Trading NASDAQ stocks with Jerry Olson & Ian Hodgson

[Grey1]

VWAP engine needs an oil change?

ROLS


Please donot ruin the thread with junk comments. if you have nothing technical to offer walk away

Grey

 

[Racer]

Risk and reward

I thought to start a quiz for our traders ?

IF I SAY THIS TRADE IS TOO RISKY WHAT DO I MEAN ?

I await your contributions ?

grey1

I find traders who have no emotional understanding of the markets have to rely purely on mechanical concepts like risk/reward to compensate for their lack of empathy

 

[Grey1]

...first of all grey....it depends how you define risk...i define it completely differently to any textbook......and how do you have a clue what reward is....you mean expectation of trade result i take it......only a few people ive ever meet know expectation to a decent degree.....were not talking measuring head and projecting etc....were not talking any bands....were talking knowing the players ,motives,pro intent....and s+d where it'll appear..and how price will be affected....in advance...to a high degree of accuracy.....risk reward is a nice text book myth which gives traders a sense of control....it is an illusion which gives discipline.....which in itself gives rewards yes...just like indicators etc....nothing to do with true market reading at all.....

OK Mr Marcus when you take a trade 2morrow do you use a coin to enter or you do some kind of analysis ? if you use analysis why do you do that ?

grey1

 

[rols]

ROLS


Please donot ruin the thread with junk comments. if you have nothing technical to offer walk away

Grey

It's called irony actually and is an antidote and protection against anybody getting ahead of themselves. I understand the question but not so sure about the motive. With the greatest of respect...

 

[Racer]

OK Mr Marcus when you take a trade 2morrow do you use a coin to enter or you do some kind of analysis ? if you use analysis why do you do that ?

grey1

Please donot ruin the thread with junk comments. if you have nothing technical to offer walk away

Grey

Is using a coin a valid means of entering a trade!! Do you think that is a valid question to ask or comment about?

 

[Grey1]

...see again grey......you are being disrespectful to anything you dont understand or agree with....very silly mate...i am a christian...but i respect all religions .....i can not agree with them on all matters...specially fundamental matters of course...but we all agree that respect is the starting point for all debate,discussion and progress.....without respect no conversation and potential meeting of minds can ever take place...i work with 2 Muslims....and a Hindu.....it a bit like a Noah's ark for humans.we trade as a united team.hyb

Mr marcus what on earth are you on about . if you donot wish to answer a perfectly technical question then donot bring excuses.

The question is DO YOU USE ANALYSIS TO ENTER A TRADE OR YOU USE COIN ? THERE IS A SCHOOL OF THOUGHT THAT SUPPORTS RANDOM ENTRY ..


I am not trying to insult you just trying to put forward a good technical argument for the sake of contribution to our new trader's know ledge

Your comment was last thing i was expecting Cheer up and lets get technical


Grey1

PS:-- if you like non technical arguments such as Muslim , Hindu and all that I am not your man

 

[Racer]

Grey1 why are you shouting?

 

[rols]

Mr marcus what on earth are you on about . if you donot wish to answer a perfectly technical question then donot bring excuses.

The question is DO YOU USE ANALYSIS TO ENTER A TRADE OR YOU USE COIN ? THERE IS A SCHOOL OF THOUGHT THAT SUPPORTS RANDOM ENTRY ..


I am not trying to insult you just trying to put forward a good technical argument for the sake of contribution to our new trader's know ledge

Your comment was last thing i was expecting Cheer up and lets get technical


Grey1

PS:-- if you like non technical arguments such as Muslim , Hindu and all that I am not your man

Herein lies the problem. You see, excuse the pun, you have found the grey area by omission with your animatronic comments. The humanoid types have a voice too and resent reductionalism of this kind. Markets I believe are driven by people, not robots, so why pretend otherwise and live in denial that part of your trading prowess is due to an indefinable talent that you are so lucky to have been born with. IMHO and with the greatest of respect, a spoonful of humility would not go amiss.

 

[Jerry Olson]

The Markets And General Comments

I see the natives with an extra day off a bit restless tonight...I would like to suggest that this thread is for charts, comments on stocks and set ups, trading for a living.

There are a myriad of ways to make a buck trading for a living. why not share with all of us how you all do it day in and day out. I would be very interested folks.

Next this past correction over the last 2 weeks was one of the fastest down moves i have ever seen. It was so fast & furious that many stocks are down near the bottom of the 10 week trading bands.

At the same time many of the Point & Figure bullish percents on the 4 short term indicators i watch are all very oversold and trying to base build and turn up.

This will take a bit of backing anf filling at the lows.

I suggest you all set alerts at 1245.00 Es M6 if it breaks down that would not be pretty.

At the same time i am getting some chart readings for the USD, it has bottomed here and maybe ready to rally up soon. I called it's demise months ago on Trade2 win, short the buck and long the Euro. I also said the Euro would breakout above 1.24 and it did.

So be cool out there you Forex players till i see what;s up or down over the next few days. This set up could be explosive for a potential swing trade.

So all and all we have become Data Dependant and that means ultra wild swings intraday in the markets setting up potential large profits if you're nimble enough to make the trade.

Do not ignore intraday Repeatable Redundatnt Chart Patterns. They work folks

Now everyine how about contributing something of value here

thanks for your kind consideration of my request

best to you and yours

jerry

 

[Racer]

.
.thats funny....ive had more rep points today for good posts than any other day.....hehe....guess what...they were for joking around and not trading related posts at all...hehe....no that does make me smile

Oh dear, a gloomy bear has no chance at all then

 

[Grey1]

...grey you know very well asking a trader do they use a coin is insulting and ridiculous....so dont play innocent mate...people aren't dumb....

ROFL


My dear Mr marcus

you obviously not familiar with money and risk management issues and terminologies . There is a strong view amongst traders that support a random entry is just as good as non random one . They argue that it is the exit which defines the high expectancy . Since e my quiz was about risk and reward i was hoping you would defend your point of view . Micheal Bryant has a randon entry system that uses fixed stop with non randon exit supporting a long term win .

A google search on Micheal's work using Trade station and monte carlo simulation is interesting .

Sorry to have hurt your feeling . The purpose of this BB is to contribute as much as one can and not hide knowledge.

 

[Racer]

The purpose of this BB is to contribute as much as one can and not hide knowledge.

Not hide knowledge? Hmmm...oh can I get money for saying words?

 

[Grey1]

Grey1 Wont address non technical arguments.

lets go back to the quiz where other people can share their views


IF I SAY THIS TRADE IS RISKY WHAT DO I MEAN ?

Do I mean ?

1) the risk does not justify the trade
2) I donot know what the exit or exhaustion point is hence too risky ?
3) others


This is one of the most important issues in technical analysis ... we can not ignore the issue. This must be addressed in a technical preferably in a mathematical methodology other wise we get toasted ?

Every trade is a risk based business,, we either solve the equation or get diluted


Grey1

 

[fxmarkets]

A trader should dominate and bully the market and not the other way round because once a trader gets bullied that is the end of his trading business . At this stage many have chosen to become a coach or some have even left the trading for ever.

before the risk quiz.... perhaps....

it might be quicker to shed light on, certainly what context you mean on the first bold text highlighted above and as for the second highlighted bold text.......? again explaining your thinking of the first might begin to allay fears of yourself not being pigeon holed in the latter.

looking to assist.

Fx.

 

[Jerry Olson]

...so.....what s your take on bullying the market jerry ?...this is where the initial debate started but as usual isn't addressed...do you consider this a good mind set to approach the markets with?this is very relevant to trading for a living is it not? cheers mark j

ps...yeah im sure you meant that grey.....your a funny man

pps...do you really care how i trade?...the best thing to do is later this year well trade together in a chat room...complete with blotters of course....its easier for me to show you how i trade live than spend hours expressing it in text..then we can compare mechanical against discretionary...will be an interesting ....i know well both make great money and can give it to charity if you agree...take it as an experiment and not a contest.

My Dear Mark

it's truly a matter of know how and confidence. While i am a long side trader, i always feel and know i am able to beat the markets on a given trade. I do not have to win all the time, nor do i have to be picture perfect.

the words are meaningless if you ask me. bullying or otherwise.

what does matter is, does a trader have it, or does he not...

i think that's the $64.000 buck question lliterally...

 

[buccsrugby]

Howdy,

Why argue about words such as 'bully' or methods such as 'coin toss' or 'TA vs. system based vs. discretionary, multiple times frames vs. one time frame, 2:1 r/r with low win rate or 1:1 with high win rate' etc etc., as someone said earlier there are literally thousands of ways to beat the markets but bottom line is less than 10% of traders that start down this road will ever make it to consistent profitability. IMHO while you can learn valuable info from other consistently profitable traders at the end of the day you have to find your OWN niche. IMHO arguing over diffences in how one makes money vs. another is pointless. If you feel like sharing how you make money here then by all means do it, if you don't feel like posting how you make money then why harrass other poeple that are. I would also discourage people that are posting how they make money from saying things along the lines of if you don't do this, or don't know that, or you have not defined this then you don't stand a chance etc etc. Just because one thing may be the most important thing in the world for how you make money trading it could be meaningless to someone else.

I enjoy reading all the posts from people like grey and Jerry that are obviously consistently profitable and while the argumental posts from people that don't attempt to show others their method seems pointless I would only agree from their end that grey and others should try to avoid too many statements stressing this or that MUST be done to master trading etc etc. Like I said before what could be #1 on the important list for one may be meaningless to another.

Thank you grey and Jerry and others on here for posting their methods.

Have fun and enjoy life

 

[Jerry Olson]

.. i have to disagree with you there jerry regarding the use of language....let me give you an example...i will not allow any terms which make the market personal or engage ones ego into trading....example...if any of my traders take a trade and they pronounce it as easy money..i kick ****...and will ban them from trading the following day ....why because i know just round the corner with this attitude it wont be so damn easy...these words affect mindset...they become complacent...arrogant and lazy with there ex-focused mind....so we replace the terms easy with simple....simple is a matter of educated skill levels taking it to the market...easy is more ego based.all language i use in the markets try to reflect respect and humility...yes sometimes this is a conscious decision..but thru practice it becomes nature...i will not allow anything provocative...emotive.....egotistical....not terms like....mastery ....im out to get my pips back......easy trading today etc etc.....outside the market/business.....anything goes

i used to teach positive thinking courses having needed to re-program the way i talked to myself years ago.....i realised very quickly the words we use and the internal voice we all have....our subconscious....can ultimately control our conscious unwittingly...at the moment i am helping a young boxer with his approach to his first professional fight...he is only 22 and he is already aware of the only way he will lose is thru the way he talks to himself....it is too late to change his skills....he knows he has the skills to succeed over the other chap...it is ...as he knows....completely down to the way he talks to himself know..

i am not a master..and dont claim to be in this area...but thru major experiences i know this to be a huge element regards anything we aim to achieve...inner voice...and the way we train it.thanks for the feedback....continued success.

cheers mark j

Mark

ego has nothing to do with confidence and ability. if you do not beleive in ones ability then forget it, go get a day job at McDonalds.

i have no clue who your students are, but i teach my methods to my traders day in and day out. & we do ok...

i have this ultimat manic feeling that i can and will win. to me the will to win makes all the diffrence in the world.

the real question is, does it work? If it works then forget all othe things that are meaningless to us scalp traders.

when one reduces the art of the trade, the anthomy of the trade to a small time frame and simple techniques that i am teaching in my online class as we speak, then you just Get it!

you can not believe the way light bulbs go off in traders heads that had really no clue. 95% of all traders still have no clue.

so in the scheme of things traders need to define what works for them using any tools and tactics that make them money consistantly

it's that simple really.

have a nice evening all

 

[Grey1]

just for the sake of clarity , when you become a confident trader then you appreciate the word bullying the market. On the coaching days we had here with few pro traders of from this BB , I did tell them NO MATTER WHAT WE WILL COME ON TOP . I even traded wrongly to demonstrate a "WHAT IF " scenario and we lost 2 trades but I still told them WE WILL COME ON TOP NO MATTER WHAT simply because market is not that difficult to beat . Jerry is exactly the same. I have no doubt about that

Any way

MR Marcus,

You still have not been able to come up with any thing technical about your statement on risk / reward and people of this BB are not silly to notice that you are avoiding the subject .

For the sake of other sit back and learn if you cannot contribute technically that is OK .


Now let me shed some light on my own quiz....

If you throw a dice for entry then RiSK= REWARD in another word no matter how much you risk your reward be exactly the same . This school of thought has many supporters.

If you do any kind of Analysis ( VWAP , RSI , ASTROLOGY, FIB, CHART PATTERN ) you are hoping to shift the odds to your side hence RISK < REWARD meaning you can take more money with lesser risk .

ANALYSIS

This is defined as follow

a) Technical analysis
b ) Risk analysis

most new traders spend all their life on Technical side of it how ever most pro and co operate finance spend nearly all their time on risk analysis .



RISK ANALYSIS

Risk is not an easy parameter to measure how ever it can be defined within a frame work for day traders to enjoy a better and safer trade


RISK COMPONENTS

1) Risk to capital ( how to reduce risk on capital )
2) Risk to entry ( how to reduce draw dawn )
3 Risk to trade ( how to reduce risk while in a trade due to market spike )

I will shed more light on each subject later.

Grey1

 

[Grey1]

this is a high frequency vwap engine

http://www.financetech.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=172901178

Grey1

 

[Racer]

just for the sake of clarity , when you become a confident trader then you appreciate the word bullying the market. On the coaching days we had here with few pro traders of from this BB , I did tell them NO MATTER WHAT WE WILL COME ON TOP . I even traded wrongly to demonstrate a "WHAT IF " scenario and we lost 2 trades but I still told them WE WILL COME ON TOP NO MATTER WHAT simply because market is not that difficult to beat . Jerry is exactly the same. I have no doubt about that


Grey1

So a confident trader knows about bullying the market in your view?
And "No matter what you will come on top"?

You are right and the market is wrong I presume you mean by all that.

Tell me, do you average your trades by any chance?

I even traded wrongly to demonstrate a "WHAT IF " scenario and we lost 2 trades but I still told them WE WILL COME ON TOP NO MATTER WHAT simply because market is not that difficult to beat . Jerry is exactly the same. I have no doubt about that

You traded wrongly to demonstate? Most traders know all about that already, so what was the point!

MR Marcus,

You still have not been able to come up with any thing technical about your statement on risk / reward and people of this BB are not silly to notice that you are avoiding the subject .

For the sake of other sit back and learn if you cannot contribute technically that is OK .

"for the sake of others sit back if you cannot contribute technically" that is a more than a bit wrong!