JTrader
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Hi MarvinS
As has been mentioned already, people are struggling to understand how WS can offer e.g. a 1-pip EURUSD spread (the same as is probably available at currenex, hotspotfx etc. - i.e. the minimum spread available anywhere) and still make a profit
.
Is the basis of WS offering the main trading hours 1-pip spread and still being profitable/still believing that WS will be profitable - due to the fact that something like 90% of spreadbetters fail and therefore, while WS will not be making a profit through the spreads, will make its profit from the inevitable 90% of traders who fail and lose their pot of cash?
What's the philosophy behind this at WS?
Many thanks
jtrader.
As has been mentioned already, people are struggling to understand how WS can offer e.g. a 1-pip EURUSD spread (the same as is probably available at currenex, hotspotfx etc. - i.e. the minimum spread available anywhere) and still make a profit
.Is the basis of WS offering the main trading hours 1-pip spread and still being profitable/still believing that WS will be profitable - due to the fact that something like 90% of spreadbetters fail and therefore, while WS will not be making a profit through the spreads, will make its profit from the inevitable 90% of traders who fail and lose their pot of cash?
What's the philosophy behind this at WS?
Many thanks
jtrader.
Hi Jtrader,
i can understand with the volatiilty of some of these markets you may wonder how we can possibly make a 1 pip spread in hours. To be honest with difficulty, however we are relying alot on the liquidity of our clients to offset against our core book! It is rather cynical to say 90% on clients loose. Most clients do not actually loose they only lack the discipline and end up churning themselves or over trading. The best client that i speak to trades on average 3 to 4 times a day with WS on 3 markets, FTSE/DAX/WALL st. This particular trader takes on a trade size of no less than £50 per point per trade. This trader is up £50,000 since the begging of May.
Our philosophy is to get as many traders trading off the 1 pip spreads as possible. I hope that is a clear answer!
Regards
MarvinS
i can understand with the volatiilty of some of these markets you may wonder how we can possibly make a 1 pip spread in hours. To be honest with difficulty, however we are relying alot on the liquidity of our clients to offset against our core book! It is rather cynical to say 90% on clients loose. Most clients do not actually loose they only lack the discipline and end up churning themselves or over trading. The best client that i speak to trades on average 3 to 4 times a day with WS on 3 markets, FTSE/DAX/WALL st. This particular trader takes on a trade size of no less than £50 per point per trade. This trader is up £50,000 since the begging of May.
Our philosophy is to get as many traders trading off the 1 pip spreads as possible. I hope that is a clear answer!
Regards
MarvinS
fxmarkets
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I hope he's on phone only dealing if he's only trading 4 times a day as highlighted previously by another WS client , guess that one has a instant price verification button or summink.... whats goin on.... knock him or her to a quid a point... he's taking the mick surely?
hmmm must be frequency of transactions thats an issue for these bookies....
no such thing as over trading is there ? maybe over losing yes..... which may result if clients cant choose to close out when they want....
sounds like double standards to me, if your trading doesnt fit in with the bookies idea of acceptable way to trade ... good heavens perish the thought...
how does that 50 trader know hes dealing on a fair and real price? whats goin on.?
Has he got a special coaxial going up you know what which somehow enables him to connect to the ethos of fair and valid price quotes in some form of non physical sense enabling one to filter out corrupt price quotes.. ... lordy, theres a lucky bugger eh...
hmmm must be frequency of transactions thats an issue for these bookies....
no such thing as over trading is there ? maybe over losing yes..... which may result if clients cant choose to close out when they want....
sounds like double standards to me, if your trading doesnt fit in with the bookies idea of acceptable way to trade ... good heavens perish the thought...
how does that 50 trader know hes dealing on a fair and real price? whats goin on.?
Has he got a special coaxial going up you know what which somehow enables him to connect to the ethos of fair and valid price quotes in some form of non physical sense enabling one to filter out corrupt price quotes.. ... lordy, theres a lucky bugger eh...
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MarvinS said:
Just to let you guy's know. Marvin asked me to call him to see what he could do for me
We had a long chat over price issues and data feeds and they looking to have something
in new in place in a few weeks time. Anyway we have come to an agreement and I'm back
trading with them.
fxmarkets
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hello... again...
Cheers laptop, lets hope Worldspreads give you what they advertise, Instant fills and welcome you, as marvin has stated to come in and nick a few points scalping .
what can you tell us all about the price issues and data feeds that may be helpful for members here lookin in on Trade2win ? what did worldspreads imply about those issues exactly ?
unless Marvin cares to respond regarding this detail regarding price,data and scalping opportunities.....
Marvin, how do clients stand now regarding these points please, especially your invitation with regards to scalping etc... can we have clarity from worldspreads.....pls.
Also any advance regarding 50 note trader on points and holding ,was s/he phone only due to frequency being 4 only transactions per day etc. ? how many transactions does a client need to make in order to satisfy worldspreads that they are eligible or qualify to use the online order route and is that client limited to any specific size limit of order ?
Marvin whats your selection criterior regarding which clients are forced to go onto phone and referrals to dealer procedure how do you measure it etc? is it because they do not do enough transactions the online route ? what do you reccomnend clients who may be in that position to do ?
And a final, still not sure about, you mentioned worldspreads clients nicking free money from worldspreads (whatever that means, hmm what do you mean by it anyhow ? i'll have a bit of that thankyou.... ) because worldspreads price quote wasnt as it should of been or something ,being unreal and unfair , how would a worldspreads client know a worldspreads quote then, was true and fair to deal on ? what should a client of worldspreads be looking for exactly to aid in this decision to obtain fairness and realness of price before they choose to deal ?
Thanks in advance
fx.
laptop1 said:Just to let you guy's know. Marvin asked me to call him to see what he could do for me
We had a long chat over price issues and data feeds and they looking to have something
in new in place in a few weeks time. Anyway we have come to an agreement and I'm back
trading with them.
Cheers laptop, lets hope Worldspreads give you what they advertise, Instant fills and welcome you, as marvin has stated to come in and nick a few points scalping .
what can you tell us all about the price issues and data feeds that may be helpful for members here lookin in on Trade2win ? what did worldspreads imply about those issues exactly ?
unless Marvin cares to respond regarding this detail regarding price,data and scalping opportunities.....
Marvin, how do clients stand now regarding these points please, especially your invitation with regards to scalping etc... can we have clarity from worldspreads.....pls.
Also any advance regarding 50 note trader on points and holding ,was s/he phone only due to frequency being 4 only transactions per day etc. ? how many transactions does a client need to make in order to satisfy worldspreads that they are eligible or qualify to use the online order route and is that client limited to any specific size limit of order ?
Marvin whats your selection criterior regarding which clients are forced to go onto phone and referrals to dealer procedure how do you measure it etc? is it because they do not do enough transactions the online route ? what do you reccomnend clients who may be in that position to do ?
And a final, still not sure about, you mentioned worldspreads clients nicking free money from worldspreads (whatever that means, hmm what do you mean by it anyhow ? i'll have a bit of that thankyou.... ) because worldspreads price quote wasnt as it should of been or something ,being unreal and unfair , how would a worldspreads client know a worldspreads quote then, was true and fair to deal on ? what should a client of worldspreads be looking for exactly to aid in this decision to obtain fairness and realness of price before they choose to deal ?
Thanks in advance
fx.
think if marvin had been upfront from the beginning re clients nicking free money we may have got a lot further. can understand him not wanting to go into it with us.carnt understand how you would know bid or offer if only refreshed every 20 secs as was mentioned earlier?.fxmarkets said:
Only thing that changed my mind was someone and mentioning no names said that we would be larger than a leading competitor begining with a C very soon. I just thought a little more transparency would not harm. Personally i am fed up of the games that are played in this industry and it is now close to the time that money making institutions have to start paying up. Private clients have become trading savy and more sophisticated, i suppose it is now time we stopped trying to patronise traders that are more knowledgeable than the firms themselves....
fxmarkets
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Seek and ye shall find.
1.Marvin I would of thought that the basic platform needs to be sorted out yourside so this nonsense about worldspreads clients are dealing on prices which you deem to be not real and not fair , hmmm I thought the quotes come from yourside anyhow ? I also thought that clients orders may reflect or alter a bookies quote therefore not neccessarily giving an acurate reflection at times of the underlying anyhow ? what i read into that is you must be vetting on a rolling basis and withdrawing varying degrees of service to those clients who know a bit about trading or something and this is where it gets funny cos you want people to come and do trade right? only they cant? huh.. whats going on?
2.secondly referring clients to phone and restricting the size is ,in my view anyway ,is as good as saying banned, push off , we'll select a more down to earth punter thankyou very much, hence my headline a few posts back of "brand new customers only" and by that I mean new as in new to the biz of trading .
3.Marvin if you were trading and doing ok, then you were referred to dealer phone only and knocked back to a quid a point, How would you feel about that ? empathise with the client for a moment, your customers. what have they done wrong, anything? you tell us that some punters up 50K since may only trading 4 times.a day . whats acceptable to worldspreads about that 50 note customers profile verses the clients who are given the special treatment and shut down?
4.also there a still a few outstanding questions on the thread, might be helpful if they are dealt with.
5. Evil Knievel is in town 1.5 mil. in a few weeks, free course going.
6. open a florists. none of this nicking flowers from gardens to sell though.
MarvinS said:
1.Marvin I would of thought that the basic platform needs to be sorted out yourside so this nonsense about worldspreads clients are dealing on prices which you deem to be not real and not fair , hmmm I thought the quotes come from yourside anyhow ? I also thought that clients orders may reflect or alter a bookies quote therefore not neccessarily giving an acurate reflection at times of the underlying anyhow ? what i read into that is you must be vetting on a rolling basis and withdrawing varying degrees of service to those clients who know a bit about trading or something and this is where it gets funny cos you want people to come and do trade right? only they cant? huh.. whats going on?
2.secondly referring clients to phone and restricting the size is ,in my view anyway ,is as good as saying banned, push off , we'll select a more down to earth punter thankyou very much, hence my headline a few posts back of "brand new customers only" and by that I mean new as in new to the biz of trading .
3.Marvin if you were trading and doing ok, then you were referred to dealer phone only and knocked back to a quid a point, How would you feel about that ? empathise with the client for a moment, your customers. what have they done wrong, anything? you tell us that some punters up 50K since may only trading 4 times.a day . whats acceptable to worldspreads about that 50 note customers profile verses the clients who are given the special treatment and shut down?
4.also there a still a few outstanding questions on the thread, might be helpful if they are dealt with.
5. Evil Knievel is in town 1.5 mil. in a few weeks, free course going.
6. open a florists. none of this nicking flowers from gardens to sell though.
JTrader
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I would concentrate on ensuring that the platform is super fast with auto trade confirmation, minimum human dealer involvement, minimum requotes, narrower spreads than your spreadbet competitors. THIS SHOULD BRING IN MANY NEW CLIENTS FROM CMC, FINSPREADS, ETC.
I trade EUR/USD only, therefore my wish for a spreadbet dealer is to have as specialised a forex trading service as possible. I am sure that most traders feel the same with regard to the particular market that they trade......
"JACK OF ALL TRADES = MASTER OF NOTHING!" -
This is very true and can be applied to almost any aspect of life. Therefore for a spreadbet company, it may also be a good idea to NOT try and cover every market that is out there (and doing so to a mediocre level with mediocre spreads etc.), but cover fewer markets, do a good job of making those markets available (tight spreads, fast executions etc.)
Perhaps this is like a restaurant. Did you see that Gordon Ramsay program where he went into failing restaurants and tried to revamp them? The first thing he did on many occassions was reduce the menu from say a 40 item menu, to say a 10 item menu. This enabled them to do produce the 10 dishes to a much higher standard, and this in turn made their lives much easier..........Maybe the same principles might apply to a spreadbet dealer? PERHAPS THIS IS WHAT YOU MEANT BY "BOUTIQUE" AS OPPOSED TO A "SUPERMARKET"?
PERHAPS A SPREADBET DEALERSHIP IS DIFFERENT TO A RESTAURANT IN THAT THE NUMBER OF DISHES ON THE MENU WILL NOT AFFECT THE QUALITY/SPECIALISATION OF THE END PRODUCT DISH OFFERED TO CLIENTS?
But basically, have a faster rouble free platform/auto trade confirmation system, and narrower spreads seem to be the main additions that will attract new clients..............
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fxmarkets said:
As usual, fxmarkets, in his/her rather quirky style, cuts though the spin and bs. Marvin, please take note, especially of paragraph 1.
As an aside, Marvin forgive if I'm totally incorrect, but isn't Worldspreads a white label using Finspreads's platform? If so, how can you possibly upgrade it since it's not your proprietary platform?
FX Marche!
1. The platform does not need changing it is fine, it is pricing that needs speeding up and as i said before we are workign on this now. Most of the pricing issues occur in fast moving markets. No other firm is 100% instant or accurate when the markets are moving fast. Havign said that we also have some issues with pricing when the markets are gap. We are attempting to reduce the amount of dealer refferals, a) it is time consuming and b) it is slower for clients to deal from. Yesterday was our busiest day with over 5000 opening trades, if we had to refer every trade it would be a nightmare. I would say less than 10% of trades are placed on refferal.
2. All other SB companies have the option to refer clients. Remember we are a spread betting company and as much as traders dislike this fact, we do have the right to refer clients that we believe are systems trading and not trading the real market prices. FXsour grapes - we have many traders that have been in the SB scene for ages. We do not knock back winners!
3. I know because i am being referred to dealer quite alot when i trade with IGindex. I don't mind it because i know when i get the price back i have the option to accept that trade. If i trade a price on the FTSE or Dax that is 2 pips from the market i am not too bothered, it doesnt niggle me at all. If you get re-quoted by 5to10 pips then you have a serious problem or you are trading on a price that is seriously in correct.
4. Can you accumulate all the other outstanding questions for me pls.
5. The Evil one is definately back, means Bears are back in town!
6. I did that for valentines this year saved myself £20....
1. The platform does not need changing it is fine, it is pricing that needs speeding up and as i said before we are workign on this now. Most of the pricing issues occur in fast moving markets. No other firm is 100% instant or accurate when the markets are moving fast. Havign said that we also have some issues with pricing when the markets are gap. We are attempting to reduce the amount of dealer refferals, a) it is time consuming and b) it is slower for clients to deal from. Yesterday was our busiest day with over 5000 opening trades, if we had to refer every trade it would be a nightmare. I would say less than 10% of trades are placed on refferal.
2. All other SB companies have the option to refer clients. Remember we are a spread betting company and as much as traders dislike this fact, we do have the right to refer clients that we believe are systems trading and not trading the real market prices. FXsour grapes - we have many traders that have been in the SB scene for ages. We do not knock back winners!
3. I know because i am being referred to dealer quite alot when i trade with IGindex. I don't mind it because i know when i get the price back i have the option to accept that trade. If i trade a price on the FTSE or Dax that is 2 pips from the market i am not too bothered, it doesnt niggle me at all. If you get re-quoted by 5to10 pips then you have a serious problem or you are trading on a price that is seriously in correct.
4. Can you accumulate all the other outstanding questions for me pls.
5. The Evil one is definately back, means Bears are back in town!
6. I did that for valentines this year saved myself £20....
wasp
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I do find it quite bizarre an SB can open then need to ask on a BB how to expand their business. Surely, like any business or trading in fact, in order to open the business in the first place you would have a busines plan and not only that, one that rises above the rest... (edge)...MarvinS said:
Take Virgin for example... When Branson started his airline, not only did he have a plan for the future of Virgin airways, he also had plans to make it unique, special and better than all the rest.
Very strange... I understand client feedback on improvements but jeez....!
And also, coming from five years trading background yourself, you must be aware of all the most basic problems and complaints with SBs (they have been circulating this forum for the last 5 years) that they should not still be at the forefront of this thread.