Brexit and the Consequences

[counter_violent]

Perhaps it's time to re-address what England has to offer that others don't. What is its competitive position?

It's the wrong question.

The position is that the EU is losing market share of world GDP and if we were to stay in the EU, then we would have no chance of maintaining let alone increasing our share.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-has-shrunk-percentage-world-economy/

 

[Signalcalc]

Perhaps it's time to re-address what England has to offer that others don't. What is its competitive position?

Pork scratchings, fish and chips, bacon and eggs, cheddar cheese and Cornish pasties.

I think I'm right to believe that Cornish pasties are the only thing that would provide us with a competitive advantage as a result of EU legislation out of that lot.

 

[dbphoenix]

It's the wrong question.

The position is that the EU is losing market share of world GDP and if we were to stay in the EU, then we would have no chance of maintaining let alone increasing our share.

And what are your chances of increasing your market share otherwise?

 

[dbphoenix]

Blimmey dbp - that's a whole thread right there, lol! Top of my list is beer and a half decent rugby team.

But can you support an economy with beer and rugby? I know about jet engines, but what else? This seems to me to be very pertinent to the thread.

 

[Atilla]

But can you support an economy with beer and rugby? I know about jet engines, but what else? This seems to me to be very pertinent to the thread.

UK is essentially a service economy; finance and high end R&D industries being key. 4th biggest arms manufacturer.

Depend on imports for food and energy.

Very little manufacturing left.


About to see the decimisation of the Finance industry in some pie in the sky hope she'll be able to suddenly start exporting to the rest of the World stuff we don't make anymore.

Has a they need us more than we need them mentality with some intangible USPs which are yet to be announced.

You tax us we tax you!

Let's play WTO rules.

Ok Bob! Let's do this.

 

[Atilla]

Vince Cable was just on TV saying he stopped the take over of Astrazeneca which Osborn and Cameron thought should be allowed as simply part of free market behaviour.

He said there were many national interest questions to answer, such as; employment, R&D and what Pfizer had plans to do with it.


Here we go again with Kraft and rightly he points out since the pound has lost 20% and likely to lose even more value, foreign companies eyeing British ones such as ULVR for takeover with no indication of what they propose to do with it.

ULVR is Anglo Dutch high divi paying stock with a massive list of household brand names.

If it ever took place a great deal of R&D and science work that takes place here in the UK will go to the US and we will ultimately end up losing another British treasure.

Effectively, the fall in the pound is allowing foreign firms to asset strip the UK and Government really must step in and scrutinise these takeovers.


Bloody minded fecking idiots if they don't and instead they trump up shareholder, freemarket or capitalism as some kind of ideals to maintain inspite of these moves. Watch the key decision makers as I'm sure their palms will be greased over a deal like this.

 

[counter_violent]

Meanwhile back in the real world.

When France, Italy, Netherlands, Germany, (fing's) decide to leave the sinking ship. Btw, it only needs One of them, then it will make Brexit look like a sideshow. :clap:

 

[Mr. Charts]

Vince Cable was just on TV saying he stopped the take over of Astrazeneca which Osborn and Cameron thought should be allowed as simply part of free market behaviour.

He said there were many national interest questions to answer, such as; employment, R&D and what Pfizer had plans to do with it.


Here we go again with Kraft and rightly he points out since the pound has lost 20% and likely to lose even more value, foreign companies eyeing British ones such as ULVR for takeover with no indication of what they propose to do with it.

ULVR is Anglo Dutch high divi paying stock with a massive list of household brand names.

If it ever took place a great deal of R&D and science work that takes place here in the UK will go to the US and we will ultimately end up losing another British treasure.

Effectively, the fall in the pound is allowing foreign firms to asset strip the UK and Government really must step in and scrutinise these takeovers.


Bloody minded fecking idiots if they don't and instead they trump up shareholder, freemarket or capitalism as some kind of ideals to maintain inspite of these moves. Watch the key decision makers as I'm sure their palms will be greased over a deal like this.

There's really no need to use foul language, Atilla. Please.
We've seen and heard enough of that in the last many months.

 

[Atilla]

Meanwhile back in the real world.

When France, Italy, Netherlands, Germany, (fing's) decide to leave the sinking ship. Btw, it only needs One of them, then it will make Brexit look like a sideshow. :clap:

Problem with that approach is not about UK's USPs but more about other nations.

Germany, France have big manufacturing power houses and France is also up there with R&D and arms sales.

UK problem has always been its total inability to capitalise on inventions or its total inability to translate top end military R&D to consumer retail items. Whether Euro falls apart or not France and Germany will do well. Holland always nestled nicely between them likewise.


This is your great strategy to conquer trade with the rest of the World, hoping EU will implode.

Words fail me... Get down on your knees and pray see if that helps.

 

[counter_violent]

Problem with that approach is not about UK's USPs but more about other nations.

Germany, France have big manufacturing power houses and France is also up there with R&D and arms sales.

UK problem has always been its total inability to capitalise on inventions or its total inability to translate top end military R&D to consumer retail items. Whether Euro falls apart or not France and Germany will do well. Holland always nestled nicely between them likewise.


This is your great strategy to conquer trade with the rest of the World, hoping EU will implode.

Words fail me... Get down on your knees and pray see if that helps.

Well, ya don't see me getting hot under the collar about any of it.
UK will be fine, but I'm not at all sure about the rest of them !

 

[Splitlink]

Well, ya don't see me getting hot under the collar about any of it.
UK will be fine, but I'm not at all sure about the rest of them !

UK will be fine although it may take a few decades and we may not be around to see it. The trouble with some Brexiters, though, is that they feel uncomfortable being on their own. They want the whole project to break up. That is a pity, because they are not paying attention to their own, very real, problems.

I'm willing to bet (if I was a betting man, which I'm not. I trade ) that most of the Brexiters on here have no job to lose and that they do not think that their family is likely to suffer as a consequence of their actions.

Boris, Nigel, Blair and all those, are on top of the heap and they have their own calendar. It does not not include the man in the street. 4,000 lose their jobs? They'll be alright. Won't they?

 

[Atilla]

Trudeau Stresses Fair Wages, Tax Compliance in Warning to Europe

I think he makes a very valid point.

What is a very important note to take from all this is, although he is calling on the EU to distribute wealth on a more equitable way to her workers, in contrast the skewed distribute of wealth in the UK and US is even more striking as per previous posted charts.

“It’s time to pay a living wage, to pay your taxes, and give your workers the benefits –- and peace of mind –-- that come with stable, full-time contracts,” Trudeau said, according to prepared remarks. “I fully appreciate the irony of preaching about the struggles of the middle class to a sea of tuxedos and ball gowns, while wearing a bow-tie myself. But this discussion needs to happen.”

The pace of globalization and technological change are driving anxiety, in particular among those fearful their children will be worse off than they were, he said. That belief is fed by “record profits on the back of workers” who toil without full-time pay or benefits. “We’re watching that anxiety transform into anger on an almost daily basis.”


UK and US should heed his words imho.


Theresa May has spoken similar words but sadly her actions or that of the Conservative government in no way match those words.

 

[tar]

Hence UK is going on with the brexit plan soon , i am back to bearish cable , will be looking for cable at the teens during the summer .


IMHO

 

[Splitlink]

Hence UK is going on with the brexit plan soon , i am back to bearish cable , will be looking for cable at the teens during the summer .


IMHO

Shame on you, Sir! You are nothing more than an opportunist, like me. I remember George Soros being called that in 1992, when John Major and Lawson stood on the steps ans said that they would defend the pound to the last ounce of gold.

I was not a trader, then. I remember it well. I was laying on the bed with a bad back. You'd be surprised at how quickly I got cured! I had my money in a currency fund so it was easy for me. I got up, rang them up and changed it all to DMs.

The next day I felt very sorry for the Brits who were waking up to a devalued pound. I'm afraid that Brexit is, really, what it's all about, today. Every man for himself. Life should not be like that but it is a human trait.

 

[dbphoenix]

Trudeau Stresses Fair Wages, Tax Compliance in Warning to Europe

I think he makes a very valid point.

What is a very important note to take from all this is, although he is calling on the EU to distribute wealth on a more equitable way to her workers, in contrast the skewed distribute of wealth in the UK and US is even more striking as per previous posted charts.

“It’s time to pay a living wage, to pay your taxes, and give your workers the benefits –- and peace of mind –-- that come with stable, full-time contracts,” Trudeau said, according to prepared remarks. “I fully appreciate the irony of preaching about the struggles of the middle class to a sea of tuxedos and ball gowns, while wearing a bow-tie myself. But this discussion needs to happen.”

The pace of globalization and technological change are driving anxiety, in particular among those fearful their children will be worse off than they were, he said. That belief is fed by “record profits on the back of workers” who toil without full-time pay or benefits. “We’re watching that anxiety transform into anger on an almost daily basis.”


UK and US should heed his words imho.


Theresa May has spoken similar words but sadly her actions or that of the Conservative government in no way match those words.

This thread and the Trump thread are beginning to dovetail.

It should be clear to anyone who pays attention that a great many of the wealthy think that a return to feudalism would be just dandy. And a vast number of those who would participate in such a setup as vassals or peasants don't realize that they have been being maneuvered into such a position for several decades. Wages are low, benefits reduced or eliminated, rights suppressed. Some of the .01 are smart enough to realize that if this continues they risk revolution. But only some.

It's been a hundred years since the last important revolution, and a little over two hundred since the two before that (American and French). It is clear from the current situation in America, in Western Europe, and in the ME that a great many people have had enough. World leaders think they can control the situation via "austerity" and sabre rattling. And they have. For almost ten years. But even the slowest have begun to realize that they've been screwed, again, and the possibilities at this point should be of great concern, even to the .01.

 

[Splitlink]

This thread and the Trump thread are beginning to dovetail.

It should be clear to anyone who pays attention that a great many of the wealthy think that a return to feudalism would be just dandy. And a vast number of those who would participate in such a setup as vassals or peasants don't realize that they have been being maneuvered into such a position for several decades. Wages are low, benefits reduced or eliminated, rights suppressed. Some of the .01 are smart enough to realize that if this continues they risk revolution. But only some.

It's been a hundred years since the last important revolution, and a little over two hundred since the two before that (American and French). It is clear from the current situation in America, in Western Europe, and in the ME that a great many people have had enough. World leaders think they can control the situation via "austerity" and sabre rattling. And they have. For almost ten years. But even the slowest have begun to realize that they've been screwed, again, and the possibilities at this point should be of great concern, even to the .01.

An interesting point but I think that the days of that kind of revolution are over. Feudalism is out, today. The UK and Spain have monarchies but they are, very much, figureheads and so they should be.

IMO, it can only be done by

1) with elections.

2) Revolution, in which the military is involved

3) Invasion by a foreign power.

the US, I'm sorry to say, has blown it this time around. It looks as if UK has, too. Now those nations have to take the consequences until the next elections and the electorate, who are not so ignorant and illiterate as they were hundreds of years ago, will have to get it right next time, or they will have another 4-5 years of the same.

 

[Splitlink]

This thread and the Trump thread are beginning to dovetail.

It should be clear to anyone who pays attention that a great many of the wealthy think that a return to feudalism would be just dandy. And a vast number of those who would participate in such a setup as vassals or peasants don't realize that they have been being maneuvered into such a position for several decades. Wages are low, benefits reduced or eliminated, rights suppressed. Some of the .01 are smart enough to realize that if this continues they risk revolution. But only some.

It's been a hundred years since the last important revolution, and a little over two hundred since the two before that (American and French). It is clear from the current situation in America, in Western Europe, and in the ME that a great many people have had enough. World leaders think they can control the situation via "austerity" and sabre rattling. And they have. For almost ten years. But even the slowest have begun to realize that they've been screwed, again, and the possibilities at this point should be of great concern, even to the .01.

An interesting point but I think that the days of that kind of revolution are over. Feudalism is out, today. The UK and Spain have monarchies but they are, very much, figureheads and so they should be.

IMO, it can only be done by

1) with elections.

2) Revolution, in which the military is involved

3) Invasion by a foreign power.

the US, I'm sorry to say, has blown it this time around. It looks as if UK has, too. Now those nations have to take the consequences until the next elections and the electorate, who are not so ignorant and illiterate as they were hundreds of years ago, will have to get it right next time, or they will have another 4-5 years of the same.

 

[dbphoenix]

An interesting point but I think that the days of that kind of revolution are over. Feudalism is out, today. The UK and Spain have monarchies but they are, very much, figureheads and so they should be.

IMO, it can only be done by

1) with elections.

2) Revolution, in which the military is involved

3) Invasion by a foreign power.

the US, I'm sorry to say, has blown it this time around. It looks as if UK has, too. Now those nations have to take the consequences until the next elections and the electorate, who are not so ignorant and illiterate as they were hundreds of years ago, will have to get it right next time, or they will have another 4-5 years of the same.

Feudalism is with us right now, and has been for years, which explains in large part the alleged desire for "self-determination" among the lower classes. The lower classes are tied to the upper in the same way vassals were. The only difference is the label.

The monarchies are irrelevant. It is the .01 that is in control.

As for ignorance and illiteracy, there's no shortage of that among the rank and file. Look at Trump supporters. Or those who voted for Brexit without even knowing what it was.

 

[Splitlink]

Feudalism is with us right now, and has been for years, which explains in large part the alleged desire for "self-determination" among the lower classes. The lower classes are tied to the upper in the same way vassals were. The only difference is the label.

The monarchies are irrelevant. It is the .01 that is in control.


As for ignorance and illiteracy, there's no shortage of that among the rank and file. Look at Trump supporters. Or those who voted for Brexit without even knowing what it was.

Yes, I take that back, you are right. The monarchies are not in charge, It is the very wealthy. It makes me seem like a lefty but I am anything but that.

I'm not so sure that the problem is ignorance. Plain laziness to get out and vote is the trouble. The low %age in the turnout shows that, in the UK and Spain. That is why minorities gain power.

 

[Atilla]

It is interesting to note Canada is very much in synch with the EU whilst the UK with US.

If one looks at the quality of life in these places with what their citizens value it is clear to see who is happy and who is not, at least to me anyhow.

I could be wrong ofcourse. :whistling

Heard on TV 19m are JAMing.

Railways causing misery with NHS beds becoming social care stations for the elderly in temporary transit to where ever their resting place may become.



On another note Boris thinks UK is fighting for her liberty from EU. Someone should tell him it's a voluntary body of membership and if he wants his freedom he simply has to invoke article 50, hopefully not punching or shooting anyone on his way out to his freedom to trade with rest of the World under WTO rules.



Heard parliamentary committee debates on telly. Of the 330K migrants 60% apparently foreign students who do their degree here and then stay to work.

25% are migrant labour of all types including seasonal workers.

15% are relatives of people who already live here. They either come to visit and stay or or just extend their stay etc.

Gentleman said it is anticipated that 100K can be reduced from 330K so number for next year dare it be called target (as they are always missed) may be 230K.

It was admitted that once EU citizens are in the UK, no records are kept of who they are and where they stay. This ploy about sending them back or being part of the negotiation (reciprocal or not) is just stupid talk which can not be enforced as there is not workable data to go on.



Effectively, migration is the top agenda on British governments list of priorities.



If the NHS is looking after 1m more elderly people over the age of 75 because they can't be sent home incase they fall and are pending a bed in some nurshing home to be moved off, if A&E' beds are chocker full is no consequence or less of a priority.

Same goes for railways causing misery, it's simply the fault of unions. Lack of investment is not a problem either but trying to determine leaders bonuses and salaries are.

Then there are fishing industry of the North which is way more important than any of the other industries that are likely to suffer in contrast.


Tories ripped the heart out of manufacturing and cut down regional development grants and aid and now they are going to end up ripping the guts out of what motor manufacturing that's left and sell another jewel in crown - the City of London down the shoot so we can control our borders.


I dunno, I'd be trying to attract students to come and study and work here. Usually, it costs about 50K to get a university degree. Not a small fee. Also, to attract young and abled smart bodies.

There are facts and then there is the aging popullation, declining birth rates and rising tax burden.

British response not to build a wall but a little more subtle, take control of our borders. Priority number 1.