Tottenham Riots

[Atilla]

Never liked stuck up - self engrossed Starky...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14513517 OMG!

One single view - how can a twisted git like this teach objective history...

 

[the hare]

Never liked stuck up - self engrossed Starky...

One of the few voices of reason heard on the bbc these days.

extremely funny to watch him kicking **** out of 3 left wing intellectual lightweights

 

[Pazienza]

Never liked stuck up - self engrossed Starky...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14513517 OMG!

One single view - how can a twisted git like this teach objective history...

He should have known better than to express himself the way he did - he was bound to be jumped on and misrepresented. He should also have been much more forceful in challenging the things that people were claiming he said.

But nothing he said was racist (without deliberate and wilful misrepresentation) and he was probably echoing the feelings of a very large section of the population - black, white, and every colour in between.

 

[the hare]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyfm_pnPB60&feature=related

 

[DionysusToast]

I am so tired of seeing the race card being played all the time.

It's a load of BS.

You want racism? Go back 100 years.

This is straight from a book by Rudyard Kipling. Written in 1905. It's a short story called "They".

I was silent reviewing that inexhaustible matter — the more than inherited (since it is also carefully taught) brutality of the Christian peoples, beside which the mere heathendom of the West Coast nigger is clean and restrained.

Now - Rudyard in this statement is not actually trying to be offensive. It's just a reflection of the way people thought at the time.

So - please don't tell me there's a problem with racism in Britain in 2011. Unless of course you are talking about the type that white people are suffering because of affirmative action.

 

[Atilla]

I am so tired of seeing the race card being played all the time.

It's a load of BS.

You want racism? Go back 100 years.

This is straight from a book by Rudyard Kipling. Written in 1905. It's a short story called "They".



Now - Rudyard in this statement is not actually trying to be offensive. It's just a reflection of the way people thought at the time.

So - please don't tell me there's a problem with racism in Britain in 2011. Unless of course you are talking about the type that white people are suffering because of affirmative action.

I thought it was more of a opportunism and mindless thugs on rampage with nothing better to do too.

Wasn't Starky saying it was that particular group and culture kinda a thing??? You know that ol historian the race expert that he is...

Anybody have any idea why the BBC had only him at all?

BBC trying to make the news instead of telling it. What's the world coming to...

 

[scose-no-doubt]

So - please don't tell me there's a problem with racism in Britain in 2011. Unless of course you are talking about the type that white people are suffering because of affirmative action.

Stop being a f*cking retard.

 

[Splitlink]

I think that racism exists and will always be present until the old generations have died out. The reason is not that we fear colour, but that we feel what that colour represents with respect to the influence it may have on our way of life in the form of religious differences. Groups form ghettos which, in turn become no-go areas, to be feared by the wealthier classes.

When I was a kid, I came home from school to an empty, cold, house. My mother had, always, stayed at home, my father being the bread winner. The war changed that and my mother, who had been a skilled machinist in WW1, stayed on after the war because she was earning more than dad. My parents bought the house they rented because of the extra income.

So, I had to entertain myself as best I could. What was available? The local sea scout group. This became my club. Other kids joined the boys brigade, sea cadets, after school groups.

So what have to-day's kids got to join? Probably, nothing except street gangs. These become the youngsters' clubs. The clubs in my day were run by adults who were, perhaps, school teachers or someone used to being authoritative and who had a respect for the law and society. These leaders led by example. Today's leaders, also, lead by example but, being ignorant, they impose violence on their club member, instead of educated persuasion

Cameron has to look into this part of the problem. If he does not. He'll pour money down the drain.

It's not going to be easy for anyone who has a mind to start one of these clubs. When I joined the scouts, I was already formed, morally, and the scout master followed on from there.

Who is going to go into one of these gang areas and start teaching kids to help the old lady with her shopping bag, without swiping the contents? It's going to take years of patience.

This is a long post and I haven't even started to list the problems. The war on drugs has never been seriously addressed, but that's something else.

Forget the hang 'em high and build more prisons doctrine. We will, either bring this lot into our communities or it is going to get worse.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

My mum and aunties and uncles had it a lot worse in the 80s. They used to even get it from teachers in class. One was expelled for hitting a teacher for calling her a racist name.
Most of the racism I've suffered has been from people my own age or under 45 in the case of the police.
Point is it's not going anywhere... it's ingrained.

 

[Pazienza]

My mum and aunties and uncles had it a lot worse in the 80s. They used to even get it from teachers in class. One was expelled for hitting a teacher for calling her a racist name.
Most of the racism I've suffered has been from people my own age or under 45 in the case of the police.
Point is it's not going anywhere... it's ingrained.

I got called a Paki a couple of years ago (I'm not Pakistani or Asian of any description). I wouldn't put it down to racism though, it was just a drunk idiot in a pub. He was just wanting to start something and would have used any term of abuse he could.

 

[Pat494]

In my humble opinion it shouldn't matter what colour your skin is, but it often does. Racialism is rampant in many countries and apparently some worse than Britain. Many black people seem firmly convinced that they are the only victims but try being white and live in Zimbabwe, Pakistan etc.

A person should be judged by his/her attitudes and beliefs and eventually may be. Their generosity of spirit and honesty etc. or whether they are thugs and criminals. The foregiveness and charity of some should not be wasted on the latter imho.

If I am right then people might be graded on such things as being positive like good companions, integrity etc on one end of the spectrum all the way down to those who could do with corporal punishment for minor misdemeaners and something more extreme for major offences, like murder etc.

 

[Shakone]

scose-no-doubt is correct. Racism is inherent in human nature. It has and will always exist. But the problem to me is people trying to hide it under the carpet, or trying to make racism out of things that aren't, adn using it as an excuse.

If the chance of black people getting stopped by police is 5 times as likely as white people getting stopped, then groups will cry about racism. But then if the stats of a black person being involved in gun crime is 5 times as likely, then you SHOULD be searching black people 5 times more often than a white person. That's not racism, that's logic. If being black you find this unfair, then your anger should be directed towards other blacks that cause this statistic, just as muslims have to suffer because of the insane terrorists.

It's not fair to you as the innocent individual, but it's human nature, and there are no perfect systems.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Many black people seem firmly convinced that they are the only victims but try being white and live in Zimbabwe, Pakistan etc.

:?: Who? When?
Most black people I know swap stories with arabs, chinese, asians, eastern europeans (don't know any jews though) but what you need to realise is that black people get it from everyone too.
You wouldn't believe the reactions of some of the chinese and asian families when a black guy walks through the door. Recently, my brothers friend's partner was disowned for deciding to have a baby with him. They seemed to be particularly incensed by the fact that he was very dark and "not even mixed race".

Re white folks in Zimbabwe etc... are the black folks are doing any better? At least white people had a good run there :S

 

[scose-no-doubt]

scose-no-doubt is correct. Racism is inherent in human nature. It has and will always exist. But the problem to me is people trying to hide it under the carpet, or trying to make racism out of things that aren't, adn using it as an excuse.
Yep. All stems from the Great Britannia us and them mentality or it's geographically relative equivalent.

If the chance of black people getting stopped by police is 5 times as likely as white people getting stopped, then groups will cry about racism. But then if the stats of a black person being involved in gun crime is 5 times as likely, then you SHOULD be searching black people 5 times more often than a white person. That's not racism, that's logic. If being black you find this unfair, then your anger should be directed towards other blacks that cause this statistic, just as muslims have to suffer because of the insane terrorists.
Which is why the stats should be worked on demographic and not just race. 5 times more likely how? That people in a similar socio-economic situation and location? I highly doubt it. Government and institutions perpetuate this type of problem with their ridiculous box ticking but personally I think that's their plan. Gives an easy target while they side step the real issues.

It's not fair to you as the innocent individual, but it's human nature, and there are no perfect systems.

:clover:

 

[Pazienza]

:?: Who? When?
Most black people I know swap stories with arabs, chinese, asians, eastern europeans (don't know any jews though) but what you need to realise is that black people get it from everyone too.
You wouldn't believe the reactions of some of the chinese and asian families when a black guy walks through the door. Recently, my brothers friend's partner was disowned for deciding to have a baby with him. They seemed to be particularly incensed by the fact that he was very dark and "not even mixed race".

Re white folks in Zimbabwe etc... are the black folks are doing any better? At least white people had a good run there :S

The worst racism I've seen directed against black people has come from Asians in Birmingham. Unbelievable the stuff they come out with.

As for how black folks are doing in Zimbabwe, it varies quite a lot. Some very good, so not so good. It kind of depends whether the dictator is well-disposed to you ("Here! Have a farm!") or not ("This area has a high proportion of people who voted for MDC. That is why I am deliberately attempting to starve you to death, if the beatings do not take care of you first.").

 

[counter_violent]

Goes back to what i've thought for a long time. People are first and foremost tribal, no getting away from it.

 

[Splitlink]

Goes back to what i've thought for a long time. People are first and foremost tribal, no getting away from it.

Comes from the chimps!

 

[the hare]

Goes back to what i've thought for a long time. People are first and foremost tribal, no getting away from it.

Yeah, but often these tribes are really flexible. Watch how football hooligans who normally knock seven bells out of each other will cease hostilities and combine into a north v south tribe, or a UK tribe when abroad

I was reading that london has around 200 gangs, who would generally be beating crap out of each other based on no other reason than the postcode area someone lives in, and yet during the recent riots hostilities temporarily ceased and they combined to give the old bill a kicking and to loot some shops.

all this stuff is a lot more complex than black, white, rich, poor etc.

 

[counter_violent]

Yeah, but often these tribes are really flexible. Watch how football hooligans who normally knock seven bells out of each other will cease hostilities and combine into a north v south tribe, or a UK tribe when abroad

I was reading that london has around 200 gangs, who would generally be beating crap out of each other based on no other reason than the postcode area someone lives in, and yet during the recent riots hostilities temporarily ceased and they combined to give the old bill a kicking and to loot some shops.

all this stuff is a lot more complex than black, white, rich, poor etc.

Yes it's as you suggest, in it's simplest form eg black white, man woman etc but then when it suits, collaborations exist usually where there's something to be gained.

 

[Shakone]

One solution is to call these rioting crimes an act of terrorism (not unreasonable considering the terror they have caused some residents), and therefore you can then use terrorist law to detain the suspects for several days without charges, confiscate all of their wealth and goods, and detain them as prisoners of war in Guantanamo-bay type conditions. The human-rightists will cry of course, but the riots wouldn't last long.

Too harsh?