexit bus...

When what was actually written on the bus said..."We send the EU 350 million per week...Lets fund the NHS instead "

Now, I can see where you got confused, but its not the same thing.....I got it straight away as did many others, do you now see the difference :clap:

Come on, Mike, one of the worst things about the referendum was that both sides dealt in yah-boo politics with half truths and worse any many an opinion presented as fact. No-one argued through the pros and cons in anything like an informative, responsible and balanced manner.

Way of the world nowadays I suppose. A sound bite will do, no matter if it's factual or not.

 

[timsk]

Hi mike,
Spot on as usual with your comments.

. . .And yes, the bus was to inform people just how much we spend per week on membership fees to the union, and yes it did suggest that some of that money would be better spent on the NHS. I dont see the problem there. . .

It beggar's belief that remoaners are still carping on about the bloody bus! It was then - and remains now - blindingly obvious that if we leave the EU we would save a shed load of wonga and that the money saved could be put to better use. The NHS is just one example of where it could go: nothing remotely contentious about that in my book.

Remainer's still haven't accepted the fact that were leaving, keep clinging on to things like Gina Miller, Farron and Corbyn to get a deal where we leave but stay in...That's not what the country voted for..

I can think of a reason to cling to Gina Miller - but it sure as hell ain't for her views on Brexit!

Tim.

 

[mike.]

Yes but that 350m wasn't marked to go to the NHS as per inference.

It goes to corporation and inheritance tax cuts and 500m grammer school funding.
There is nothing wrong with cutting corporation tax,
Corporations are at the top of the money chain, it flows down.. And its GRAMMAR, Ill not tell you again...

Nor was it marked to compensate for loss of regional funding, university R&D funding, as TM was tight lipped about it all.


We've had this before, Brexit campaigners moan a lot about what we are paying but have mentioned nothing about the costs about replacing equivalent departments to take over or loss of benefits we receive from the union. As we haven't left yet, what benefit have you actually lost since the referendum ?

We were told we can import goods cheaper from elsewhere. How's that working out for the people. Again, we haven't left yet..

We were told we'd have more jobs. Well jobs are moving out of London and elsewhere like the midlands and marked for departure from the South re: R&D and through loss of European Medicine Agency. Unemployment at a all time low and some, Its good some jobs moving to the midlands, theres a whole country outside of london dont ya know...

Wages aren't going up either. Only talk of raising min wage to £10 where there is Tory opposition.

I cant complain, ive had a rise every year

Once again, money we send to EU is in proportion to our GDP along with rest of union. At a future rate if France gets bigger than us then they'll pay more and we'll pay less. Seems fair to me. Germany pays more obviously.
Believe me, its better not to pay anything, Govern ourselves and borders

I would like the Brexiters to account for, show us where the bilateral agreements with other countries are? EU wont let us, little scamps that they are..



US, China and India have all been spoken to. Other than few diplomatic words about working together to increase trade there is zip. Give it time..Soooo impatient.

On the other hand trade deals and new silk rail roads titled the project of the century are planned between EU and China including Russia.


Honest matey. Not BSing you.

 

[Signalcalc]

And still no-one is talking about the real and basic reason why we voted for Brexit - to end free movement of people.

Hardly mentioned during the election campaign and seems to be even less so now.

That is the one fundamental reason why so many voted Brexit.

 

[mike.]

Come on, Mike, one of the worst things about the referendum was that both sides dealt in yah-boo politics with half truths and worse any many an opinion presented as fact. No-one argued through the pros and cons in anything like an informative, responsible and balanced manner.

Way of the world nowadays I suppose. A sound bite will do, no matter if it's factual or not.

I think it depended what side you were on Jon as to what you believed, You tend to brush away facts and figures if they didnt support your cause..

 

[timsk]

And still no-one is talking about the real and basic reason why we voted for Brexit - to end free movement of people.

Hardly mentioned during the election campaign and seems to be even less so now.

That is the one fundamental reason why so many voted Brexit.

Hi Signalcalc,
I think you're right and the reason for it is that, sadly and to their great shame, the remoaners have equated free movement of people and migration with racism, xenophobia and hate. Anyone who dares venture down this path is hacked to shreds and demonized. This is a terrible shame, not least because very few people on the leave side (that I'm aware of anyway) dispute for one minute the immense value - both culturally and economically - that people of all colours, faiths and political beliefs from around the globe have contributed to the U.K. That is not in doubt and I, like all leave supporters that I know, welcome them. However, what is also not in doubt is that letting in numbers that equate to a city the size of Birmingham every five years is simply unsustainable. The country isn't large enough and there aren't the necessary resources and infrastructure to support them. So, yes, please let's continue to welcome them, but the numbers must be controlled to a sustainable level. This isn't being racist or xenophobic - it's just plain common sense.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

The whole Remain campaign was to set fear into people as to what might happen should we leave the EU, this is where most of the lies came from . George Osborn, cameron, clegg, the great fear-monger's the list is endless.. The majority of People didnt buy it and saw the benefits from leaving and seeing the scaremongering for what it was....

And yes, the bus was to inform people just how much we spend per week on membership fees to the union, and yes it did suggest that some of that money would be better spent on the NHS. I dont see the problem there...

"The sky will fall in" was a term given by tv reporters and the like referring to all the doom and gloom which was supposed to happen pre-brexit. which never did.

Remainer's still haven't accepted the fact that were leaving, keep clinging on to things like Gina Miller, Farron and Corbyn to get a deal where we leave but stay in...That's not what the country voted for..

Technically they were not lies but models with unduely pessimistic forecasts - I agree, presented with political bias.

I do not believe BoE acted to reduce interest rates to scare people after the result. There was genuine fear and concern in the markets.

"I fear" these were/are becoming reality with City, Motor and R&D/Medicine sector preparing to relocate.

So not fair comparison, especially in light of global economy recovery; US, EU and Asian markets. In the absence of Brexit UK may have been in a different place to now. ie. Interest rates and pound higher along with GDP I'd imagine.