The Journey from the Basement

[SOCRATES]

Animal lesson No 3.
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From The Adventures of Alice in Wonderland, By Lewis Carroll.
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Here Alice is in conversation with the Gryphon and the Mock Turtle ~ we continue......
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Gryphon says"Yes, we went to school by the sea, though you may not believe it-----"

I"I never said I didn't !" interrupted Alice.

"You did!" said the Mock Turtle.

"Hold your tongue !" added the Gryphon, before Alice could speak again. TheMock Turtle went on.

"We had the best of educations---in fact , we went to school every day---"

"I've been to a day-school, too"said Alice, "you needn't be so proud as all that."

"With Extras?" asked the Mock Turtle, a little anxiously.

"Yes"said Alice: "We learned French and Music."

"And washing?"said the Mock Turtle.

"Certainly not!" said Alice indignantly.

"Ah ! Then yours wasn't a really good school,"said the Mock Turtle in a tone of great relief."Now at ours, they had, at the end of the bill, "French, Music, and Washing---extra.

"You couldn't have wanted it much," said Alice, "living at the bottom of the sea."

"I couldn't afford to learn it," said the Mock Turtle with a sigh, "I only took the regular course."

"What was that ?" inquired Alice.

"Reeling and writhing, of course to begin with," the Mock Turtle replied:"and then the different branches of
Arithmetic -- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification, and Derision"

"I never heard of 'Uglification'", Alice ventured to say"What is it?"

The Gryphon lifted up both its paws in surprise."Never heard of Uglifying?" it exclaimed. "You do know what to beautify is, I suppose ?"

"Yes" said Alice doubtfully,:"it means ---to---make anything---prettier."

"Well then" the Gryphon went on, "if you don't know what to uglify is, you are a simpleton."

Alice did not feel encouraged to ask any more questions about it and turned to the Mock Turtle, and said:
"What else had you to learn?"

"Well, there was Mystery, " the Mock Turtle replied, counting off the the subjects on his flappers,---

"Mystery, ancient and modern, with Seography: then Drawling, --- the Drawling Master was an old conger eel, that used to come once a week: he taught us Drawling, Stretching, and Fainting in Coils."

"What was that like?" said Alice.

"Well, I can't show it to you, myself," the Mock Turtle said, "I'm too stiff. And the Gryphon never learnt it."

"Hadn't time," said the Gryphon: "I went to the Classical Master, though. He was an old Crab, he was."

"I never went to him," the Mock Turtle said with a sigh.

"He taught Laughing and Grief, they used to say."-----------Bramble, please----pay attention-----

"so he did, so he did," said the Gryphon,sighing in his turn; --- Bramble ! --- and both creatures hid their
faces in their paws.

"And how many hours a day did you do lessons?" said Alice, now in a hurry to change the subject.

"Ten hours the first day," said the Mock Turtle: "nine the next, and so on."

"What a curious plan!" exclaimed Alice.

"That 's the reason they are called lessons," the Gryphon remarked: "because they lessen from day to day."

This was quite a new idea to Alice, and she thought it over a little before she made her next remark.


"Then the eleventh day must be a holiday?"

"Of course it was," said the Mock Turtle.

"And how did you manage on the twelfth?" Alice went on eagerly.

"Thats enough about lessons, " the Gryphon interrupted in a very decided tone (not a dark tone),

"Tell her something about the games now."

 

[neil]

Apropos of recent posts a bit of information for those who may perhaps be losing the thread

"Philosophers such as Plato understood well that to be simply told or exteriorly shown the truth was insufficient. Words, formulas and phenomena were not realities in themselves but only shadows of reality*. Rather, the only possibilty to actually know the truth was to become that truth. From the initial vow, a student entered into a lengthy gestation period in which he assembled in himself the moral, intellectual, and spiritual faculties necessary to sustain him through the difficult trials of the epoptic experience, his birth into the new world of "That which is""

*See a previous post.

a320
Rabelais eh - quotes are difficult on a public site

just come across this little gem by Jonathan swift - I'm sure others know it but it seems worthy of repetition
"There is a gulf where thousands fell,
Here all the bold advent'rers came;
A narrow sound tho' deep as hell,
‘Change Alley is the dreadfull name.

Nine times a day it ebbs and flows,
Yet he that on the surface lies,
Without a pilot seldom knows
The time it falls, or when ‘twill rise.

Subscribers here by thousands float,
And jostle one another down,
Each paddling in his leaky boat,
And here they fish for gold and drown.

Now buried in the depths below,
Now mounted up to heaven again,
They reel and stagger to and fro,
At their wits' end, like drunken men.

Meantime, secure on Garraway cliffs,
A savage race, by shipwrecks fed,
Lie waiting for the foundered skiffs,
And strip the bodies of the dead"

all good stuff

So - you've been to Cornwall then ?

 

[Rognvald]

Not for a while

 

[robq]

some more financial doggerel to while the time away

http://www.apolloinvestment.com/poetry.htm

 

[Rognvald]

robq

Doggerel is worthless verse - we must disagree on whether the verses I posted or the ones you gave us a link to are worthless.


What is being given here is a lesson that only the most patient and the determined will learn and it seems to me that you may not have the those qualities in abundance.


Animal Lesson No 3 - a summary

Alice talks to two fantastic creatures, The Mock Turtle and the Gryphon, that tell her about their learning experiences at school. They went to a good school offering choice with extras on the bill (washing, music and French) but it seems that Alice did not - athough she is still willing to learn.

The mock turtle couldn’t afford a course with extras but took all the basic ones such as: Reeling, writhing and arithmetic (ambition, distraction, uglification and derision), Mystery - ancient & modern, Seography.

In addition the school taught Drawling, Stretching and Fainting in Coils. The teacher was an old conger eel. Alice asked the Mock Turtle to show her how the fainting in coils was done but he was too stiff to do so. The Gryphon didn’t, unfortunately, ever manage to learn how to it as he hadn’t time. He (Gryphon) preferred to spend time on Laughing & Grief (which he was taught by an old crab).

Alice asked how many hours a day their lessons went on and was amazed to find that they decreased in length as time went on with a heavy load at first and gradually got less with a holiday after the shortest one.

If I’m heading in the right direction perhaps Socrates will tell me and I can post a short analysis.

 

[a320]

robq

What is being given here is a lesson that only the most patient and the determined will learn .

One has to become a Zelator to Stay on their chosen pathein.

CJ

 

[SOCRATES]

One has to become a Zelator to Stay on their chosen pathein

I am disappiointed in you A320, and I will tell you why:~

You put a lot of time and effort into researching ratios and all sorts of scaffolding.
This is no mean feat.

I can tell you because in the course of development as a fully fledged trader it is
a natural thing to do. We all of us who are inquisitive have to explore ideas.
If we are not inquisitive we do not progress, in fact we are apt to go backwards.

This is because none of this is here for our benefit. It is here to protect capitalism,
and within capitalism, the framework that holds it together, which is democracy.
That is why totalitarian states, even if they have vast natural resources, and vast
and cheap supplies of labour, remain economically undeveloped.

All of us darksiders have during the course of our development, explored
all these ideas of ratios, formulae, systems, black boxes, theorems, and so on.
We then move on if we are capable of realising that these type of constraints
cannot harness what is not possible to harness.

I can tell you my No 1 France has the biggest private library in the country, listing
just under 3700 books. I personally have given away the great majority of all the
books I accumulated, because what you have to learn and master is not to be
found in books, but you have to read them first in the same way that a girl has to
kiss many toads before she can hope to find a prince.

He, after having accumulated this vast collection, which takes
up a whole room, also concurs with me, he now keeps them because to see it is
truly impressive, but useless. This leads me to suggest to you that you ought to
be more patient and consider that there are areas of great interest in this topic
which are not to be found in books.

In this connection you will if you are lucky and manage to encounter the really knowledgeable who when approached always say that hell has to freeze over before they sit down to write a book about this topic.

It is not necessarily the case that these few individuals are selfish or unfair to others
who need to know. It happens that what is required from you is beyond what
can tangibly be laid out.

There are two main things against it.:

The first one is that you have to change the way you are. Why should you, you ask ?

The second is that which cannot be grafted on to individuals who are not
willing or not able to change the way they are. "Why not ?" is the question

The answers lie within yourself.

I have said before " I can show you the route you ought to follow, but I cannot and will not walk it for you."
If you pay attention to what I develop in my posts and if you are ready to have
realisations which are meaning ful, you will benefit, if not, you will not.

I am doing my best. I cannot and will not do more, because I am I and not you.
You ought not to be impatient or otherwise, because as you have grafted with
this topic for some time, and I can clearly see from exclusively a mechanical posture,
you owe it to yourself if to no one else to be patient and open minded, not the opposite.

I assure you though that even if we never meet I truly would like the best for you.

 

[SOCRATES]

Animal Lesson No 3 Alice's conversation with the Gryphon and The Mock Turtle:~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now being prepared and so to follow shortly.

The main drift of the story is that these creatures are really sea creatures, not land creatures.

Therefore from the point of view of Alice, and indeed all of us who read this, they did in fact receive an education, but a useless one.This concept of education having a feature of uselessness is mirrored in our society. But in our society the feature of uselessness is
not so blatant as to be obvious. It is more subtle, hence more difficult to pin it, is it not ?

If you want to become traders nothing of what you are taught at School, in the Poly, at College or University is of any use whatsoever when you come face to face first of all with the markets and secondly with yourself. That is, with yourself it you dare to dare.

In consequence of this there should be but there isn't a choice of curriculums available
for those who do not wish to become civil servants, dentists, scientists, doctors, lawyers,
accountants, or road sweepers( oops, sorrry, sorry, Refuse Engineers, I beg your pardon).
There should be available courses of study on alternative curriculums covering such
topics as:

The art and practice of Speculation.
The principles of risk quantification.
The development of Persona.
The development of Persona Detached.
The principles of Mind Development.
The protocols of self management and self responsibilty.
Techniques for handling tactical decisions dependent upon conditions of uncertainty.
Alternative Economics.
Alternative Political Theory.
Alternative Mathematics.
Transmutaion.
Transposition.
Transalteration.
Tanking.
Verinegation.
Time Studies.
Biomind Facultiy Development, just to give you a flavour of what is missing......

But of course there are not. In consequence when an individual decides to ignore the conventional route to follow, that which is not signposted, result :~ Catastrophe !

The tragedy is that the individual is prevented from progressing without him consciously
realising it. I mean to say this is really a wicked plot against people whos only desire,
is not to interfere with anybody but to become independent, free and well off.
Is that too much to ask ? Yes, it is (everything) !

Let us continue, because Alice, as a consequence of her naivety in pursuing a conversation
with individuals whose values are so different as to be remote, now stumbles on a gem.
The gem is an idea. Everything has to start with an idea, because thoughts are magical.

When thought is correctly applied in a structured manner wonderful things can be allowed
to happen. If these thoughts are not structured and they are allowed to run riot in the mind
without structure, they can cause either a lot of mischief or what is worse, the loss of an
opportunity.

Alice, after giving the matter a little reflection, suggests that if the lessons diminish by one
hour every day the twelfth day will be a holiday.
This concept is immediately brushed aside, the attention now diverted to The Games.

This is exactly like in my observation the majority of society, who are not interested in
mastering the lessons by changing themselves first, then being open minded, then learning
the lessons, then making mistakes and not repeating the mistakes.

No ! The Games are the goal, and in seeking the Games prematurely, the whole whole
plot is lost.

Does it not occur to you that there are vey significant and valuable lessons to be derived
from this in order not to fall into self set ambushes and other perils ?

 

[a320]

I agree with what your saying SOCRATES.

But I really must say , I think you've missed the Mystes element of the carefully chosen words.

It is not a reference to Geometry or any other tradition method,, but a development of self . As ones who understand the hidden meaning of the "fool" I posted.

Not to worry, I'm probably going to deep for these boards, May be I've miss "read" your use of the Star Chamber, with its deep hidden meaning.

CJ

 

[SOCRATES]

I agree with what your saying SOCRATES.

But I really must say , I think you've missed the Mystes element of the carefully chosen words.

It is not a reference to Geometry or any other tradition method,, but a development of self . As ones who understand the hidden meaning of the "fool" I posted.

Not to worry, I'm probably going to deep for these boards, May be I've miss "read" your use of the Star Chamber, with its deep hidden meaning.

CJ

Thank you for your explanation, A320, we rely on your cooperation in trying to raise the awareness of the less aware and to focus the attention of the unfocused, I sincerely
hope we can make progress on these two fronts in the days and weeks that follow.

 

[SOCRATES]

By the way , my wife has just told me she has been watching a film on channel 5 television
entiltled "Simon Birch ~ Aka a small miracle", about apparently a dwarf , who says:~

"what I do and what I want to do are two separate things ~ if we all did what we wanted to,
all the time, the world would be Chaos !".

This is also something else for you to ponder about,
in the hope it may trigger meaningful realistions !

You cannot complain that I don't tell you everything.

 

[TheBramble]

"if we all did what we wanted to, all the time, the world would be Chaos !".

Your quote attributed to Simon Birch did make me wonder what the alternative(s) might be.

It has been my long held belief that it is only when we are doing the things we want to do that we are in tune with our core purpose and produce worthwhile results either of a tangible nature or of a personal one. Quite the opposite view, it would seem, to that of Simon Birch. We move away from Chaos and toward Order only when we are truly 'engaged'.

We are only ever 'engaged' when we are enthusiastic. By definition, we can not be enthusiastic about something we do not want to do.

The alternatives to doing what you want are doing those things that are 'have to', 'must', 'need'. The mandatories. We all have these in our lives to varying degrees, but it is largely a relic of our puritan, christian and possibly geographical heritage that leads people to cheerily 'expect' and 'accept' the dross as 'part of their lot'. The implicit assumption within that being if we all did 'just' what we wanted none of the mandatories would be accomplished. This makes a basic and quite incorrect assumption that everyone has things they want to do and would quite happily be engaged in these activities full-time if there were no other calls on their time. This simply isn't the case. The vast majority don't have a game plan or a life plan or any compelling drive toward anything much other than meeting their basic needs of food, shelter, clothing and entertainment. There will always be people who want to drive buses and trains, be fireman, police whatever.

This doesn't absolve us from carrying out those mandatories we have we a good heart and to the best of our ability. But to allow a mindset of unnecessary limitation and constraint to settle on doing 'just what we want' is a disservice to the individual and to society as a whole.

And that viewpoint is up to the individual of course, but it is not a viewpoint that can lead to ultimate success in any endeavour.

I doubt many on these boards would agree with Simon Birch's 'take' on life, but then I imagine his personal situation has led him to have quite a different perspective than the majority of us here. (Absolutely no pun intended).

 

[SOCRATES]

You have arrived at what we call a "glass wall" or "glasswall", now see if you can go through it.

 

[Rognvald]

Tony
I have shown in my life that a number of things which were said by some to be "impossible" for me to achieve were in fact achieved. This was done as a result of an application of my will to arrive at a certain outcome. There is, as Socrates has pointed out here, "an opportunity cost" in this . We make those decisions for ourselves and to achieve certain things we forgo the opportunity of others. That is our free decision.

Clearly there are limitations but these are much less restrictive than we may often believe.

To say that "There will always be people who want to drive buses and trains, be fireman, police whatever" is to make a value judgement that I feel should not be made. I may as well say "there will always be people who want to be brain surgeons, newspaper tycoons, software barons, Presidentsof the United States - whatever. We will all do different things or have different ambitions - realised or unrealised.

People make of their lives what they want - and the path they tread is largely within their own control*. Some people are content with certain occupations and lifestyles and the rewards and responsibilities and freedoms that those offer, others are driven elsewhere. Some are genuinly unable to escape their physical, mental, social and environmental limitations. Are people who in their own eyes live fulfilled lives to be judged by others who are looking for something different?

*This does not produce chaos in the generally accepted understanding of the term although it is chaos in another sense of the word

 

[SOCRATES]

Tony
I have shown in my life that a number of things which were said by some to be "impossible" for me to achieve were in fact achieved. This was done as a result of an application of my will to arrive at a certain outcome. There is, as Socrates has pointed out here, "an opportunity cost" in this . We make those decisions for ourselves and to achieve certain things we forgo the opportunity of others. That is our free decision.

People make of their lives what they want - and the path they tread is largely within their own control*. Some people are content with certain occupations and lifestyles and the rewards and responsibilities and freedoms that those offer, others are driven elsewhere. Some are genuinly unable to escape their physical, mental, social and environmental limitations. Are people who in their own eyes live fulfilled lives to be judged by others who are looking for something different?

This is beginning to tilt in the right direction......

 

[TheBramble]

To say that "There will always be people who want to drive buses and trains, be fireman, police whatever" is to make a value judgement that I feel should not be made. I may as well say "there will always be people who want to be brain surgeons, newspaper tycoons, software barons, Presidentsof the United States - whatever.

I wasn't making a value judgement Ron. Your additions to my list are simply that - additions to the list of jobs and professions that people will always do. No Chaos there.

I guess what I didn't get across too well was that whatever your goal or target , you'll very likely reach it. Sometimes you'll fall a little short. Sometimes you will exceed your expectations.

The key point is that this generally hold true - whatever your target!

So you may as well assume no artificial constraints and no vaguely imagined limitations - and aim high. The alternative is to hope for mediocrity - which is what the majority, trying to armour themselves against the 'inevitable' disappointment of failure, do on a consistent basis. And that's what the majority achieve.

To plan and have contingencies is vital to any endeavour - as traders we do this routinely. We must have complete confidence in our abilities to do well and to be ready to deal with any eventuality. To expect less than total magnificence and success is to short-change yourself before you've even started. And it's all mental attitude.

It's only the very few who make no assumptions and allow their reality to unfold as it will that achieve the apparently impossible.

I think that was what I was trying to say.

 

[SOCRATES]

It's only the very few who make no assumptions and allow their reality to unfold as it will that achieve the apparently impossible.

Good progress, carry on !

 

[SOCRATES]

Special message for Bracke~ here is a current example of dramatic irony.
On the home page at the top there appeared a few minutes ago one of these flashing adverts.
The website in the flashing ad is promoting Alice In Wonderland T - Shirts.
They think we are Alice in Wonderland fans - which we are not of course, we are using
Alice and her Adventures in Wonderland as a vehicle to illustrate an abstract concept.
We know this. The advertiser does not. In consequence he arrives at an incorrect assumption.
This is wryly comical, but only to us and not the advertiser who is not privy to what is going on.
He just wants to sell T Shirts, and is oblivious to the degree that his inclusion is out of context wth the current discussions about Alice. This is an example of Dramatic Irony. Dramatic Irony with Unintentional Comical Twist.
OK ?

 

[Rognvald]

The advertiser's agent uses an "intelligent" piece of software to search for items that may interest him as a FILTER to better target potential purchasers of his wares. A true irony. Cuase and effect?

Special message for Bracke~ here is a current example of dramatic irony.
On the home page at the top there appeared a few minutes ago one of these flashing adverts.
The website in the flashing ad is promoting Alice In Wonderland T - Shirts.
They think we are Alice in Wonderland fans - which we are not of course, we are using
Alice and her Adventures in Wonderland as a vehicle to illustrate an abstract concept.
We know this. The advertiser does not. In consequence he arrives at an incorrect assumption.
This is wryly comical, but only to us and not the advertiser who is not privy to what is going on.
He just wants to sell T Shirts, and is oblivious to the degree that his inclusion is out of context wth the current discussions about Alice. This is an example of Dramatic Irony. Dramatic Irony with Unintentional Comical Twist.
OK ?

 

[SOCRATES]

Yes, and I forgot to add the twist, which is this:

As we are privy to the real agenda we can "afford" to make a joke of it, but to the advertiser it is not a joke, therefore he cannot "afford" to treat it in the way we would, if we wanted to, or chose to.

This sharp contrast occurs as a consequence of conflicting INTENT and is what gives the matter TWIST.

A similar scenario exists between market experts and the herd. It is the TWIST of INTENT that when an outcome results that which is not the outcome expected ~ this delivers a huge information shock for which the herd may not neccessarily be prepared, the result is potentially catastrophic to the naive, the opinionated, the unprepared and the unaware, and the upstarts, but is smugly beneficial to the others.

This time if it were not so funny it would be really serious.