One could make the obvious comment that a German is still a German and US certainly did not defend them in the past.
Or another rather obvious observation that the Red Army had something to do with the defeat of Nazi Germany.
Nobody denies the importance of the US in defeating Germany or Japan in WWII, but why that should provide a free ticket for ever more to exercise it's own imperial ambitions needs a bit of explaining.
JTrader
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Was 911 an inside job
Who thinks 911 was an inside job, Yes or no?
Looking at the evidence from films like loose change, 911 mysteries - demolitions, 911 eyewitness Hoboken at google videos, plus some of the various 911 truth websites etc., I do.
I wish they could/would prove it was all conspiracy BS, but they haven't...
If you'd prefer not to say yes or no, why are you not comfortable offering your opinion/discussing it. The reason being, i fail to see how you can have a proper discussion about America & modern day terror without addressing 911.
Who thinks 911 was an inside job, Yes or no?
Looking at the evidence from films like loose change, 911 mysteries - demolitions, 911 eyewitness Hoboken at google videos, plus some of the various 911 truth websites etc., I do.
I wish they could/would prove it was all conspiracy BS, but they haven't...
If you'd prefer not to say yes or no, why are you not comfortable offering your opinion/discussing it. The reason being, i fail to see how you can have a proper discussion about America & modern day terror without addressing 911.
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Isn't it obvious? Ask a West German who defended him against the Russians. Then ask an East German why he wanted to tear the wall down.
Then ask a Russian why he decided that Western democracy was better than what he had.
The second paragraph is true if one questions the fairness of how things are. But the fact is that damned all is fair in this world of ours. We are all painted with the same brush. We are after what we can get and its been the same all through history. This time its America's turn. Who are you going to replace them with. I hope its someone I like better. Whoever it is, it will be someone who hopes to feather his own nest in some way. Not yours, or mine.
fibonelli
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These links should provide you with enough evidence
http://www.rense.com/Datapages/popmechdat.htm
http://st911.org/
http://erroneousbusczh.homestead.com/9-11Plot.html
If you're still not convinced I'll post one more link.
"In early 2007, Speaker Pelosi and two other prominent Democrats failed to disclose their positions as officers of family charities. This violated a law requiring members of Congress to disclose such positions. Brendan Daly, spokesman for Speaker Pelosi, called the failure to report the position she has held since 1992 "an oversight."
In October of 2003, Pelosi's fund-raising committee was fined $21,000 for improperly accepting donations over federal limits. This followed criticism that she had improperly used multiple PACs to exceed the limits."
Everyone is doing what they do for a reason. That reason, usually, requires backing from others. In this case, the American voter. Don't be naive. Politics is a dirty game.
Atilla
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My my, you are getting very touchy. If you feel like this over some words just imagine how others may feel being whipped and butchered by uncle Sam.
I also can't help feeling you feel personaly wounded for some profound reason but as in all people instead of addressing the facts on the ground you much rather hem your self in to your old beliefs indoctrinated into you over the good old years.
I too was pro-American, have travelled around NY, Washington, West Virginia and Baltimore. Love the American people and their hospitality. But what's that got to do with politics, government and voicing our democratic opinion?
Your rant has lost the plot. My view of US would make it much stronger. It's current path is taking it into the doldrums. So you like to believe you are flying the American flag and helping the American people. I don't think so.
You have to call it for what it is. Wake up and stop being disillusional.
I am too old to be childish to accept US administration neo-cons bull. Lets cut taxes further and drop interest rates. Lets kick Iran into touch and Syria for good measure too. We'll think about the costs later?
US can't afford medical insurance and pensions for it's own citizens yet launches $600bn dollar wars to kill people. But your naivity of thoughts leaves a lot to be desired.
Time will tell.
Nicely put....Sums the whole issue up.....QED....
A culture with such rich material existence is riddled with ghettos and underclass and poverty where in some parts the death rate age is LOWER than third world.....If this is the full blown capitalism working then give me mild socialism anytime....at least they had ability to create a National Health after war ravaged economy like Britain.....!!
If we wre so anti american we won't be using XP or ipod etc etc......It is important to point out blataent shortcomings of US Politicians who only brainwash the people to achieve another means......!
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kagein
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I took a look at those websites and they are my very definition of 'sketchy'
high on theories, low on facts and evidence. By facts i mean, that which cannot disputed. You may ask, why is this so? Simple because there are no facts out there to support the conspiracies claims. This is a FACT.
high on theories, low on facts and evidence. By facts i mean, that which cannot disputed. You may ask, why is this so? Simple because there are no facts out there to support the conspiracies claims. This is a FACT.
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fibonelli
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Atilla,
Post 75 – succinct, excellent.
That awful review aside, by virtue of being written by a sociologist (and with European roots) tells me everything I need to know – avoid.
However, a couple of points re the review(er):
“ignorance and hypocrisy that underlies the fashionable anti-Americanism” .
What about rational hate derived from genuine sentiments?
Which country’s elites – political, economic, social – are void of hypocrisy (I don’t believe they are ignorant – they are fully cognisant)?
Grant.
Post 75 – succinct, excellent.
That awful review aside, by virtue of being written by a sociologist (and with European roots) tells me everything I need to know – avoid.
However, a couple of points re the review(er):
“ignorance and hypocrisy that underlies the fashionable anti-Americanism” .
What about rational hate derived from genuine sentiments?
Which country’s elites – political, economic, social – are void of hypocrisy (I don’t believe they are ignorant – they are fully cognisant)?
Grant.
Atilla
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Post 75 is What?
You mean?
I think I rather stick my right in-growing toe in to my left good reading eye than read this snotty ignorent book. :idea:
Simply an idea that's all. Nothing more and nothing less. All I did was reverse the reviewers words around a little.
And you told me off for being childish and radical. :cheesy:
I don't like you anymore...
In fact I'm really tempted not to reply to your posts until you say sorry.
...er yes you appear to be joking anyway even after providing a link to a site that is always being queried and questioned on the stats.....
Even if you look at this site then you will notice the deaths under British or US are far larger than the Asiatic countries.....Just two famines under the British Raj had death toll that is at par with two world wars.....And then there is Irish famine n der British......
Where are the stats of Atom Bombs on Japan by the way......
Atilla
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Must read article...
British Criticize Air Attacks in Afghan Region
Those nice little ol americans don't kill innocent civilians do they? At least not intentionally dropping bombs
This is softly softly gentle criticism of the US army.
Isn't it ironic that they recently commented on our troops not having the stomach for a fight in Basra?
========
Sorry chaps, just tested link and the New York times need a sign-on. Anyway here is the full article for your interest...
SANGIN, Afghanistan — A senior British commander in southern Afghanistan said in recent weeks that he had asked that American Special Forces leave his area of operations because the high level of civilian casualties they had caused was making it difficult to win over local people.
The New York Times
Other British officers here in Helmand Province, speaking on condition of anonymity, criticized American Special Forces for causing most of the civilian deaths and injuries in their area. They also expressed concerns that the Americans’ extensive use of air power was turning the people against the foreign presence as British forces were trying to solidify recent gains against the Taliban.
An American military spokesman denied that the request for American forces to leave was ever made, either formally or otherwise, or that they had caused most of the casualties. But the episode underlines differences of opinion among NATO and American military forces in Afghanistan on tactics for fighting Taliban insurgents, and concerns among soldiers about the consequences of the high level of civilians being killed in fighting.
A precise tally of civilian deaths is difficult to pin down, but one reliable count puts the number killed in Helmand this year at close to 300 civilians, the vast majority of them caused by foreign and Afghan forces, rather than the Taliban.
“Everyone is concerned about civilian casualties,” the senior British commander said. “Of course it is counterproductive if civilians get injured, but we’ve got to pick up the pack of cards that we have got. Other people have been operating in our area before us.”
After months of heavy fighting that began in early 2006, the British commanders say they are finally making headway in securing important areas such as this town, and are now in the difficult position of trying to win back support among local people whose lives have been devastated by aerial bombing.
American Special Forces have been active in Helmand since United States forces first entered Afghanistan in late 2001, and for several years they maintained a small base outside the town of Gereshk. But the foreign troop presence was never more than a few hundred men.
British forces arrived in the spring of 2006 and now have command of the province with some 6,000 troops deployed, with small units of Estonians and Danish troops. American Special Forces have continued to assist in fighting insurgents, operating as advisers to Afghan national security forces.
It is these American teams that are coming under criticism. They tend to work in small units that rely heavily on air cover because they are vulnerable to large groups of insurgents. Such Special Forces teams have often called in airstrikes in Helmand and other places where civilians have subsequently been found to have suffered casualties.
In just two cases, airstrikes killed 31 nomads west of Kandahar in November last year and another 57 villagers, half of them women and children, in western Afghanistan in April. In both cases, United States Special Forces were responsible for calling in the airstrikes.
The chief British press officer in Helmand, Col. Charles Mayo, defended the American Special Forces and said they were essential to NATO’s efforts to clear out heavily entrenched Taliban insurgents. Which is why they had to kill 57 women and children to get to the *******s...
An American military spokesman said United States Special Forces would continue to operate in Helmand for the foreseeable future. He denied that their tactics had caused greater civilian deaths and blamed the Taliban for fighting from civilian compounds. Yeah like why don't they come out into the open and fight like real men. Hell those civilians deserved it too for protecting their men folk.
“U.S. Special Forces have a tremendous reputation not only in combat operations but also in training and advising the Afghan National Security Forces,” Lt. Col. David Accetta, a spokesman for American forces in Afghanistan, said in an e-mail response from Bagram air base.
United States Special Forces had also provided development and medical assistance, which, with the combat missions, “can be said to have ‘turned the tide’ in Helmand,” he said. Medical assistance? Nice touch of compassion there.
But the senior British commander, who spoke on condition of anonymity during an interview in July, said that in Sangin, which has been calm recently, there was no longer a need for United States Special Forces. “There aren’t large bodies of Taliban to fight anymore; we are dealing with small groups and we are trying to kick-start reconstruction and development,” he said.
Orders had just come down from the NATO force’s headquarters in Kabul, which is led by Gen. Dan K. McNeill of the United States, re-emphasizing the need to avoid civilian deaths, he said.
“The phrase is: ‘It may be legal but is it appropriate?’ No one is saying it is illegal to use air power, but is there any other way of doing it if there is a risk of collateral damage?” he said. YES THERE IS LISTEN TO THE SENIOR BRITISH COMMANDER you toe rags.
What absolute ******s!
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You mean?
I think I rather stick my right in-growing toe in to my left good reading eye than read this snotty ignorent book. :idea:
Simply an idea that's all. Nothing more and nothing less. All I did was reverse the reviewers words around a little.
And you told me off for being childish and radical. :cheesy:
I don't like you anymore...
In fact I'm really tempted not to reply to your posts until you say sorry.
Atilla, I'm sorry that I misinterpreted your post 75 and do hope that we will continue to exchange points of view, but not on this. It is not that I have any disagreement with you, or anyone, over Iraq, but there is a strong element of "Hate America" running through the world just now, that dismays me. Sarkozy has just made an arms agreement with Gadaffi. The release of that doctor and nurses was just a pretext. No one shows any interest in that or the French sale of arms to iran, during their war with Iraq, causing the deaths of an untold number of people over several years.
The arms industries of both the UK and Spain are both alive and thriving. How many people have been killed by them. An untold number, but America must not be, actively, interested in a war. That, immediately, strikes up screams of "unfair" from the rabble rousers, who see no harm in their own people earning big money in the arms industry. Don't mention the Russian plutonium industry or their famous Kalashnikov rifle. The prejudices against the US are so hypocritical that it beggars belief.
My desire for America, in the future, is that she avoids sending troops to any more trouble spots. That goes for the UK, too. Let someone else do it.
If the US went into Iraq to control the oil market, then they made a mistake. There is no way that, even they, are going to do that.
Anyway, here I go again. Enough!.
Good wishes.
Split
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I think that US and UK and for that matter any Country SHOULD send their troops to trouble spots.......But important aspect of doing so is that it must be under the tutilage of UN Mandate......After all that is what it was set up for - to prevent unnecessary wars and conflicts...
Saddam Hussein was asked to comply with UN requirements. But US and UK and few other Countries decided to wage this war WITHOUT UN Mandate. US and UK cannot have double standards.
And because some in Europe questioned the validity of this war, they were called Old Europe......
Now the war c0ck up on a grand scale has come to roost in US and UK it is no wonder the US and UK are hated more on International scale....More so in Middle East.
I'll let you have it, since it is history and I'm in the minority, anyway. However, if I had my way, some other UN nations would send their troops into Darfur, for example, before I sent American and British. Enough is enough.
