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SOCRATES
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You see....I will come back to this later
Darktone, you are not exactly a dunce.
But you are a very naughty boy,
very mischievous and full of fun,
and always thinking of pranks, and motorbikes,
and other naughty things.
Therefore you don't get a bollicking because we consider you to be entertaining and funny, and a welcome break from the seriousness of what we are in,
in this merciless, relentless War for Profits.
We are pleased to tell you that we have appointed you Official Court Jester
to THE SUPREME COURT OF DARKSIDERS
This appointment is conferred upon you as a mark of our affection and regard ,
and is effective backdated to your last appearance on this thread.
That is all.
Darktone, you are not exactly a dunce.
But you are a very naughty boy,
very mischievous and full of fun,
and always thinking of pranks, and motorbikes,
and other naughty things.
Therefore you don't get a bollicking because we consider you to be entertaining and funny, and a welcome break from the seriousness of what we are in,
in this merciless, relentless War for Profits.
We are pleased to tell you that we have appointed you Official Court Jester
to THE SUPREME COURT OF DARKSIDERS
This appointment is conferred upon you as a mark of our affection and regard ,
and is effective backdated to your last appearance on this thread.
That is all.
Last edited:
SOCRATES
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Of Cruelty and Unworthiness
No Sir, I will not I promise, but as I am very busy with other matters I will expand on this later.
#########################################################################
Right, here goes:~
When as a consequence of unrelenting work both on the markets and on yourself,
you are able to finally crack it,
and you wont know that you have finally cracked it until you "know" you have done so
because this "knowing" is something experiential and so personal that it cannot be
passed on but it is recognised internally and also makes itself manifest to others in
the same league.
This confers upon the holder of this knowledge and abilitiy a great and heavy responsibility.
One of its by products is the ability to assume a benign posture.
Indeed in my circle it is a requirement to be benign.
This does not mean the opposite, that is, the tolerance of nonsense, imperinence, rudeness, disrespect, aggression, argumentative engagement for the sake of it, invalidation, denigaration, mockery or the infliction of embarrassment, but to flatten it immediately because these postures are corrosive and damaging to a trader's mindset, to his psyche, to the trader' s central core, for want of a better description that can be displayed here.
I will now proceed to explain what the assumption of a benign posture really means.
When you finally crack this, you are able to make your money with very little effort, in short
bursts depending upon what strategy you follow, and then the rest of the time is yours.
This means you do not eventually have to be stuck to the screen all day long staring at it
without blinking. It means you have freedom of choice and the ability to execute or not.
The great majority of the population are not in this arena.
This arena would be totally alien to them.
Also they would refuse to understand it because it falls outside their frame of reference to such an extent it is as if it were really alien.
A Star Chamber Keyholder, who incidentally is in the room now, has just reminded me of an experience he had whilst still under continuation. His sister in law came to visit. He did not appear. He was upstairs in his office at the time, following a chart, working, beavering away.
His sister in law (who had been a secretary and had used keyboards and screens) , without knocking, opens the door and puts her head round it and exclaims "OOOH ! Is that all you do ?
His reponse was the correct one. "Yes", he replied, "that is all I do". She went off disappointed and perplexed, but with a smug look on her face.
The lesson here is that this is a war for profits played on a virtual battlefield to which civilians cannot he admitted.
But these civilians play a crucial part in sustaining the infrastructure of capitalism and democracy that permits us to do what we do when we are traders.
In consequence of this all my people undergo training in the topic of being kind to civilians as a matter of policy, as these civilians are on treadmills, whereas we have earned the right to be free. Free in the sense that we are not tied to a 9 ~5 obligation. In exchange for this freedom, we feel obligated not to be unkind to them.
This means we are prepared to give up our place in the queue in the Post Office or the
Supermarket as the use of our time is flexible, but the use of their time is rigid and governed by timetables. This protocol is extended extensively because its practice is also spiritually enriching.
The same courtesy is afforded to Passengers on flights in a hurry, to harassed waiters or waitresses, to little old ladies, to pressed executives, and all other people who are not free like us.
These people are amazed that anyone should give up their space or their priority to help others for no reason.
The reason of course is not one that any of these people (and some of them are very important indeed, very important) can consciously pin.
In fact it sometimes to us has comic implications, since this posture is so unusual that it is misinterpreted as a form of inferiority, or acceptance of inferiority, or acceptance of unimportance, and this to us is a delight, because it tangibly proves to us our invisibility.
This to us is very reassuring for, if the mob were to twig they could have tomorrow' s news today they would stampede, I kid you not, especially if they are devoted worshippers at the temple of the great harlot.
You see we also insist on not showing off. We try very hard to be grey men. This means we do not drive flashy cars or live in mansions. We do not dress to "Savile Row Standard" except when the occasion merits.
We do the opposite of what everybody either aspires to do or what they think ought to be aspired to, as this is a dead giveaway and very dangerous.
As all of this is invisible(?) it is a posture that works very well in not attracting the wrong sort of attention, because who wants to become successful only to be able to venture out accompanied by minders? That must be dreadful !
And so you see it is possible to be benign and that this can even be extended to other traders either beginning or advanced, since no one is born knowing.
We all have to learn, those who are worthy will be helped those who are not will not.
That is all.
bracke said:
No Sir, I will not I promise, but as I am very busy with other matters I will expand on this later.
#########################################################################
Right, here goes:~
When as a consequence of unrelenting work both on the markets and on yourself,
you are able to finally crack it,
and you wont know that you have finally cracked it until you "know" you have done so
because this "knowing" is something experiential and so personal that it cannot be
passed on but it is recognised internally and also makes itself manifest to others in
the same league.
This confers upon the holder of this knowledge and abilitiy a great and heavy responsibility.
One of its by products is the ability to assume a benign posture.
Indeed in my circle it is a requirement to be benign.
This does not mean the opposite, that is, the tolerance of nonsense, imperinence, rudeness, disrespect, aggression, argumentative engagement for the sake of it, invalidation, denigaration, mockery or the infliction of embarrassment, but to flatten it immediately because these postures are corrosive and damaging to a trader's mindset, to his psyche, to the trader' s central core, for want of a better description that can be displayed here.
I will now proceed to explain what the assumption of a benign posture really means.
When you finally crack this, you are able to make your money with very little effort, in short
bursts depending upon what strategy you follow, and then the rest of the time is yours.
This means you do not eventually have to be stuck to the screen all day long staring at it
without blinking. It means you have freedom of choice and the ability to execute or not.
The great majority of the population are not in this arena.
This arena would be totally alien to them.
Also they would refuse to understand it because it falls outside their frame of reference to such an extent it is as if it were really alien.
A Star Chamber Keyholder, who incidentally is in the room now, has just reminded me of an experience he had whilst still under continuation. His sister in law came to visit. He did not appear. He was upstairs in his office at the time, following a chart, working, beavering away.
His sister in law (who had been a secretary and had used keyboards and screens) , without knocking, opens the door and puts her head round it and exclaims "OOOH ! Is that all you do ?
His reponse was the correct one. "Yes", he replied, "that is all I do". She went off disappointed and perplexed, but with a smug look on her face.
The lesson here is that this is a war for profits played on a virtual battlefield to which civilians cannot he admitted.
But these civilians play a crucial part in sustaining the infrastructure of capitalism and democracy that permits us to do what we do when we are traders.
In consequence of this all my people undergo training in the topic of being kind to civilians as a matter of policy, as these civilians are on treadmills, whereas we have earned the right to be free. Free in the sense that we are not tied to a 9 ~5 obligation. In exchange for this freedom, we feel obligated not to be unkind to them.
This means we are prepared to give up our place in the queue in the Post Office or the
Supermarket as the use of our time is flexible, but the use of their time is rigid and governed by timetables. This protocol is extended extensively because its practice is also spiritually enriching.
The same courtesy is afforded to Passengers on flights in a hurry, to harassed waiters or waitresses, to little old ladies, to pressed executives, and all other people who are not free like us.
These people are amazed that anyone should give up their space or their priority to help others for no reason.
The reason of course is not one that any of these people (and some of them are very important indeed, very important) can consciously pin.
In fact it sometimes to us has comic implications, since this posture is so unusual that it is misinterpreted as a form of inferiority, or acceptance of inferiority, or acceptance of unimportance, and this to us is a delight, because it tangibly proves to us our invisibility.
This to us is very reassuring for, if the mob were to twig they could have tomorrow' s news today they would stampede, I kid you not, especially if they are devoted worshippers at the temple of the great harlot.
You see we also insist on not showing off. We try very hard to be grey men. This means we do not drive flashy cars or live in mansions. We do not dress to "Savile Row Standard" except when the occasion merits.
We do the opposite of what everybody either aspires to do or what they think ought to be aspired to, as this is a dead giveaway and very dangerous.
As all of this is invisible(?) it is a posture that works very well in not attracting the wrong sort of attention, because who wants to become successful only to be able to venture out accompanied by minders? That must be dreadful !
And so you see it is possible to be benign and that this can even be extended to other traders either beginning or advanced, since no one is born knowing.
We all have to learn, those who are worthy will be helped those who are not will not.
That is all.
Last edited:
SOCRATES
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harryp said:
I am not pompous. But I am very sure of my ground, and when I make a statement,
I can back it up to the end. However you are not in this league at all, and that's the difference.
So the less you say the better it is.Better still, it would be better for all of us for you to say nothing at all here and for you to go and continue to be a serial nuisance elswhere.
We darksiders are only interested in the pursuit of excellence,and not what you can offer,
which repeatedly proves to be the opposite to what engages our focus and effort.
There you have it. I am sure I have the support of all the constructive contributors to this thread,
I must comment , many who are turning out posts of the highest quality on this website.
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SOCRATES
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The significance of the Obvious
What is the significance of Animal Lesson, part 1 and part 2 ?
I have been busy with other matters anyway but I decided to wait to see what private responses were forthcoming. I am pleased that No 1 has been of great use to several of you and of assistance in switching on lightbulbs.
All this is about heightening awareness and stimulating realisations. If the message is delivered obliquely and if you are ready for the information the lightbulb will go on. If you are not ready it will stay off. Your own state of readiness will choose you , and not you it.
The true nature of darksiding is such that accomplised darksiders are able to look at a situation and come to correct conclusions in seconds having been provided only with the most basic information whereas everyone else remains baffled or undecided or both.
This in itself is a problem, because non darkside observers observe the result but cannot get to grips how it is that someone looking at the same information can arrive at often the opposite conclusion and what is most infuriating to them is that the mental process is invisible or when explained, does not satisfy their preconceived frames of reference. This leads to a conditional response we shall call from now on "HP sauce".
Darksidsers are averse to HP Sauce, when this clumsy opaque condiment appears, it further reinforces the notion that darksiding is not for everyone, certainly for only a few, with the consequence that everybody clams up suddenly in public, but a hive of activity develops via private messaging.
This is because the most important distinguishing ability that darksiders have is to set off their own lightbulbs at will.
This occurs because the true darksiding mind is not hampered by constraints.
Thus the more a chart is complicated by constraints the greater the inability of the observer to set off lightbulbs.
This is because the observer is led to subliminally assume or believe that the indicators are capable of replacing intuition. Intuition is not guesswork, but the result of allowing the mind to free float without constraints. Therefore we could liken indicators to a harness. The more indicators present, the less space the mind is allowed to free float in. It therefore means that the use of indicators through what appears to be the excercise of choice actually succeeds in achieving the opposite.
Another effect at the same time contains two suggestions being that on the one hand the indicator does the work and therefore the mind is exonerated from putting its attention on what is required and the other suggestion simply is that nothing further is needed. In terms of developing cognizance first and intuition second.
This is a disaster, yet all these artificial routes are promoted freely. What I find amazing is the reluctance of 99.5% of the audience to stop persisting with these artificial mechanical constraints in favour of free float even after realisations may have landed. Perhaps not enough of them have landed.
These Animal Lessons are offered to see if they are able through the use of parables and allegories to stimulate an improvement in awareness, to tilt towards free float and intuition and away from what is mechanical and harnessed or constrained. Let us see if further headway can be made.
What is the significance of Animal Lesson, part 1 and part 2 ?
I have been busy with other matters anyway but I decided to wait to see what private responses were forthcoming. I am pleased that No 1 has been of great use to several of you and of assistance in switching on lightbulbs.
All this is about heightening awareness and stimulating realisations. If the message is delivered obliquely and if you are ready for the information the lightbulb will go on. If you are not ready it will stay off. Your own state of readiness will choose you , and not you it.
The true nature of darksiding is such that accomplised darksiders are able to look at a situation and come to correct conclusions in seconds having been provided only with the most basic information whereas everyone else remains baffled or undecided or both.
This in itself is a problem, because non darkside observers observe the result but cannot get to grips how it is that someone looking at the same information can arrive at often the opposite conclusion and what is most infuriating to them is that the mental process is invisible or when explained, does not satisfy their preconceived frames of reference. This leads to a conditional response we shall call from now on "HP sauce".
Darksidsers are averse to HP Sauce, when this clumsy opaque condiment appears, it further reinforces the notion that darksiding is not for everyone, certainly for only a few, with the consequence that everybody clams up suddenly in public, but a hive of activity develops via private messaging.
This is because the most important distinguishing ability that darksiders have is to set off their own lightbulbs at will.
This occurs because the true darksiding mind is not hampered by constraints.
Thus the more a chart is complicated by constraints the greater the inability of the observer to set off lightbulbs.
This is because the observer is led to subliminally assume or believe that the indicators are capable of replacing intuition. Intuition is not guesswork, but the result of allowing the mind to free float without constraints. Therefore we could liken indicators to a harness. The more indicators present, the less space the mind is allowed to free float in. It therefore means that the use of indicators through what appears to be the excercise of choice actually succeeds in achieving the opposite.
Another effect at the same time contains two suggestions being that on the one hand the indicator does the work and therefore the mind is exonerated from putting its attention on what is required and the other suggestion simply is that nothing further is needed. In terms of developing cognizance first and intuition second.
This is a disaster, yet all these artificial routes are promoted freely. What I find amazing is the reluctance of 99.5% of the audience to stop persisting with these artificial mechanical constraints in favour of free float even after realisations may have landed. Perhaps not enough of them have landed.
These Animal Lessons are offered to see if they are able through the use of parables and allegories to stimulate an improvement in awareness, to tilt towards free float and intuition and away from what is mechanical and harnessed or constrained. Let us see if further headway can be made.
Last edited:
SOCRATES
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Very Imporatant Lessons for All Traders, What are They ?
ANIMAL LESSON NUMBER TWO:~
The Court of the King and Queen of Hearts,
an extract from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland,
by Lewis Carroll.
I Quote:~
When the procession came opposite to Alice, they all stopped and looked at her, and the Queen said, severely, "Who is this?" She said it to the Knave of Hearts, who only bowed and
smiled in reply.
"Idiot" said the Queen, tossing her head impatiently; and, turning to Alice, she went on:"What is your name, child?"
"My name is Alice, so please your Majesty," said Alice very politely; but she added to herself,
"Why, they are only a pack of cards, after all. I needn't be afraid of them!"
"And who are these?" said the Queen, pointing to the three gardeners who were lying around
the rose - tree; for you see, as they were lying on their faces, and the pattern on their backs was the same as the rest of the pack, she could not tell whether they were gardeners, or soldiers, or courtiers, or three of her own children.
"how should I know?" said Alice, surprised at her own courage. "it is no business of mine".
The Queen turned crimson with fury, and, after glaring at her for a moment like a wild beast, began screaming, "Off with her Head!". "Off -
"Nonsense!" said Alice, very loudly and deciedly, and the Queen was silent.
The King laid his hand upon her arm, and timidly said, "Consider, my dear, she is only a child!".
The Queen turned angrily away from him, and said to the Knave "Turn them over!".
The Knave did so, very carefully with one foot.
"Get up!" said the Queen in a shrill, loud voice, and the three gardeners instantly jumped up , and began bowing to the King, the Queen, the royal children, adn everybody else.
"Leave off that!" screamed the Queen. "You make me giddy". And then, turning to the rose-tree,
she went on, "What have you been doing here?"
"May it please your Majesty", said Two, in a very humble tone, going down on one knee as he spoke, "we were trying ---"
"I see ! " said the Queen, who had meanwhile been examining the roses. "off with their heads!" and the procession moved on, three of the soldiers remaining behind to execute the unfortunate gardeners, who ran to Alice for protection.
"You shan't be beheaded!" said Alice, and she put them into a large flower-pot that stood near. The three soldiers wandered about for a minute or two, looking for them, and then quietly marched off after the others.
"Are their heads off?" shouted the Queen.
"Their heads are gone, if it please your Majesty!" the soldiers shouted in reply.
"That's right!" shouted the Queen. "Can you play croquet ?"
The soldiers were silent, and looked at Alice, as the question was evidently meant for her.
"Yes!" shouted Alice.
"Come on then!" roared the Queen, and Alice joined the procession, wondering very much what would happen next. "Its--- its a very fine day!" said a timid voice at her side.
She was walking by the White Rabbit, who was peeping anxiously into her face.
"Very!" said Alice, "Where's the Duchess?"
"Hush! Hush !" said the Rabbit in a low, hurried tone.
He looked anxiously over his shoulder as he spoke, and then raised himself upon tiptoe,
put his mouth close to her ear and whispered, "She is under sentence of execution."
"What for?"
"She boxed the Queen's ears---" the Rabbit began. Alice gave a little scream of laughter. "Oh Hush!" The Rabbit whispered in a frightened tone. "The Queen will hear you! You see, she came rather late, and the Queen said---"
"Go to your places!" shouted the Queen in a voice of thunder, and people began running about in all directions, tumbling up against each other; however, they got settled down in a minute or two, and the game began.
Alice thought she had never seen such a curious croquet-ground in her life; it was all ridges and furrows; the croquet balls were live hedgehogs, and the mallets live flamingoes, and the
soldiers had to double themselves up and stand on their hands and feet, to make the arches.
The chief difficulty Alice found at first was in managing her flamingo; she succeeded in getting its body tucked away, comforatbly enough, under her arm, with its legs hanging down, but generally, just as she had got its neck nicely straightened out, and was going to give the hedgehog a blow with its head, it would twist itself round and look up in her face, with such a
puzzled expression that she could not help bursting out laughing; and, when she had got its head down, and was going to begin again, it was very provoking to find that the hedgehog had unrolled itself , and was in the act of crawling away; besides all this, there was generally a ridge or a furrow in the way wherever she wanted to send the hedgehog to, and, as the doubled -up soldiers were always getting up and walking off to other parts of the ground, Alice soon came to the conclusion that it was a very difficult game indeed.
The players all played at once, without waiting for turns, quarrelling all the while, and fighting for the hedgehogs; and, in a very short time the Queen was in a furious passion, and went stamping about, and shouting, "Off with his head!" or "Off with her head!" about once a minute.
Alice began to feel very uneasy: to be sure, she had not as yet had any dispute with the Queen,
but she knew that it might happen any minute, "and then", thought she, "what would become of me?"
They are dreadfully fond of beheading people here: the great wonder is , that there is anyone left alive!"
ANIMAL LESSON NUMBER TWO:~
The Court of the King and Queen of Hearts,
an extract from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland,
by Lewis Carroll.
I Quote:~
When the procession came opposite to Alice, they all stopped and looked at her, and the Queen said, severely, "Who is this?" She said it to the Knave of Hearts, who only bowed and
smiled in reply.
"Idiot" said the Queen, tossing her head impatiently; and, turning to Alice, she went on:"What is your name, child?"
"My name is Alice, so please your Majesty," said Alice very politely; but she added to herself,
"Why, they are only a pack of cards, after all. I needn't be afraid of them!"
"And who are these?" said the Queen, pointing to the three gardeners who were lying around
the rose - tree; for you see, as they were lying on their faces, and the pattern on their backs was the same as the rest of the pack, she could not tell whether they were gardeners, or soldiers, or courtiers, or three of her own children.
"how should I know?" said Alice, surprised at her own courage. "it is no business of mine".
The Queen turned crimson with fury, and, after glaring at her for a moment like a wild beast, began screaming, "Off with her Head!". "Off -
"Nonsense!" said Alice, very loudly and deciedly, and the Queen was silent.
The King laid his hand upon her arm, and timidly said, "Consider, my dear, she is only a child!".
The Queen turned angrily away from him, and said to the Knave "Turn them over!".
The Knave did so, very carefully with one foot.
"Get up!" said the Queen in a shrill, loud voice, and the three gardeners instantly jumped up , and began bowing to the King, the Queen, the royal children, adn everybody else.
"Leave off that!" screamed the Queen. "You make me giddy". And then, turning to the rose-tree,
she went on, "What have you been doing here?"
"May it please your Majesty", said Two, in a very humble tone, going down on one knee as he spoke, "we were trying ---"
"I see ! " said the Queen, who had meanwhile been examining the roses. "off with their heads!" and the procession moved on, three of the soldiers remaining behind to execute the unfortunate gardeners, who ran to Alice for protection.
"You shan't be beheaded!" said Alice, and she put them into a large flower-pot that stood near. The three soldiers wandered about for a minute or two, looking for them, and then quietly marched off after the others.
"Are their heads off?" shouted the Queen.
"Their heads are gone, if it please your Majesty!" the soldiers shouted in reply.
"That's right!" shouted the Queen. "Can you play croquet ?"
The soldiers were silent, and looked at Alice, as the question was evidently meant for her.
"Yes!" shouted Alice.
"Come on then!" roared the Queen, and Alice joined the procession, wondering very much what would happen next. "Its--- its a very fine day!" said a timid voice at her side.
She was walking by the White Rabbit, who was peeping anxiously into her face.
"Very!" said Alice, "Where's the Duchess?"
"Hush! Hush !" said the Rabbit in a low, hurried tone.
He looked anxiously over his shoulder as he spoke, and then raised himself upon tiptoe,
put his mouth close to her ear and whispered, "She is under sentence of execution."
"What for?"
"She boxed the Queen's ears---" the Rabbit began. Alice gave a little scream of laughter. "Oh Hush!" The Rabbit whispered in a frightened tone. "The Queen will hear you! You see, she came rather late, and the Queen said---"
"Go to your places!" shouted the Queen in a voice of thunder, and people began running about in all directions, tumbling up against each other; however, they got settled down in a minute or two, and the game began.
Alice thought she had never seen such a curious croquet-ground in her life; it was all ridges and furrows; the croquet balls were live hedgehogs, and the mallets live flamingoes, and the
soldiers had to double themselves up and stand on their hands and feet, to make the arches.
The chief difficulty Alice found at first was in managing her flamingo; she succeeded in getting its body tucked away, comforatbly enough, under her arm, with its legs hanging down, but generally, just as she had got its neck nicely straightened out, and was going to give the hedgehog a blow with its head, it would twist itself round and look up in her face, with such a
puzzled expression that she could not help bursting out laughing; and, when she had got its head down, and was going to begin again, it was very provoking to find that the hedgehog had unrolled itself , and was in the act of crawling away; besides all this, there was generally a ridge or a furrow in the way wherever she wanted to send the hedgehog to, and, as the doubled -up soldiers were always getting up and walking off to other parts of the ground, Alice soon came to the conclusion that it was a very difficult game indeed.
The players all played at once, without waiting for turns, quarrelling all the while, and fighting for the hedgehogs; and, in a very short time the Queen was in a furious passion, and went stamping about, and shouting, "Off with his head!" or "Off with her head!" about once a minute.
Alice began to feel very uneasy: to be sure, she had not as yet had any dispute with the Queen,
but she knew that it might happen any minute, "and then", thought she, "what would become of me?"
They are dreadfully fond of beheading people here: the great wonder is , that there is anyone left alive!"
Last edited:
SOCRATES
"Darksidsers are averse to HP Sauce, when this clumsy opaque condiment appears, it further reinforces the notion that darksiding is not for everyone, certainly for only a few, with the consequence that everybody clams up suddenly in public, but a hive of activity develops via private messaging."
"This is because the most important distinguishing ability that darksiders have is to set off their own lightbulbs at will."
Why does everbody clam up? Is it because they are not confident of their knowledge in this area and do not wish to post on a public board and be thought silly or is it some form of elitist behaviour.
If it is the former I say let them post, there are plenty of people reading this thread who are in the same situation; if it is the latter then it is a great shame as I thought that the idea of these threads was to exchange ideas so that all may participate and learn.
It is much to the credit of china white that he is prepared to post his analysis for all to see and comment on.
If ALL viewers of this thread are to learn then please lets have less private messaging and more open comment, anaysis and debate.
Light bulbs at the ready, just need a flow of power to brighten them.
Regards
bracke
"Darksidsers are averse to HP Sauce, when this clumsy opaque condiment appears, it further reinforces the notion that darksiding is not for everyone, certainly for only a few, with the consequence that everybody clams up suddenly in public, but a hive of activity develops via private messaging."
"This is because the most important distinguishing ability that darksiders have is to set off their own lightbulbs at will."
Why does everbody clam up? Is it because they are not confident of their knowledge in this area and do not wish to post on a public board and be thought silly or is it some form of elitist behaviour.
If it is the former I say let them post, there are plenty of people reading this thread who are in the same situation; if it is the latter then it is a great shame as I thought that the idea of these threads was to exchange ideas so that all may participate and learn.
It is much to the credit of china white that he is prepared to post his analysis for all to see and comment on.
If ALL viewers of this thread are to learn then please lets have less private messaging and more open comment, anaysis and debate.
Light bulbs at the ready, just need a flow of power to brighten them.
Regards
bracke
Rognvald
Established member
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- Likes
- 15
I think that serious students here will be aiming for a conditioned (rather than a conditional) response.
One dictionary definition of intuition is:-
"The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition."
and of debate:-
"To consider something; to deliberate. - To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
Obsolete. To fight or quarrel."
Regrettably too many of us seem to opt for the obsolete definition
and of study:-
"The pursuit of knowledge, as by reading, observation, or research"
- perhaps there should be more of this activity.undertaken in an open minded way
"The more indicators present, the less space the mind is allowed to free float in. It therefore means that the use of indicators through what appears to be the excercise of choice actually succeeds in achieving the opposite. "
One dictionary definition of intuition is:-
"The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes; immediate cognition."
and of debate:-
"To consider something; to deliberate. - To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
Obsolete. To fight or quarrel."
Regrettably too many of us seem to opt for the obsolete definition
and of study:-
"The pursuit of knowledge, as by reading, observation, or research"
- perhaps there should be more of this activity.undertaken in an open minded way
"The more indicators present, the less space the mind is allowed to free float in. It therefore means that the use of indicators through what appears to be the excercise of choice actually succeeds in achieving the opposite. "
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SOCRATES
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bracke said:
Dear Bracke,
You can appreciate that putting up all these lengthy posts constitutes a lot of work for me that I am pleased to present to an audience and I assure you it takes some effort.. And I am happy to do it, because I know all of you need to progress.
The problem with trading is that most people are able to take this topic so far and full stop.
What prevents nearly everyone from developing the topic further is the consequence of the presence of what appear to be shortcuts and easy solutions.
These shortcuts and easy solutions actually prevent people from carrying out the judgements they need to carry out from a point of view of untainted impartiality in abstact mode, that is inside their heads.
This ability to do this equivalent of "multi dimensional mental arithmetic" is what the majority do not cultivate as they do not perceive it as necessary.
It is what darksiders do that differntiate them from signal followers and indicator reliants.
I am doing my best to try to raise the general awareness of the audience in order for them to have realisations. These realisations have no value unless they are meanigful to the people experiencing them.But hey have to have these realisations themselves in order to enrich their understanding first of what they are in and secondly about themselves.
Therefore these realisations are very very personal. They are triggered off by ideas. The ideas cannot be bluntly overt, as this negates the object. The ideas have to be planted in such a way that they trigger off realisations which are likely to develop in chain reaction mode to further ideas to trigger off further realisations.
I cannot and will not do it for the audience.
That is why these Animal Lessons have catalytic qualities and the idea is for the audience to read carefully and discuss what it is that they trigger in them as ideas.
But if the audience is so enslaved to the idea that doing this kind of excercise is not neccessary as a consequence of indicators being there to do the indicating, well, it does not matter how hard I may try, but the realisations are not forthcoming if ideas are not explored, examined, considered, thought of, questioned, reconstructed, rearraged, modified , applied, reworked, conceptualised and so on.
I have given the raw material, now you have to do the work.
The work is converting an abstract concept into a tangible reality, the effort that must be applied to this work is thought. Applied Thought, that is, and plenty of it.
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Rognvald
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I hope this is a starting point for some discussion. Socrates will tell me if I am on the right track I'm sure
One view of “Alice” and her interaction with the court (particularly the Queen) is that it is an allegory of the world of chance and determinism.
The philosophical doctrine of determinism states that every state of affairs, including every human event, act, and decision is the inevitable consequence of antecedent states of affairs.
One definition of chance is “the likelihood of something happening; the possibility or probability."
Another view is that it is a parallel with Plato’s Allegory of the cave – can anyone really be sure that the world they are apparently experiencing is the real world or just a shadow of the real world cast on the cave wall.
These allegories can be applied to the markets and the players in the markets
One view of the Queen is that “In her mind there is no distinction between what is true and what is false, what is a crime and what is mere folly or mistake. She does not understand what is happening around her, so she chooses simply to punish what is beyond her and keep things at her intellectual level”. “She is a tyrant whose main fiat is “off with his head””.
What does the queen most closely represent?
In the market who most closely represents the three gardeners?
Why is it that Alice did not lose her head?
Why is the duchess under sentence of execution?
What parallels do you see between the markets and
"Go to your places!" shouted the Queen in a voice of thunder, and people began running about in all directions, tumbling up against each other; however, they got settled down in a minute or two, and the game began” ??
and with this
“Alice thought she had never seen such a curious croquet-ground in her life; it was all ridges and furrows; the croquet balls were live hedgehogs, and the mallets live flamingos, and the soldiers had to double themselves up and stand on their hands and feet, to make the arches.”
One view of “Alice” and her interaction with the court (particularly the Queen) is that it is an allegory of the world of chance and determinism.
The philosophical doctrine of determinism states that every state of affairs, including every human event, act, and decision is the inevitable consequence of antecedent states of affairs.
One definition of chance is “the likelihood of something happening; the possibility or probability."
Another view is that it is a parallel with Plato’s Allegory of the cave – can anyone really be sure that the world they are apparently experiencing is the real world or just a shadow of the real world cast on the cave wall.
These allegories can be applied to the markets and the players in the markets
One view of the Queen is that “In her mind there is no distinction between what is true and what is false, what is a crime and what is mere folly or mistake. She does not understand what is happening around her, so she chooses simply to punish what is beyond her and keep things at her intellectual level”. “She is a tyrant whose main fiat is “off with his head””.
What does the queen most closely represent?
In the market who most closely represents the three gardeners?
Why is it that Alice did not lose her head?
Why is the duchess under sentence of execution?
What parallels do you see between the markets and
"Go to your places!" shouted the Queen in a voice of thunder, and people began running about in all directions, tumbling up against each other; however, they got settled down in a minute or two, and the game began” ??
and with this
“Alice thought she had never seen such a curious croquet-ground in her life; it was all ridges and furrows; the croquet balls were live hedgehogs, and the mallets live flamingos, and the soldiers had to double themselves up and stand on their hands and feet, to make the arches.”
Rognvald
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It has been pointed out to me that my post yesterday in response to Socrates extract from Lewis Carroll is not readable due to it being in such small font. I don't understand this as I used a larger font than normal and it is ok on my screen.
I would like to get some discussion going on this and so am repeating it now in hopefully a readable form. If for no other reason than it took me a little time to prepare
"I hope this is a starting point for some discussion. Socrates will tell me if I am on the right track I'm sure
One view of “Alice” and her interaction with the court (particularly the Queen) is that it is an allegory of the world of chance and determinism.
The philosophical doctrine of determinism states that every state of affairs, including every human event, act, and decision is the inevitable consequence of antecedent states of affairs.
One definition of chance is “the likelihood of something happening; the possibility or probability."
Another view is that it is a parallel with Plato’s Allegory of the cave – can anyone really be sure that the world they are apparently experiencing is the real world or just a shadow of the real world cast on the cave wall.
These allegories can be applied to the markets and the players in the markets
One view of the Queen is that “In her mind there is no distinction between what is true and what is false, what is a crime and what is mere folly or mistake. She does not understand what is happening around her, so she chooses simply to punish what is beyond her and keep things at her intellectual level”. “She is a tyrant whose main fiat is “off with his head””.
What does the queen most closely represent?
In the market who most closely represents the three gardeners?
Why is it that Alice did not lose her head?
Why is the duchess under sentence of execution?
What parallels do you see between the markets and
"Go to your places!" shouted the Queen in a voice of thunder, and people began running about in all directions, tumbling up against each other; however, they got settled down in a minute or two, and the game began” ??
and with this
“Alice thought she had never seen such a curious croquet-ground in her life; it was all ridges and furrows; the croquet balls were live hedgehogs, and the mallets live flamingos, and the soldiers had to double themselves up and stand on their hands and feet, to make the arches.”"
I would like to get some discussion going on this and so am repeating it now in hopefully a readable form. If for no other reason than it took me a little time to prepare
"I hope this is a starting point for some discussion. Socrates will tell me if I am on the right track I'm sure
One view of “Alice” and her interaction with the court (particularly the Queen) is that it is an allegory of the world of chance and determinism.
The philosophical doctrine of determinism states that every state of affairs, including every human event, act, and decision is the inevitable consequence of antecedent states of affairs.
One definition of chance is “the likelihood of something happening; the possibility or probability."
Another view is that it is a parallel with Plato’s Allegory of the cave – can anyone really be sure that the world they are apparently experiencing is the real world or just a shadow of the real world cast on the cave wall.
These allegories can be applied to the markets and the players in the markets
One view of the Queen is that “In her mind there is no distinction between what is true and what is false, what is a crime and what is mere folly or mistake. She does not understand what is happening around her, so she chooses simply to punish what is beyond her and keep things at her intellectual level”. “She is a tyrant whose main fiat is “off with his head””.
What does the queen most closely represent?
In the market who most closely represents the three gardeners?
Why is it that Alice did not lose her head?
Why is the duchess under sentence of execution?
What parallels do you see between the markets and
"Go to your places!" shouted the Queen in a voice of thunder, and people began running about in all directions, tumbling up against each other; however, they got settled down in a minute or two, and the game began” ??
and with this
“Alice thought she had never seen such a curious croquet-ground in her life; it was all ridges and furrows; the croquet balls were live hedgehogs, and the mallets live flamingos, and the soldiers had to double themselves up and stand on their hands and feet, to make the arches.”"
SOCRATES
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Rognvald said:Getting back to the allegory and trying hard not to concentrate too much on candles it might in general terms seem from what has been said that that bulls prefer shaven bottoms
Yes, keep prodding, let us see if something develops to induce..........those on the balcony to step forward and give us a sign that will identify them as the truly enlightened ones, whose
admittance to the darkside fraternity we seek.
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Rognvald
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Cause and Effect
"The opinion has a natural propensity to focus and lock on to the outcome, but not the cause."
The following may be a helpful amplification of some of the things Socrates was saying
"
Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:
1. A and B regularly occur together.
2. Therefore A is the cause of B.
This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.
This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.
In some cases it will be evident that the fallacy is being committed. For example, a person might claim that an illness was caused by a person getting a fever. In this case, it would be quite clear that the fever was caused by illness and not the other way around. In other cases, the fallacy is not always evident. One factor that makes causal reasoning quite difficult is that it is not always evident what is the cause and what is the effect. For example, a problem child might be the cause of the parents being short tempered or the short temper of the parents might be the cause of the child being problematic. The difficulty is increased by the fact that some situations might involve feedback. For example, the parents' temper might cause the child to become problematic and the child's behavior could worsen the parents' temper. In such cases it could be rather difficult to sort out what caused what in the first place.
In order to determine that the fallacy has been committed, it must be shown that the causal conclusion has not been adequately supported and that the person committing the fallacy has confused the actual cause with the effect. Showing that the fallacy has been committed will typically involve determining the actual cause and the actual effect. In some cases, as noted above, this can be quite easy. In other cases it will be difficult. In some cases, it might be almost impossible. Another thing that makes causal reasoning difficult is that people often have very different conceptions of cause and, in some cases, the issues are clouded by emotions and ideologies. For example, people often claim violence on TV and in movies must be censored because it causes people to like violence. Other people claim that there is violence on TV and in movies because people like violence. In this case, it is not obvious what the cause really is and the issue is clouded by the fact that emotions often run high on this issue.
While causal reasoning can be difficult, many errors can be avoided with due care and careful testing procedures. This is due to the fact that the fallacy arises because the conclusion is drawn without due care. One way to avoid the fallacy is to pay careful attention to the temporal sequence of events. Since (outside of Star Trek), effects do not generally precede their causes, if A occurs after B, then A cannot be the cause of B"
"The opinion has a natural propensity to focus and lock on to the outcome, but not the cause."
The following may be a helpful amplification of some of the things Socrates was saying
"
Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:
1. A and B regularly occur together.
2. Therefore A is the cause of B.
This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.
This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.
In some cases it will be evident that the fallacy is being committed. For example, a person might claim that an illness was caused by a person getting a fever. In this case, it would be quite clear that the fever was caused by illness and not the other way around. In other cases, the fallacy is not always evident. One factor that makes causal reasoning quite difficult is that it is not always evident what is the cause and what is the effect. For example, a problem child might be the cause of the parents being short tempered or the short temper of the parents might be the cause of the child being problematic. The difficulty is increased by the fact that some situations might involve feedback. For example, the parents' temper might cause the child to become problematic and the child's behavior could worsen the parents' temper. In such cases it could be rather difficult to sort out what caused what in the first place.
In order to determine that the fallacy has been committed, it must be shown that the causal conclusion has not been adequately supported and that the person committing the fallacy has confused the actual cause with the effect. Showing that the fallacy has been committed will typically involve determining the actual cause and the actual effect. In some cases, as noted above, this can be quite easy. In other cases it will be difficult. In some cases, it might be almost impossible. Another thing that makes causal reasoning difficult is that people often have very different conceptions of cause and, in some cases, the issues are clouded by emotions and ideologies. For example, people often claim violence on TV and in movies must be censored because it causes people to like violence. Other people claim that there is violence on TV and in movies because people like violence. In this case, it is not obvious what the cause really is and the issue is clouded by the fact that emotions often run high on this issue.
While causal reasoning can be difficult, many errors can be avoided with due care and careful testing procedures. This is due to the fact that the fallacy arises because the conclusion is drawn without due care. One way to avoid the fallacy is to pay careful attention to the temporal sequence of events. Since (outside of Star Trek), effects do not generally precede their causes, if A occurs after B, then A cannot be the cause of B"
SOCRATES
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Rognvald said:
########################################################################
All of the above is absolutely correct and it cannot be faulted, however it seems the difficulty that people generally percieve to have is an inability to separate cause from effect.
It appears to me that both cause and effect are popularly seen as one.
Moreover what I am now beginning to twig, is that there is a universal reluctance in addition to try to understand, let alone attempt the excercise of backward engineering from an effect back to a cause,and this is exacerbated in addition by a resistance to acceptance.
Probably because in popular modernist thinking, it is not seen as necessary.
This may be the case in all other branches of daily human activity.
But in darksiding it is an essential discipline, and part of the intellectual glue needed to hold
the concept together.
In the absence of this glue, the easiest route is to expect someone else
to have done the backward engineering, hence the proliferation and popularity of indicators.
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Rognvald
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"Cognition, development and knowledge are processes of re-examination and recombination of the structural parts of a complex open system. Equilibrium in the Human Being inevitably brings death, since the processes of cognition, development and knowledge will have reached the end"
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