Brexit and the Consequences

[dbphoenix]

As long as people are different in their beliefs to each other then there will be conflict, they try to tolerate each other until it boils over , for example opposing football teams, but religion is the main culprit, it serves no purpose...I was taken to church at an early age , I managed to make my own mind up when I was about 9 or 10 that it is all fictional, yet still see myself as a good honest person without religion.

There needn't be conflict unless differing groups are forced to live together. Traditionally those who have different beliefs, values, etc than the group split and form their own society, e.g., the Puritans and the Mormons. Today too many people prefer to browbeat others into adopting a certain set of beliefs. Plenty of examples of this in the daily paper.

The US made a big mistake in not allowing the South to secede.

 

[mike.]

Here in the U.K. I believe I'm right in saying that the church is in decline, though Scotland and Ireland are still very religious areas, the main devide in Northern Ireland is between catholic and Protestant, though relations are improving they will never live in harmony. The resentment is bred into them at a very early age.

 

[dbphoenix]

Here in the U.K. I believe I'm right in saying that the church is in decline, though Scotland and Ireland are still very religious areas, the main devide in Northern Ireland is between catholic and Protestant, though relations are improving they will never live in harmony. The resentment is bred into them at a very early age.

Ditto the US with regard particularly to blacks and "Mexicans" (or "meskins"). As for religion, it's Evangelicals against everybody ("anti-[fill-in-the-blank]"). And that's bred from birth as well, which is why they want religion back in the schools. And why they're anti-science (surprise, surprise).

 

[Splitlink]

As long as you scrub Christmas, Easter, etc, church Christenings, marriages and deaths plus all other church ceremonies then you are all justified. Do otherwise and you are hypocrites.

 

[Splitlink]

As long as people are different in their beliefs to each other then there will be conflict, they try to tolerate each other until it boils over , for example opposing football teams, but religion is the main culprit, it serves no purpose...I was taken to church at an early age , I managed to make my own mind up when I was about 9 or 10 that it is all fictional, yet still see myself as a good honest person without religion.

Didn't Stalin say something like, "Give me a child for seven years and I have him for life"?

You are a no-hoper, Mike, You are going to be be good for the rest of your life,like it, or not.

 

[counter_violent]

Now, what was it I was saying about tribalism!

 

[mike.]

You are a no-hoper, Mike, .

In what sense split ? Elaborate.

 

[Splitlink]

In what sense split ? Elaborate.

That the first nine years of your life involved going to church. Therefore, you will be good for the rest of your life. The point being that religion has done its job.

I was the same. Evacuated to a Hampshire village, during the war, the principles of that religion are rooted. I am not going to change. I'm a terrible Christian, as far as going to church is concerned, but I, still, believe. Frankly, I don't think that it has done me too much harm.

I should say that the lack of religion, in the West, is the cause of most of our problems.

What I would ask is for everyone to keep their opinions to themselves, as to whether religion is crap, or not. I believe that most of us are intelligent people, able to form their own opinions without others' offensive remarks being forced down their necks, simply because we are discussing Brexit .

 

[sminicooper]

Didn't Stalin say something like, "Give me a child for seven years and I have him for life"?

You are a no-hoper, Mike, You are going to be be good for the rest of your life,like it, or not.

It was the Roman Catholic Jesuits.

 

[mike.]

Ok point taken. Apologies for taking the thread off topic, but I am quite proud even at that early age to base my beliefs on what can be proven opposed to hearsay. I'll end it at that. We could maybe start a new thread if there is some new evidence.

 

[sminicooper]

That the first nine years of your life involved going to church. Therefore, you will be good for the rest of your life. The point being that religion has done its job.

I was the same. Evacuated to a Hampshire village, during the war, the principles of that religion are rooted. I am not going to change. I'm a terrible Christian, as far as going to church is concerned, but I, still, believe. Frankly, I don't think that it has done me too much harm.

I should say that the lack of religion, in the West, is the cause of most of our problems.

What I would ask is for everyone to keep their opinions to themselves, as to whether religion is crap, or not. I believe that most of us are intelligent people, able to form their own opinions without others' offensive remarks being forced down their necks, simply because we are discussing Brexit .

Good advice Split. Years ago, before the advent of women at formal dinners in HM forces there was a strict rule designed to avoid serious "disagreements" between men who had consumed a lot of post-prandial drink: no discussion of (1) religion (2) politics (3) other men's women. It worked well.

(1) Would probably also work well for stone cold sober T2W members

 

[Splitlink]

It was the Roman Catholic Jesuits.

You see? I don't know everything!

 

[dbphoenix]

That the first nine years of your life involved going to church. Therefore, you will be good for the rest of your life. The point being that religion has done its job.

You may want to look at how many felons had a religious upbringing.

Stalin was not a psychologist.

I should say that the lack of religion, in the West, is the cause of most of our problems.

The problem is not a lack of religion but the lack of a moral compass, which need have nothing to do with religion. Or at least the lack of agreement on what the moral compass should be. Which is where the construction of the society comes in, and the social contract, all of which is pertinent to discussions of Brexit, and union or non-union.

 

[mike.]

As long as you scrub Christmas, Easter, etc, church Christenings, marriages and deaths plus all other church ceremonies then you are all justified. Do otherwise and you are hypocrites.

Would that be the same hypocrisy as picking and choosing what science you believe and dismiss split ? :whistling

 

[Inquisitor]

Totally agree there Atilla , first it needs to start in the primary schools and then the secondary schools to teach that all religion is just unproven fairytale, Ricky gervais hits the mark pretty well in this clip. Once all religion is phased out then you will see world peace......
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZOwNK6n9U

Why would you see World peace if religion is phased out? This shows a lack of historical understanding. More people were killed under the banner of Chinese Communism than all wars in history added together. The slaughter of people under Stalin and Hitler was not caused by their religious idealism.

It is also completely false that religion was used as a means to control people as history shows consistently that it doesn't work.

It is arguable that the Romans were the most successful at controlling others and yet they were happy to allow those they conquered to continue to practice their religious beliefs and did not force their brand of God on others. It was only when trouble was caused such as the Jewish rebellion in AD 70 that they would then destroy the architecture of the religious rebels.

The issue is humans seeking power which they will use any banner they can to (sometimes religious but often not) to further their aims.

Getting rid of religion will just switch it to some other belief system but it will never solve the problem and (sadly) ever bring peace all IMHO.

 

[dbphoenix]

Why would you see World peace if religion is phased out? This shows a lack of historical understanding. More people were killed under the banner of Chinese Communism than all wars in history added together. The slaughter of people under Stalin and Hitler was not caused by their religious idealism.

It is also completely false that religion was used as a means to control people as history shows consistently that it doesn't work.

It is arguable that the Romans were the most successful at controlling others and yet they were happy to allow those they conquered to continue to practice their religious beliefs and did not force their brand of God on others. It was only when trouble was caused such as the Jewish rebellion in AD 70 that they would then destroy the architecture of the religious rebels.

The issue is humans seeking power which they will use any banner they can to (sometimes religious but often not) to further their aims.

Getting rid of religion will just switch it to some other belief system but it will never solve the problem and (sadly) ever bring peace all IMHO.

With regard to people being killed, one should not dismiss the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, for starters. It adds up. Depends, of course, on how one defines "religion". The Third Reich was a religion for all practical purposes. As for controlling people, that depends on timeframe. The Catholic Church has done a pretty good job of controlling people for centuries. As has Judaism. As for Islam . . .

Yes, power is the central issue, but the route to power has too often been through religion, whether Olympus. Valhalla, or Heaven. Governing according to the precepts of myth is not only powerful but easy given the simplicity of appealing to fear and superstition. This can be seen right now in the US and throughout most of the West and the East. Once religion -- which is essentially obeisance to authority in the hope of redemption -- is removed from the picture, citizens can begin building a society based on practical reality.

 

[petetrades]

Bravo to the Brits for exiting the EU in light of Merkel et. all's destructive policies.

 

[petetrades]

 

[petetrades]

 

[petetrades]

Farage hopefully will become prime minister ASAP