Upgrade UK before its too late

[Pat494]

I am aghast that the Crummy Coalition is cutting so much money from regional councils etc.
However thanks to the red money wasters I suppose there have to be cuts.

However why the Gov doesn't say to the Councils - here is the money you are going to receive this year ( on a weekly basis so the *******s don't overspend ) and you either:-

1. cut bus services, bin collections etc
or
2. Keep most of the people employed ( have to pay unemployment etc. anyway ) and share out the money available fairly. So lower wages, thanks be to Gordon and the Eds.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

What do you think it would cost to implement, maintain and assess a weekly budget for a local government?

 

[Pat494]

What do you think it would cost to implement, maintain and assess a weekly budget for a local government?

Well if they insist on hiring the clones of Goldman Sachs then a helluva lot too much

If "call me Dave" doesn't want to publicly ditch the slogan of "we're all in it togethor" then you might as well employ people to do the necessary jobs as pay them on the dole to do nothing.


The greedy bosses etc. in the NHS/Fire Service etc. are grossly overpaid too.

I think public workers ought to get used to the idea that their pay depends on how well Britain plc is doing. During hard times their pay could and should go DOWN. None of this 3% a year nonsense to keep pace with inflation, USA pay rates etc.
In good times it goes up - common sense really. Something UK politicians are short of

 

[tomorton]

Hi Pat494 - I think your idea that public sector pay should go down as well as up is fair, as long as there's a minimum floor for the low-paid. Some of the worst paid are in the public sector and their jobs need to pay more than the statutory minimum wage if they are to remain working in all areas of the country.

But the public sector isn't a gravy train. All the years I worked in the public sector, pay increases were indeed related to inflation - zero inflation, zero pay increase. Alright, certain specialised or professional jobs would from time to time have to be upgraded on a national basis but that would be to make up a shortage in recruitment, which would otherwise damage the service. There was certainly never a chance in the work to go to your boss and negotiate an individual contract on the basis that you worked harder or more efficiently than anyone else on your level of qualifications and experience.

As far as the senior management in the public sector are concerned, yes, their pay is obscene, and deliberately infated by silly comparisons with a private enterprise of a similar sized workforce and budget - the two are totally different.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

A sample of public sector workers I saw this January yielded average pay rise of 7.6% since 2006.

 

[Pat494]

I still think there should be some sort of accountability on people in responsible jobs.
The fact that Gordon Brown/Ed Balls left the country down a £154 billion black hole is almost forgotten. Surely if he had to put his money on the line too he would have been less extravagant and more careful. As it is he has got away with daylight robbery.

And as for Tony Blair !! He walzted rings around the various Iraq enquiries, let Gordon "the chump" Brown waste Britain's assets and is now worth an estimated £60million or was that last week's figure ? They can afford to live like successful kings on a very poor performance imho. Pensions/perks/cushy jobs yup they shouldn't qualify.

 

[Trader333]

The fact that Gordon Brown/Ed Balls left the country down a £154 billion black hole is almost forgotten.

It is much, much worse than this. That is just the accruing interest on the debt and the actual debt is estimated to be a staggering £4.8 Trillion


Paul

 

[Atilla]

Technically we should look at what Mr Blair with his New Labour inherited from Tories and then what Mr Brown inherited from Mr Blair. Admittedly, he was chancellor but he hardly called the shots until the very end.

I think he did well on the big decisions.

Much better than the hacking tories would have - that's for sure. imho :!:

 

[Pat494]

Technically we should look at what Mr Blair with his New Labour inherited from Tories and then what Mr Brown inherited from Mr Blair. Admittedly, he was chancellor but he hardly called the shots until the very end.

I think he did well on the big decisions.

Much better than the hacking tories would have - that's for sure. imho :!:

Just as Bush inherited a surplus from Clinton, so did Blair from John Major.
Then both went quite daft and started wars all over the planet

 

[Atilla]

Just as Bush inherited a surplus from Clinton, so did Blair from John Major.
Then both went quite daft and started wars all over the planet

US lost money in wars by most accounts but cost to the UK was marginal in terms of £5-10bn per annum I think.

Those monies will have been more than recouperated in terms of contracts and oil from Iraq. Not sure about Afghanistan but drugs bound to play some part.


I reckon Labour lost money on NHS and Education which both seem pretty messed up. I reckon politbereau had less targets and tables than Labour did. Bleeding politicians.

 

[Pat494]

Interesting to see just how democratic the end result of the anarchy in Egypt will get

From past performances around the globe they may get a much nastier character than " the old man ", who at least kept the lid on the troublesome lot.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire looks possible

 

[Pat494]

If Ed Millipede had any sense at all he would be slaughtering the coalition on:-

1. Redundancies. Really no need for anybody to be made redundant.

2. Cutting services. No need for any cuts

He needs to convince the Unions to accept the fact that there isn't enough money around to pay everyone their usual wage ,so instead of redundancies everyone should take a sufficient percentage pay cut to at least pay everyone. The fatcat Council, NHS etc. bosses are paid ridiculous amounts of money. 10% off their wages and they wouldn't hardly notice it. Share what there is around. I can't see the bosses rolling up their sleeves to shift the garbage.

The Champagne Socialism of Blair/Brown should be buried and try to remember the FAIR word !!

The Labour party might regain some cred too

 

[tomorton]

Do you think Ed Miliband isn't a Champagne Socialist then?

 

[Pat494]

Do you think Ed Miliband isn't a Champagne Socialist then?

I have to admit he does seem to have got the message that old Labour and New labour are both un-electable and it's time for a re-think.

So far I haven't heard anything about a change in philosophy and that's what Labour badly need. A fair system that won't fall flat on its economic backside in the 21st century.

The coalition are gifting someone victory - anyone almost ??????????

but can Labour catch the ball and flop over the line ( Rugby style you know )

:-0

 

[Atilla]

Do you think Ed Miliband isn't a Champagne Socialist then?

I think he is worst of the lot and very shrewd and calculating.

He was the one to realise to importance of the TU vote unlike his much liked but less calculating brother...

Ed and Balls will be a disaster for the UK.


I also concur we should be cutting back but dead against redundancies which creates more social issues and raises debt.

I think we should get rid of management layer - dead wood! They can afford it too.


Have we had any PMs who were not silver spoon fed. Curse of the UK - bleeding elitism... and stuffy know it alls.


PS Financial sector will go the way of the ship yards... Watch this space...

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Ed who? You mean that geezer who comes on the telly every now and then and pretends to have a job?

 

[Pat494]

What's the betting that all this "big society " nonsense is just political hot air and a cover for -

"take your own garbage to the dump, cos we have sacked all the dustmen in a new round of cuts and by the way the pay rises given to the pen-pushing bureaucrats at the top is not as big as the one we have planned for ourselves "

I mean really it beggars belief - he must think we are all as stupid as himself

 

[Atilla]

What's the betting that all this "big society " nonsense is just political hot air and a cover for -

"take your own garbage to the dump, cos we have sacked all the dustmen in a new round of cuts and by the way the pay rises given to the pen-pushing bureaucrats at the top is not as big as the one we have planned for ourselves "

I mean really it beggars belief - he must think we are all as stupid as himself

Yes very true.

You never had it so good
Back to basics
End of boom and bust
Big Society

I reckon politicians like to coin phrases that catch the public mood. No doubt their national newspaper editor spin-doctors come up with these and advise them to sell the big dream.

Bunch of stupid ******s feeding the mass public garbage.


I like to see an end to all these national league tables and all the management layers who collect figures and publish stats which tell us absolute FA. If anyone uses Ofstead school league tables and reports know, we have superior schools with better achievement grades - year after year. But as we all know - young generations are fucuked without calculators and can't spel.

I already know what you is thinking so don't go there bro cos I'll give you som attitude.
See where I'm coming from?

So instead of making dorks smarter and improving standards they whack on tuition fees so we'll have stupid poor *******s and even more dangerous - well spoken dumb *******s who will be able to wield greater ill informed influence - cause he learnt how to from daddy. Pretty much what we have today but more of it. Continued elitism as I like to phrase it.

We can see all these developments clearly from all the target and league tables.

At the same time reward the statisticians and civil servants producing FA with greater salaries and rewards coupled with greater holiday and sickpay. I fail to see how Council leaders can earn more than the Prime Minister. One manages the country and the other a small local area.

How much more remarkably stupid can rewarding one self get in the UK???

Civil servants, local councillers, police, judges and ofcourse under paid politicians who have to fiddle expenses to make ends meet as they have several households to run.

Root cause of all our problems as we all know are the poor paid immigrants.

Now lets sell a few forests (as we have no industry or national assets left to sell) too to reduce the debt. Take away the citizens rambling rights and constrain freedom of movement to block of flats called no go areas. What they mean is you can go in - but you ain't coming back out dude as you have found your level in society... Now stay there.

Bleeding joke. Same old hypocritical Victorian ****...

Not much has changed in last 100 years... We are still pretending to be world empire fighting stupid wars and losing soldiers to lost causes. Does anybody see Germany or France fighting wars all over the place? They just build good cars and railway stock and get on with life...


Here is an interesting fact. Since, television no bald man has ever become PM. :smart:

That is one smart stat that holds today which speaks volumes.

I guess that rules me out with my crown and receeding hairline then... :cheesy:

 

[Pat494]

The trouble is that the alternatives are probably worse. Self serving pretty boys, bandits and dimwits are but 3.

Where oh where are the talented people with integrity that will serve the country, not just filling their own pockets ?

Perhaps we need a super league table that every baby is put on at birth. Like the scout's merit badges and points are awarded through life for achievement and suitability to various professions.. But they still do an 8 hour day. The top contenders are offered the job of PM, council worker etc. - then no rigged elections to have to endure the results ( the lowest common factor )
and the best man gets the most suitable job for his abilities and everyone has a job.

 

[Shakone]

So who decides on the "best and brightest"?
I'd prefer our shambolic system to this monolithic, qausi-tyranical nonsense. Do you really think that democracy would be improved by having less choice, less often?

If you want better candidates to apply for a job, you offer more money. It's ludicrous that someone running a bank or FTSE 100 company is paid 10 times or more what someone running the country is paid. So what do you attract with a salary like that? People who are either power hungry (not what you want in charge), and people that are good politicians but not good businessman/intellects/people.

Our chancellor of the exchequer...is his background as an intellecetual powerhouse Professor of economics from Cambridge, OXford etc, or a leading economist at GoldmanSachs, JPMorgan etc? No, he's a guy with a 2:1 in History and worked previously in a data entry job, and worked in Selfridges. It's a joke!

In charge of health, someone who has worked as a leading Doctor for many years, or managed hospitals for years, nope we've just got a civil servant.

In charge of Education, another academic who has studied learning methods and published in the field, someone who has developed syllabus, run schools, or at least someone who has actually taught children? No, we have a journalist.

Ok so even if you can't get the best and the brightest, you should at least be able to get someone who is part qualified. Why do we not have a renowned Professor of economics in charge? Because the salary isn't worth it, and he would have to waste his time campaigning for this sacred thing you call democracy, which he may not even be good at. He may be a terrible politician, but brilliant economist. Who do you want for the role?


As for your last sentence, do I think democracy would be improved. You've missed the point entirely. The aim isn't to improve democracy. The aim is to improve the country. It's an illusion you've been brought up on that 'democracy=good'. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Democracy is a tool that we use, nothing more. It doesn't need to be improved, and it always has a time limit, 4 years/5years/10 years it's still democracy. And again you're under the illusion we actualyl have a democracy, which we don't. What we have is closer to a republic than a democracy.