Brexit and the Consequences

[counter_violent]

Certainly those who want to see Europe divided will be better off.

I assume you mean Putin and possibly some of the Arab world.

Well, so what, the common theme here is energy. If the west get their act together and move towards ending their reliance on fossil fuels, then Russia and the Middle East become far less relevant.

 

[dbphoenix]

I assume you mean Putin and possibly some of the Arab world.

Well, so what, the common theme here is energy. If the west get their act together and move towards ending their reliance on fossil fuels, then Russia and the Middle east become far less relevant.

And in the meantime . . .

 

[timsk]

And in the meantime . . .

. . . In the meantime dbp, all eyes are on your new President. Brexit is just a side show which may end up being of little consequence - depending how the next four years pan out (for the world).

I know this is the wrong thread but, as I'm writing, I'll tender my apologies to all Democrats and Clinton supporters to whom I made a point of saying that Hillary could not be trusted - based on her past behaviour. At that time (pre- election), I hadn't factored into the equation that Trump's pre-election bluster would spill over into his presidency and manifest itself as 'alternative facts'. Call me old fashioned, but 'lies' and 'propaganda' are so much more succinct, accurate and descriptive. With the benefit of hindsight, a vote for Clinton would have been infinitely preferable. Apologies to one and all!

To return to Brexit - I see no reason why all the member states can't agree on - and have common policies on - issues about which they all agree. Examples include the environment and the military. We don't need the bureaucratic monster that is the EU for that to happen. So, we can come together as a group as and when it suits and, in the meantime, each country gets on with its own affairs, laws, administration and doing what each does best.
Tim.

 

[dbphoenix]

The 28 member nations were complicit in the creation of the bureaucratic monster. It therefore behooves them to fix it, not simply abandon the whole thing.

Eyes should be on the East, not the West. Ask Poland.

 

[counter_violent]

. . . In the meantime dbp, all eyes are on your new President. Brexit is just a side show which may end up being of little consequence - depending how the next four years pan out (for the world).

I know this is the wrong thread but, as I'm writing, I'll tender my apologies to all Democrats and Clinton supporters to whom I made a point of saying that Hillary could not be trusted - based on her past behaviour. At that time (pre- election), I hadn't factored into the equation that Trump's pre-election bluster would spill over into his presidency and manifest itself as 'alternative facts'. Call me old fashioned, but 'lies' and 'propaganda' are so much more succinct, accurate and descriptive. With the benefit of hindsight, a vote for Clinton would have been infinitely preferable. Apologies to one and all!

To return to Brexit - I see no reason why all the member states can't agree on - and have common policies on - issues about which they all agree. Examples include the environment and the military. We don't need the bureaucratic monster that is the EU for that to happen. So, we can come together as a group as and when it suits and, in the meantime, each country gets on with its own affairs, laws, administration and doing what each does best.
Tim.

Trump is just the guy that all the malcontents gravitated towards.

As we have seen with Russia, they went through quite a few leaders in their transitional struggle, moving away from communism to, whatever it is they have in place now.

The point is, the West is just at the start of a similar transition process. Nobody knows where it will all end up, but the people are very clear about what it is they don't want, and that most certainly includes people like Hillary !

 

[dbphoenix]

The point is, the West is just at the start of a similar transition process. Nobody knows where it will all end up, but the people are very clear about what it is they don't want, and that most certainly includes people like Hillary !

Don't forget that more people voted for Hillary than Trump.

 

[timsk]

The 28 member nations were complicit in the creation of the bureaucratic monster. It therefore behooves them to fix it, not simply abandon the whole thing.

Eyes should be on the East, not the West. Ask Poland.

Not true I'm afraid dbp.
The political elite of 28 member nations were complicit in the creation of the bureaucratic monster - not the people they were supposed to represent. Regarding them fixing it - as c_v has pointed out, Brussels doesn't think there's anything that needs fixing. At least, they didn't until last June. Hopefully, Brexit will be the wake up call they so desperately need and the remaining countries can sort their poop out. If they don't then, again as c_v says, I think the break up of the union is inevitable. And, as I said in my previous post, by leaving, the U.K. doesn't have to renounce all the laws, treaties and whatnot that we signed up to as EU member's. I imagine the vast majority of them will remain in tact long after we take back control of the tiller, plough our own furrow etc.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

Don't forget that more people voted for Hillary than Trump.

Perhaps the system needs fixing then rather than complaining about it. Or just move to Canada.

From what I've read and observed. Trump completely refused to campaign nor even engage with all the flakes in California. A very wise move I'd say.

A battle plan taken straight from "the art of war" (choose your battles wisely) So Hillary can claim all the popular vote she likes, but in reality, the outcome was very different !

 

[Atilla]

Peeps in the EU are better off than peeps in the UK.

All EU needs to do is harmonise fiscal policy to complement the Euro - single currency.

It's because the local politicians and businesses can't be trusted to do the right thing and pay their dues.

So people voting for their politicians over that of the EU will get them back to the same sh1t hole they came from, wars, famine and extreme corruption and power plays.

 

[dbphoenix]

Not true I'm afraid dbp.
The political elite of 28 member nations were complicit in the creation of the bureaucratic monster - not the people they were supposed to represent. Regarding them fixing it - as c_v has pointed out, Brussels doesn't think there's anything that needs fixing. At least, they didn't until last June. Hopefully, Brexit will be the wake up call they so desperately need and the remaining countries can sort their poop out. If they don't then, again as c_v says, I think the break up of the union is inevitable. And, as I said in my previous post, by leaving, the U.K. doesn't have to renounce all the laws, treaties and whatnot that we signed up to as EU member's. I imagine the vast majority of them will remain in tact long after we take back control of the tiller, plough our own furrow etc.
Tim.

The "political elite" created the EU as representatives of the people. If the people have felt that they were misrepresented, they've had 24 years to bring about desired changes. If they haven't, who's responsible?

 

[dbphoenix]

Perhaps the system needs fixing then rather than complaining about it. Or just move to Canada.

One might make the same statement with regard to the EU. Or just move to wherever it is you believe is governed in a manner with which you agree.

 

[counter_violent]

The "political elite" created the EU as representatives of the people. If the people have felt that they were misrepresented, they've had 24 years to bring about desired changes. If they haven't, who's responsible?

This is where the game is rigged.

It is virtually impossible for the people to register their dissatisfaction. Most just go along with it. It is a game of deception and a slow creep towards a position that favours the elites.

How many times have we seen over the years various votes overturned because the people voted for the wrong option. It's laughable, it really is.

The reason Brexit happened and others will follow, is because the game is rigged and everyone knows it. Brexit is a result of 40+ years of frustration with and an inability to influence change in the EU organisation.

 

[timsk]

The "political elite" created the EU as representatives of the people. If the people have felt that they were misrepresented, they've had 24 years to bring about desired changes?

Ah, I'm glad you raised this dbp - as you provided the answer to this conundrum yourself in your earlier post . . .

Don't forget that more people voted for Hillary than Trump.

. . . If they haven't, who's responsible?

The people brought about the changes at the first real opportunity that they were given- i.e. the referendum last June. Prior to that, domestic politics dominated the agenda, not the EU. Politicians were - for the most part - elected based on their manifesto pledges which, with the exception of UKIP - contained bigger issues than the EU.
Tim.

 

[dbphoenix]

The people brought about the changes at the first real opportunity that they were given- i.e. the referendum last June. Prior to that, domestic politics dominated the agenda, not the EU. Politicians were - for the most part - elected based on their manifesto pledges which, with the exception of UKIP - contained bigger issues than the EU.
Tim.

Unless the problems sprang out of nowhere, fully formed, it sounds as though a great many people just weren't paying attention.

 

[dbphoenix]

This is where the game is rigged.

It is virtually impossible for the people to register their dissatisfaction. Most just go along with it. It is a game of deception and a slow creep towards a position that favours the elites.

How many times have we seen over the years various votes overturned because the people voted for the wrong option. It's laughable, it really is.

The reason Brexit happened and others will follow, is because the game is rigged and everyone knows it. Brexit is a result of 40+ years of frustration with and an inability to influence change in the EU organisation.

Sounds like there isn't much opportunity to effect change in Britain, either.

 

[counter_violent]

Sounds like there isn't much opportunity to effect change in Britain, either.

True. The mistake our Liberal elites made was to ask the people their opinion.

Oh boy, did they get a wake up call.

 

[Mr. Charts]

What's the matter with you people? In the UK we get one day of democracy every five years, in the US one every four years.
When the power political elite grant Her Majesty's SUBJECTS an additional day for a referendum so they can have an extra day of democracy, look what the ungrateful ignorant plebs go and do !
That won't happen again this century.

Mind you, look what the Americans have gone and done ! And their decision affects the whole world !

 

[Mr. Charts]

Stop the world.
I want to get off.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Still better than Erdogan or Putin ha ha

 

[counter_violent]

Peeps in the EU are better off than peeps in the UK.

All EU needs to do is harmonise fiscal policy to complement the Euro - single currency.

It's because the local politicians and businesses can't be trusted to do the right thing and pay their dues.

So people voting for their politicians over that of the EU will get them back to the same sh1t hole they came from, wars, famine and extreme corruption and power plays.

Wot on earth are you waffling on about !