Terrorist Attacks in London?

[commanderco]

Yes, you have an axe to grind. You are so cynical and pessimistic that you can't see what you are saying or doing. Your world is dark. I don't want it. I will take the good ole USA anyday!

You are a fascinating fellow PTTRADER.
Where in the US do you live and what is your profession?

 

[pttrader]

You are a fascinating fellow PTTRADER.
Where in the US do you live and what is your profession?

Well thank you! Unfortunately, not all people think that way about me. I am, thus I live. I do what I do. I doubt you are really interested in knowing about me but I have enjoyed our little discussion and arguments.

 

[commanderco]

Well thank you! Unfortunately, not all people think that way about me. I am, thus I live. I do what I do. I doubt you are really interested in knowing about me but I have enjoyed our little discussion and arguments.

You do us both a disservice PT by not answering my questions.
If I was not interested I would not waste our time by asking.

Incidentally, all the information that I have quoted is directly from US sources.
Gov sites, the Fed etc it is all there in broad american daylight.
No blogs, no european sites. I believe it is always best to go hunting in
the country of origin .... and therefore no axe to grind.

 

[Euro_d]

I have not contributed to this thread for a long time so here goes.
I respect everyones opinions PROVIDED that the opinion given is clearly promoted as opinion not fact, therein lies a problem, many in this world promote opinion as fact.

OK, US is a world super power that cannot be denied. Democratic, yes, to a degree. Anyone old enough to remember the US neuroticreaction to the word "communist". It was a crime to have left leaning views. Can the US citizens remember the way they treated their "own" just because they happened to not be white?
Need I go no?

So, it is said that the US has a world view and its citizens support that world view.
On what basis can the vast majority of Americans really honestly say they have a world view when it is reported that over 80% do not have a passport! A great proportion of the balance (for example) claim to have experienced Europe in a 1 day per country trip.
That world view is based on the publicity machine that is to a greater or lesser degree controlled either by political tampering or simple commercial interest. That happens in every country in the world.

Going from one state to another is not like going from France to Germany. Many things are different, language culture etc. OK, most Europeans and Americans hold some basic common values. My point is that to form an educated opinion of any situation one must be in possession of FACTS not someone else's interpretation. To know a country one has to live there for a considerable time and integrate in that country.

In my OPINION (not based on fact) the invasion of Iraq and the potential meddling with other countries is not motivated by caring or any high morals, it is simply commercial. Can I propose Pakistan or Africa as an example. Very poor countries and the so called caring countries spend a tiny amount compared to the Iraq invasion.
One begs the question why, caring or natural resources. Or perhaps the geographical proximity to Israel?

In my opinion, it is clearly the not the "caring" motive. Others may beg to differ.

 

[mburdge]

If you want to understand what's really going on, have a look at these websites for starters. (most disturbing!):

www.reopen911.org
www.nineeleven.co.uk

 

[commanderco]

You are dead right Euro_d.
Until you live in a Country and come to know the people as friends it is simply not possible to understand their lifestyle & situation.
My Wife & I are Kiwis & have lived in Australia, Italy, France USA and for the last 2 years, here in Buenos Aires. She lived in London & danced with Covent Garden & I have owned and maintained an International Textile Company before I sold it and turned to trading.
We have also travelled through Asia & Europe extensively, but that is not the same as living in a place.
As an aside, of all the things that I have done & learnt, trading is by far the most difficult.
It was not until I came to terms with passive concentration that I began to succeed.
Up until then I had treated it with the same dynamic concentration that I had put into business & sport and my results were erratic.

The current US President is not a travelled person and boy does it show. At least his predecessor had lived in England as a rhode scholar and it gave him some thoughtfulness.

The reason why I was curious about PTTRADER and his background was simply to try to see why he supported those views of his. My next question to him was to see if he held US passport. Incidentally Euro_d did you know that the biggest group of turistas in the US is the military .......it always has been this way.
In this moment, the most indebted nation in the world has the miltary power to cause enormous damage to innocent people ( I believe that they are called collaterals)
This was pretty much the situation in Rome around 300AD
To balance this uneven bulk of power, the balance of the World has thoughtfulness, wisdom & experience .... history will recall the eventual outcome of this struggle to be known as The Trade Wars or The Commodity Wars.

Talking of Collaterals, the next bunch will be the US middleclass .... in fact it is underway as we speak and the clues lay in a Greenspan speech and yes Greenspan is a US citizen and so all loyal Americans are allowed to believe him.

There is much much more to be expanded on this subject and the roots of the information all lie within USA .

 

[Tapewormtoo]

If you want to understand what's really going on, have a look at these websites for starters. (most disturbing!):

www.reopen911.org
www.nineeleven.co.uk

What a joke. LOL! Maybe the airplanes where paper airplanes that flew into the buildings??

 

[Tapewormtoo]

You are dead right Euro_d.
Until you live in a Country and come to know the people as friends it is simply not possible to understand their lifestyle & situation.
My Wife & I are Kiwis & have lived in Australia, Italy, France USA and for the last 2 years, here in Buenos Aires. She lived in London & danced with Covent Garden & I have owned and maintained an International Textile Company before I sold it and turned to trading.
We have also travelled through Asia & Europe extensively, but that is not the same as living in a place.
As an aside, of all the things that I have done & learnt, trading is by far the most difficult.
It was not until I came to terms with passive concentration that I began to succeed.
Up until then I had treated it with the same dynamic concentration that I had put into business & sport and my results were erratic.

The current US President is not a travelled person and boy does it show. At least his predecessor had lived in England as a rhode scholar and it gave him some thoughtfulness.

The reason why I was curious about PTTRADER and his background was simply to try to see why he supported those views of his. My next question to him was to see if he held US passport. Incidentally Euro_d did you know that the biggest group of turistas in the US is the military .......it always has been this way.
In this moment, the most indebted nation in the world has the miltary power to cause enormous damage to innocent people ( I believe that they are called collaterals)
This was pretty much the situation in Rome around 300AD
To balance this uneven bulk of power, the balance of the World has thoughtfulness, wisdom & experience .... history will recall the eventual outcome of this struggle to be known as The Trade Wars or The Commodity Wars.

Talking of Collaterals, the next bunch will be the US middleclass .... in fact it is underway as we speak and the clues lay in a Greenspan speech and yes Greenspan is a US citizen and so all loyal Americans are allowed to believe him.

There is much much more to be expanded on this subject and the roots of the information all lie within USA .

Did you forget to mention the WTC incident?? What kind of damage was that? Damage to innocent people??Or do you too suscribe to the conspiracy theories?? It amazes me how that incident is passed over and the US is just labeled the big bad boy who intentionally kills innocent people.

 

[commanderco]

Did you forget to mention the WTC incident?? What kind of damage was that? Damage to innocent people??Or do you too suscribe to the conspiracy theories?? It amazes me how that incident is passed over and the US is just labeled the big bad boy who intentionally kills innocent people.

Hello Tape,
How you have linked the WTC incident to these previous postings concerning oil in Iraq fascinates me.
Perhaps you did it unintentionally in a burst of wellmeaning enthusiasm, but you need to give thought to just how this link appears to others. What ever happened to WMD

WTC was a dreadful incident. It should never have been planned and perpetrated and equally it should have been prevented.
I put the conspiracy theories surrounding WTC in the same bag as those surrounding Zachary Taylor's Army,USS maine and Pearl Harbour.
All these theories I leave to others as they have no place in my life. And yes, the deaths of those innocent people and the deaths of all subsequent innocent people upsets me greatly.
And you are correct to call them "innocent" it is the US military who coined the desicable term "collateral damage"

However, there is one thing that has always confounded me about that dreadful day in September 2001 and I would be obliged if you could cast some light on it for me Tape.
It is this.
WTC 7 ( a 47 floor building) was demolished later that day as it was described as a danger if left standing.
Demolition experts say that it takes days / weeks to wire a building in order for it to collapse into its own footprint and yet WT 7 was blown within hours of the two aircraft strikes and collapsed well into its own footprint.
What has always bothered me, is not that this event took place, but that no one has created sufficent noise in order to demand a satisfactory answer.

 

[Euro_d]

Thanks commanderco,
I could not have responded better!

Of course we do not blindly subscribe so conspiracy theories but it is every free persons right (and obligation) to question what we are told if we have doubt.

My doubt is the motive that was put forward and supported by the UK and Spanish (since ousted at election) heads of state.

No WMD, just commercial interest.

Regards
Dave

 

[commanderco]

No WMD, just commercial interest.

Dave

No WMD, just commercial interest.
Sad but true. This what this piece of commercial tourism is all about.

What concerns me greatly is that normally intelligent well meaning people then defend the indefensible, not because they believe it at all, but because of some form of misguided patriotism, when in fact their leaders do not give a dam about them and are going to hang the full cost upon them in more ways than one.

Somebody once said " Once you lose your innocence you will never want to go back"
This can be equally applied to naiviety and we wont even discuss virginity!

 

[Tapewormtoo]

What do you think the US should have done over WTC?

 

[commanderco]

What do you think the US should have done over WTC?

Hello Tape,
That is a very fair question and a huge one at that; deserving of a considered answer.
Let me ponder on it, before I attempt that answer.

 

[commanderco]

What do you think the US should have done over WTC?

Hola Señor Tape,

I have chosen to answer the question exactly as it is written.

I believe that the US should have gone after the planners & perpetrators of WTC and
delivered them to justice one way or another.
Since the head of the snake appeared to be OBL the US should have brought him to justice
one way or another.
At the time the US had the resources to achieve this, quite comfortably in my opinion, and in that moment it had sufficient amigos and interested parties surrounding it to ensure that it did not feel alone in it´s task.
All that was necessary from the US was a single mindedness that would have avoided the trap of being lead by temptation.

Sadly, for all the outcome has been is quite different.

 

[Tapewormtoo]

Hola Señor Tape,

I have chosen to answer the question exactly as it is written.

I believe that the US should have gone after the planners & perpetrators of WTC and
delivered them to justice one way or another.
Since the head of the snake appeared to be OBL the US should have brought him to justice
one way or another.
At the time the US had the resources to achieve this, quite comfortably in my opinion, and in that moment it had sufficient amigos and interested parties surrounding it to ensure that it did not feel alone in it´s task.
All that was necessary from the US was a single mindedness that would have avoided the trap of being lead by temptation.

Sadly, for all the outcome has been is quite different.

I agree. Should have kept on OBL trail and until justice was accomplished.

 

[Pitscum]

Since the head of the snake appeared to be OBL the US should have brought him to justice

not in a month of sundays will obl ever be caught by the powers that be; the bush family are in so deep with the bl clan that it would undermine the usa entirely should anything happen.

 

[Tapewormtoo]

not in a month of sundays will obl ever be caught by the powers that be; the bush family are in so deep with the bl clan that it would undermine the usa entirely should anything happen.

You must be refering to the Moore film.

 

[commanderco]

I agree. Should have kept on OBL trail and until justice was accomplished.

HelloTape,

The answer to the broader question concerning the correct action to take following
WTC is far far more complex and begins within Corp/Gov USA.
I would not suggest a course of action, simply because the wound is selfhealing and will need to run its course before withering and dying like all those before it.

Much is conjecture and leads wooly thinkers to silly conclusions as though there is one single answer that solves the riddle, much like the Warren Commission´s magic bullet.

However WTC 7 does offer, dare I say it, a concrete base from which to objectively probe.
There is a complete lack of conjecture and conspiracy at its foundation, just hard facts and this is a great place to start and a solid point of reference to return to once the wooly thinkers and the spin doctors begin their child like games.

I see the new new game in town is birdflu!
The salvation lies in a product known as Tamiflu. Produced solely by Roche, created by Gilead
for 10% of the gross and sold to the US taxpayer without competition.
The stockholders of Gilead who foresaw this pandemic and bought their stock early are understandabley delighted .... just ask d rumsfeld.
Yes the Canadians have indentified H5 in migrating geese and yes H5 is the type given to this particular flu although the geese are probably not aware of this.
H5N1 the crossover subtype has yet to be found in Canadian geese .... well according to the Canadians anyway.
It will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

This what I believe might return a balance of power and therefore direction to an administration gone astray. I will not say "lost its way" because of the presumption that is inferred.
When the white house calls a press conference it could be assumed that the key players are the press themselves, otherwise why call a conference.
Since the press are the key, then they set the agenda.
If the monlogue from the podium addresses Iraq, the press asks questions concerning Katrina.
If the podium addresses birdflu, the press enquires after Iraq.

 

[Tapewormtoo]

Commanerco

Are you participating in the anti-bush rally in Argentina? Are you a leftist activist? Just wondering? Why is Argentina meddling in the U.S.'s business? The war is ours not Argentinas.

 

[commanderco]

Commanerco

Are you participating in the anti-bush rally in Argentina? Are you a leftist activist? Just wondering? Why is Argentina meddling in the U.S.'s business? The war is ours not Argentinas.

Hola Tape, lovely to hear from you.

I said that I would participate if they could lay on a decent Malbec or even a chardonnay
would do and we would make a day of it.... not to be sadly. The best offer was pepper spray and cheese and I am off cheese at the moment.
Am I a leftist activist? No, I hold a glass in my right hand!

And yes, there should be no outside meddling in your little war, we have our own oil.

Incidentally, last time an Oil Co tried to raise prices here the entire nation boycotted the little buggers and they (Shell Oil) still have not recovered.
Our beloved Presidente told the Internationals that as they raised prices at the pumps he would raise their export taxes accordingly. Consequently, fuel is slightly cheaper here than it was when we first arrived 18 months ago, but what would we know about smart business, we are only simple latinos!!

I see your Pres has just dropped to 35% in the polls. Here a snap business poll had him at 15% and 17% in Brazil.
If I recall correctly, by way of comparison, Clinton dropped to 55% when he mistook his pecker for a cigar. Actually my wife has a beautiful gold cigar lighter with which she could have brought Bill up to speed in the time that it takes to scream.[
Saludos from fun city./COLOR]