The Journey from the Basement

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china white said:
QUOTE: "if it were not so serious, it would be funny."

SOCRATES, rarely have i heard an explanation of what the markets are in 10 words. EXEPTIONALLY well said! :)

China, I take that as an enormous compliment from you as you have demonstrated to me you are a truly battle hardened professional, and that you understand beyond understanding.
I am doing my best here to raise the awareness level of the audience and I know you are
abreast of what has to be done to try to do this. I am grateful for your support ~ the hits on
this thread are climbing faster than any other. I hope I am doing something right.
I have also in your absence expanded on post 953# , above.
 
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Socrates - many thx!

remember that ancient story about the Book of Dead which was so skillfully played in The Mummy film? The only thing is that the actual story was very different from the film's script. The problem was not finding it. THE BOOK WAS THERE for everyone to read BUT no-one could read it!

What Socrates, Skim and other darksiders are doing here is so to speak opening the eyes for everyone so ppl can start reading it. In all honesty i personally do not think i am the dumbest lad in the world but it took me next to 5 yrs to start seeing things so clearly. Why? ok - i did not have ppl like Socrates or Skim teaching me when I started trading, so I had to keep my eyes open and do ALL the hard work to walk the walk so I cud start talking the talk :) BUT even that is beyond the point believe it or not...... AS ANY OF US i had ego, thought i was a big shot etc..... most importantly thought the markets were essentially what I see them to be. IT IS ONLY AFTER U GET RID OF THAT NOTION essentially changing yourself (because that is engraved in the human nature) THAT U WILL BECOME A PROFESSIONAL TRADER!!!!

And Socrates is putting his sterling effort to make it easier for every1 to undergo that transformation. U've got my utmost respect mate! Not just for the high professionalism, but also for standing up to whip ppl if necessary - this is the only way for them to learn. It is actually the biggest favour u cud do them :)
 
china white said:
Socrates - many thx!

remember that ancient story about the Book of Dead which was so skillfully played in The Mummy film? The only thing is that the actual story was very different from the film's script. The problem was not finding it. THE BOOK WAS THERE for everyone to read BUT no-one could read it!

What Socrates, Skim and other darksiders are doing here is so to speak opening the eyes for everyone so ppl can start reading it. In all honesty i personally do not think i am the dumbest lad in the world but it took me next to 5 yrs to start seeing things so clearly. Why? ok - i did not have ppl like Socrates or Skim teaching me when I started trading, so I had to keep my eyes open and do ALL the hard work to walk the walk so I cud start talking the talk :) BUT even that is beyond the point believe it or not...... AS ANY OF US i had ego, thought i was a big shot etc..... most importantly thought the markets were essentially what I see them to be. IT IS ONLY AFTER U GET RID OF THAT NOTION essentially changing yourself (because that is engraved in the human nature) THAT U WILL BECOME A PROFESSIONAL TRADER!!!!

And Socrates is putting his sterling effort to make it easier for every1 to undergo that transformation. U've got my utmost respect mate! Not just for the high professionalism, but also for standing up to whip ppl if necessary - this is the only way for them to learn. It is actually the biggest favour u cud do them :)

But the infuriating thing is that they argue, because they think they know better. I sincerely
hope the above I explain I hope in language that anyone who diligently reads will understand serves to clear out some cobwebs !
 
Apropos of recent posts a bit of information for those who may perhaps be losing the thread ;)

"Philosophers such as Plato understood well that to be simply told or exteriorly shown the truth was insufficient. Words, formulas and phenomena were not realities in themselves but only shadows of reality*. Rather, the only possibilty to actually know the truth was to become that truth. From the initial vow, a student entered into a lengthy gestation period in which he assembled in himself the moral, intellectual, and spiritual faculties necessary to sustain him through the difficult trials of the epoptic experience, his birth into the new world of "That which is""

*See a previous post.

a320
Rabelais eh - quotes are difficult on a public site:LOL:

just come across this little gem by Jonathan swift - I'm sure others know it but it seems worthy of repetition
"There is a gulf where thousands fell,
Here all the bold advent'rers came;
A narrow sound tho' deep as hell,
‘Change Alley is the dreadfull name.

Nine times a day it ebbs and flows,
Yet he that on the surface lies,
Without a pilot seldom knows
The time it falls, or when ‘twill rise.

Subscribers here by thousands float,
And jostle one another down,
Each paddling in his leaky boat,
And here they fish for gold and drown.

Now buried in the depths below,
Now mounted up to heaven again,
They reel and stagger to and fro,
At their wits' end, like drunken men.

Meantime, secure on Garraway cliffs,
A savage race, by shipwrecks fed,
Lie waiting for the foundered skiffs,
And strip the bodies of the dead"

all good stuff
 
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Quick note here. I am geeting called lucky sometimes because I had 4+ yrs of trading experience on various floors :LOL: Let me clarify it here - YES and NO at the same time :)

yes because i learnt the basic rules of trading, communicating with ppl, floor dynamics, basic camaraderie without which u can't survive on the floor, also learnt to keep the gob shut and learn when u don't know but firmly stand for your trade when u can back it up to the end.... all those simple things most ppl cannot do sadly :( (this is btw the reason why i cannot stand rudeness and slagging off that unfortunately sometimes oozes out on T2W threads)

no because i NEVER really examined volume-price inter dynamics! for me volume was just the moment of time when 20 phone lines start ringing at the same time - and when clients on 18 lines are shipping out 50% of daily volume and only 2 clients are shipping in 5% of daily volume, u don't really need to analyse anything do u? :D

Dark side made me think and learn. And for that I am honoured to be part of this discussion.
 
Yes China very well put, but of course we have had the experience of this sudden bedlam. In my day the desks were fitted with light banks. All of a sudden all the lights from all the big institutions which had direct lines to the dealing box on the floor of the exchange began to flash at the same time. At times like these one wished to have many pairs of ears, hands and lots of tongues to cope with it all. Multitasking at the limit cannot adequately describe it. And it seemed that as if that was not enough the pressure began to mount as more calls came in, absolute bedlam. Either this, or the crush on the floor. You have to live it to experience it, and when you have, you can never forget it. And through all this pressure I can never remember any discourtesy ~ Impatience, ugency, tension, fear, responsibility, stress, and everything you like, but rudeness, never. It was not uncommon to have to walk anything between 5 or 6 miles a day on the trading floor, and I remember many occasions on which the suit I wore was so drenched with perspiration you could almost wring it. And in those days of stiff collars and chalk stripes there were rules of conduct that were unspoken, with a well structured pecking order of seniority, and so on. And shoes had laces, and trousers had braces, and ties were quiet. Anyone who transgressed and wore a loud tie had it snipped off. I remember seeing in a corner of the exchange near the Throgmorton Street Exit, a large pin board about the size of a table tennis table to which were pinned many ties that had been snipped. This is not so long ago, only 30 years ago. But we have to realise nowadays many things are different. Modernity brings change. Many of the subscribers to this website are youngsters, and were probably toddlers while what I describe above was the standard. But I agree with you that bad manners, disrespect and rudeness cannot and will not be tolerated, and I support you all the way on this.
 
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Ah ! And don't forget, this was much before BIg Bang, and we were not paid very much, and never complained as we accepted we went there to learn, about the profession, about the market, about
our clients, about ourselves as we considered all of it an apprenticeship for what is ultimately
the correct conduct for a financier. And I have here on the ceiling of the Star Chamber an original pay slip from those days. Today you would be pushed to be able to buy two pairs of socks with it. But as you say if you pay attention, what you learn is ultimately priceless.
 
LOL Socrates.... I started trading pro early 1999 at Kleinworts, we already had some strange coloured ties on the frenchies then, say nothing abt the germans wearing different colour trousers and jackets.... :) ridiculed extensively by the lot from E18 sort of post codes - but since Kleiworts was already swallowed by Dresdner, there was not much we cud do abt that..... :(

2000 - right after failed "merger" with DB, it became all casual.... u shud've seen the 1st week after that. All frenchies immediated turned up in their Lacoste shirts, whilst the cash side stuck to suits and ties - a form of subtle protest against an established UK institution (Kleinwort Benson) being wangled about in euro games..... still some time passed by and..... well by that time Kleinworts had much bigger probs than cockney tantrums.... :)
 
china white said:
LOL Socrates.... I started trading pro early 1999 at Kleinworts, we already had some strange coloured ties on the frenchies then, say nothing abt the germans wearing different colour trousers and jackets.... :) ridiculed extensively by the lot from E18 sort of post codes - but since Kleiworts was already swallowed by Dresdner, there was not much we cud do abt that..... :(

2000 - right after failed "merger" with DB, it became all casual.... u shud've seen the 1st week after that. All frenchies immediated turned up in their Lacoste shirts, whilst the cash side stuck to suits and ties - a form of subtle protest against an established UK institution (Kleinwort Benson) being wangled about in euro games..... still some time passed by and..... well by that time Kleinworts had much bigger probs than cockney tantrums.... :)

Well you see you caught the sunset of the stiff collar brigade, I had to live through it.
In fact you have now jogged my memory. There was an old boy who used to come
in every morning, and for the life of me I cannot remember his name, same uniform
every day, Grey suit, Bowler Hat, Umbrella, a Buttonhole, and Spats !
 
Oh ! By the way have you ever had to wear a stiff collar on a daily basis ?
A starched collar is attached to the shirt with two studs, one at the front and one at the back of the neck.
I still have them in a small leather box, they are made of ivory.
For many years after having given up having to wear starched collars,
I still had a dimple on the back of my neck.
The collarless shirt by Van Heusen, the collar by Stanley Ley of Holborn, London.
And Cufflinks, and Tiepin, and Braces, and Black Brogues, Clan Mc Donald were the best.
"You want a heavy shoe in the market, young man, nothing else suffices"....
This will ring bells with elderly gentlemen.
 
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never on the floor mate - but since i was an OTC lad initially I had to meet up with a cupl of elderly gents who were clients - and i had to wear a stiff collar on a cupl of occasions..... imagine coming out of the meeting and taking central line from bank dressed up like that these days...... :)
 
Yes, but it saved on laundry - you could change the collar every day - the shirt only when necessary!
 
china white said:
never on the floor mate - but since i was an OTC lad initially I had to meet up with a cupl of elderly gents who were clients - and i had to wear a stiff collar on a cupl of occasions..... imagine coming out of the meeting and taking central line from bank dressed up like that these days...... :)

China, you used the Central Line, so did I. I used to live in South Kensington. First the Piccadilly Line to Holborn, and then change at Holborn for Bank.
There were several of us who travelled every morning on the same train, same time,
same carriage, the fourth from the front, because when the doors opened at Bank.
the carriage was bang opposite the arch leading to the escalator. We were able to get
to the exit before anybody else. Did you master the same trick ?
 
Oh ! And opposite the main entrance to the Old Lady, in Threadneedle Street, there used to be a sandwich bar, which I believe is still there, next to a tobbaconist. On that side of the pavement,
there was a huge dip in the gutter, and on rainy days it filled up to the brim with water.
We used to take wicked delight in taking bets as to which passer by would be the next to get
drenched by a passing vehicle, all this viewed from the safety of the other side, under the columns
of the Bank of England. In those days, the Bank of England had Grenadier Guards posted in sentry
boxes. I remember clearly that there was one in Bartholomew Lane, opposite the exit to the exchange
and beside (to the left) of the side entrance to the bank.The prettiest girls were on the top floor, and we arranged dates by "semaphore". Great fun !
 
South Ken??? I High Str Ken in my case :) lived there for a year or so, in Vicarage Gate with my ex-g/f before i went down to Brasil for a week or so and came back 5 weeks later pretending I i broke my toe playing football on Copacabana beach so i cud not come back any earlier :) - she rumbled me and I had to run to Holland Park..... :)
 
china white said:
South Ken??? I High Str Ken in my case :) lived there for a year or so, in Vicarage Gate with my ex-g/f before i went down to Brasil for a week or so and came back 5 weeks later pretending I i broke my toe playing football on Copacabana beach so i cud not come back any earlier :) - she rumbled me and I had to run to Holland Park..... :)

I know Vicarage Gate very well, I lived in Emperor's Gate, behind the West London Air Terminal,
my next door neighbour was James Galway the famous flautist, when he was single, and the Beatles once had a flat six doors away. The Gate was always filled with swooning, screeching
girls, and on one occasion, Ringo and Co., had to jump across the roofs to get away.
They had a mini, and later on a Rolls Royce covered with white dots, I think. And then they
really hit the big time, and moved.
 
speaking of which..... :)

that bar u mentioned must be where Pitcher & Piano is at the mo.....btw, I recall last march (2003) had a nice **** up with my mate from x-Kleinworts there, I just came back from South America again, and he said a golden phrase - "btw u know mate i recall u always wanted to get a Rolls Royce, good car, very good car indeed" - RR.L was trading at 50 pp then.... I just hap'g to get the message :) u c how different trading is when u r on or round the floor...... U just have to be a dark sider to read that book just as well when u hv no access to THOSE tips.... :)
 
btw tell u what the big difference was btwn your times and ours - China White night club was not open yet, so u just HAD to frolic in Cafe de Paris..... :)
 
No, we frolicked at Hatchett's near Green Park, Ha ! Ha! Ha !

This was in the days of Bell Bottoms, Peter Pan collars, Bells, Platforms, and Kipper Ties.
And the girls were "Mary Quanted" ~ minis, white thigh boots and so on.

And in Gloucester Road, at the Lucy Claytons Ladies Finishing School there was an ogre of a caretaker called Bill, that the girls were craftily able to circumvent. They displayed a coded signal if he was out.

An OMO Washing powder carton appeared in a specific window(meaning old man out), this meant the skylight at the roof was open, Ha ! Ha ! Ha!

Fun? You've no idea ! Ha ! Ha! Ha!
 
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