This government is totally insane.

[arabianights]

Whether or not SOME evidence does suggest this, this is irrelevent.

A responsible law abiding adult, should accept that if they did commit such a crime, they would rightly have to suffer the consequences.
Society would deem that they do not deserve to be treat like a law abiding citizen - and they would lose their freedom and be sent to the big house. The guilty should not look to get themselves off the hook, just because it is themselves.

There you go letting society make value judgements again

 

[trendie]

there is a fascinating 4-part program by Tony "Baldrick" Robinson called Crime and Punishment.
Its available on Channel4s on-demand website.

this is one of the most entertaining and informative series I have seen in a long while.
A stroll through britains hsitory, and how the beliefs of the day determined the law, and how it was enforced.
It goes through the key events that resulted in judges, juries and various forms of punishment, and how the crown, initially believed to be above the law, eventually lost its power to the rule of law.

It also covers, in a tangential way, the introduction of democracy for all, rather than just for the ruling classes.

worth watching.

 

[JTrader]

The answer to 1984 is 1776!

 

[neil]

Not at all as the same argument could be said for legitimising the way in which Hitler got to power. It wasn't by doing right but more by others not doing what was right that allowed it.


Paul

Mugabe

 

[FXSCALPER2]

http://www.bnp.org.uk/pdf_files/minimanifesto2007.pdf


Their popularity among UK voters is forever increasing. Therefore they must be doing something right!

Objectively speaking of course!

Their popularity shows you people are unsophisticated, narrow-minded d!ckheads, doesn't it? After all, people like me would be subjected to discrimination on the basis of colour. Is my life and liberty less valuable than yours? Objective my ass.

 

[FXSCALPER2]

Fair enough. But then, if you refuse to go to their website, how can you be SURE whats ACTUALLY in their manifesto?

Why would any decent human being want to associate with people whose raison detre is ethnic cleansing? Once someone says their basic premise is based on not allowing my son to enjoy life and liberty based on the colour of his skin, there is nothing to find out. They are beyond the pale. If one insists to find out the good points about scum like that, it shows that one is a bigotted sh!thead.

 

[arabianights]

Why would any decent human being want to associate with people whose raison detre is ethnic cleansing? Once someone says their basic premise is based on not allowing my son to enjoy life and liberty based on the colour of his skin, there is nothing to find out. They are beyond the pale. If one insists to find out the good points about scum like that, it shows that one is a bigotted sh!thead.

I think the point JTrader was trying to make is that one shouldn't assume anything about the BNP unless you've checked they've said that.

As it happens their website makes it pretty clear they are saying that. But always best to check the primary source.

 

[Mr. Charts]

FXscalper,
I tried to give you rep points (FWIW) but couldn't.
I share your hatred for the scum

We'll probably hear soon how that nice man, Herr Hitler, was simply misunderstood and really loved all non-Aryans and never ever did any harm to anybody. I mean he didn't actually say on his election material how he was going to slaughter millions......
JEEZ !!!

Richard

 

[the blades]

FXscalper,
I tried to give you rep points (FWIW) but couldn't.
I share your hatred for the scum

We'll probably hear soon how that nice man, Herr Hitler, was simply misunderstood and really loved all non-Aryans and never ever did any harm to anybody. I mean he didn't actually say on his election material how he was going to slaughter millions......
JEEZ !!!

Richard

the trouble is that the main parties wont discuss the subject of immigration for fear of being branded racist.

There are many people who are not racist, but want control over who enters our country (black / white /purple / green being unimportant). That isn't about race - it's just common sense.

How many people can a small island inhabit without concreteing over the rest of it? Why can't we discuss it without being branded racist? Why can't we celebrate st George or fly our flag (a flag that represents black / white / rich / poor)?

No right minded people want to "send people home" based on skin colour. We're told we need the workforce - what about millions of scroungers who could work, living it up on incapacity benefits etc? How much should our economy expand at the expense of other measures. Where does simple happiness come in to the equation?

The main parties fail miserably to engage in this topic - allowing the bast_ards from the BNP to feed on people's concerns.

UTB

 

[TheBramble]

Richard, what have you started….? (Seriously, nice thread, lots of views…and my comments below sincerely not directed at anyone in particular, apart from Arabian…)

The problem with making value judgements is that you have to put yourself in one camp or another to do so, and in doing so, you open yourself up to being judged by others not in that camp. If you consider their judgment of you as valid as your judgement of them all’s well and good, no wars, no hatred, no offence. Recognition.

The thing is, we tend, if we’re not careful and constantly aware and on our guard, to assume it’s OK to be governed by legislation and peer pressure as if it was all there ever was and it was always that way. But all this ever is, is political and cultural fashion – it’s a function of the date on the calendar and the longitude/latitude at which we find ourselves, rather than by any personal values, beliefs or mores we may like to feel we hold dear. The public wants what the public gets. Lambs to the slaughter.

I appreciate your frustrations with the current UK government. But look where the topic is naturally heading. You can’t legislate against human nature.

I’m pretty much with Arabian on this. Don’t prejudge – do your own thorough research rather than parrot 2nd hand views. And never, ever see yourself as apart form your own true nature – there isn’t one of you reading this post that wouldn’t, under the right circumstances, do whatever, absolutely whatever, was necessary to achieve a goal you felt strongly enough about. Absolutely nothing. As it should be.

 

[TheBramble]

If one insists to find out the good points about scum like that, it shows that one is a bigotted sh!thead.

Helpless with laughter....

 

[Mr. Charts]

I could and would kill under certain circumstances - yes.
Rape and paedophilia - no.

I imagine the above would apply to most people reading this.

 

[temptrader]

I think the point JTrader was trying to make is that one shouldn't assume anything about the BNP unless you've checked they've said that.

As it happens their website makes it pretty clear they are saying that. But always best to check the primary source.

you don't need to check out what they say, the basis of their beliefs speaks for itself.

My view is that people sometimes believe what they WANT to believe, even if it is sometimes irrational because it has emotional involvement behind it. It's stupid, but that's what people are like sometimes. Even genius or intelligence doesn't make you immune to this. When Werner Heinsenberg wanted to do research on relativity he wasn't allowed to because his superiors thought it was a "Jewish" science. That's really laughable, since if a non Jewish person had discovered relativity it would have been different.

The BNP are scum, but there will always be a minority of the population in sympathy with their beliefs, even if their beliefs are laughable flawed and absurd.

 

[arabianights]

you don't need to check out what they say, the basis of their beliefs speaks for itself.

Yeah, but how do you check the basis of their beliefs without asking what their beliefs are?

I suppose it depends how much you trust the government and media to represent them accurately.

As it happens the media has represented them more or less accurately but I would never trust the media to represent anyone's views fairly.

 

[JTrader]

Their popularity shows you people are unsophisticated, narrow-minded d!ckheads, doesn't it? After all, people like me would be subjected to discrimination on the basis of colour. Is my life and liberty less valuable than yours? Objective my ass.

I was stating facts, BNP and other anti-EU political parties who also want to control immigration ARE increasing in popularity in the UK - FACT. Even the conservatives see the need to control immigration, and are for limiting UK involvement in the EU. Does this make Tory voters racists?

No need to make it personal against me - i.e. "you people", "yours" etc. Don't make sweeping unfounded assumptions about me and my beliefs. Thanks.

 

[arabianights]

What has anti-EU got to do with anti-immigration?

If I had anything to do with it I'd nuke Brussels but I think we need more immigration.

 

[JTrader]

What has anti-EU got to do with anti-immigration?

If I had anything to do with it I'd nuke Brussels but I think we need more immigration.

The EU members states allow free movement of citizens throughout the EU community.

Some countries/political parties/citizens do not like the thought of a country being over run with people from other EU states - i.e. Poles in the UK.

Switzerland is in Europe, but not the EU. Therefore a UK citizen cannot just go and live there without appropriate visas etc. as they could do so in France, Germany, Holland etc. (EU members).

Therefore withdrawing from the EU would be a means of limiting/preventing immigration from citizens of EU member states. The EU enables free movement. Withdrawing from the EU would prevent this.

 

[arabianights]

There are other ways to have free movement within Europe other than the EU.

 

[JTrader]

There are other ways to have free movement within Europe other than the EU.

Oh.

 

[MrGecko]

The UK would grind to a halt if it wasn't for working Immigrants. My Gardners are Portugese and my Cleaner is Polish; I hired them because the british alternatives were either too lazy; too expensive; just sh!t at their jobs; or cowboys.

Better to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and reward those who deserve it. It's evolution, embrace it!

P.S. This is my 400th post, so It's about time: "Greed is good, greed works".