Atilla
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What happened to they don't like our democracy and civilised way of life?
What happened to they don't like our democracy and civilised way of life?
fibonelli
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Introduction
excerpted from the book
Rogue State
by William Blum
"For 70 years, the United States convinced much of the world that there was an international conspiracy out there. An International Communist Conspiracy, seeking no less than control over the entire planet, for purposes which had no socially redeeming values. And the world was made to believe that it somehow needed the United States to save it from communist darkness. "Just buy our weapons," said Washington, "let our military and our corporations roam freely across your land, and give us veto power over whom your leaders will be, and we'll protect you."
It was the cleverest protection racket since men convinced women that they needed men to protect them-if all the men vanished overnight, how many women would be afraid to walk the streets?
And if the people of any foreign land were benighted enough to not realize that they needed to be saved, if they failed to appreciate the underlying nobility of American motives, they were warned that they would burn in Communist Hell. Or a CIA facsimile thereof. And they would be saved nonetheless.
A decade after the fall of the Berlin Wall, America is still saving countries and peoples from one danger or another. The scorecard reads as follows: From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.
As I write this in Washington, DC, in April 1999, the United States is busy saving Yugoslavia. Bombing a modern, sophisticated society back to a pre-industrial age. And The Great American Public, in its infinite wisdom, is convinced that its government is motivated by "humanitarian" impulses................".
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Intro_RogueState.html
excerpted from the book
Rogue State
by William Blum
"For 70 years, the United States convinced much of the world that there was an international conspiracy out there. An International Communist Conspiracy, seeking no less than control over the entire planet, for purposes which had no socially redeeming values. And the world was made to believe that it somehow needed the United States to save it from communist darkness. "Just buy our weapons," said Washington, "let our military and our corporations roam freely across your land, and give us veto power over whom your leaders will be, and we'll protect you."
It was the cleverest protection racket since men convinced women that they needed men to protect them-if all the men vanished overnight, how many women would be afraid to walk the streets?
And if the people of any foreign land were benighted enough to not realize that they needed to be saved, if they failed to appreciate the underlying nobility of American motives, they were warned that they would burn in Communist Hell. Or a CIA facsimile thereof. And they would be saved nonetheless.
A decade after the fall of the Berlin Wall, America is still saving countries and peoples from one danger or another. The scorecard reads as follows: From 1945 to the end of the century, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements struggling against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.
As I write this in Washington, DC, in April 1999, the United States is busy saving Yugoslavia. Bombing a modern, sophisticated society back to a pre-industrial age. And The Great American Public, in its infinite wisdom, is convinced that its government is motivated by "humanitarian" impulses................".
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Intro_RogueState.html
WTF are Christian missionaries doing in Afghanistan?
We don’t need “fundamentalist Christian suicide bombers” – we have our armed forces.
“The US don't go out to kill civilians” nor does any other armed force but all expect inevitable ‘collateral’ damage.
Atilla,
I believe legal proceedings for ‘crimes against humanity’, etc are bllocks. They are a face–saving device bought by those who could be accused of criminal negligence by inactivity or non-intervention, eg ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, Tutsi/Hutu slaughter, Ethiopia (broadly), Eritrea, Darfur. The words stable door and bolted come to mind.
Broadening the context (extremely) the only valid contribution the UK’s BBC makes in any sphere can be found here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/beyond_belief/index.shtml
The latest programme examines the emergence of Christian Zionism. A fringe element but interesting nevertheless.
Grant.
We don’t need “fundamentalist Christian suicide bombers” – we have our armed forces.
“The US don't go out to kill civilians” nor does any other armed force but all expect inevitable ‘collateral’ damage.
Atilla,
I believe legal proceedings for ‘crimes against humanity’, etc are bllocks. They are a face–saving device bought by those who could be accused of criminal negligence by inactivity or non-intervention, eg ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, Tutsi/Hutu slaughter, Ethiopia (broadly), Eritrea, Darfur. The words stable door and bolted come to mind.
Broadening the context (extremely) the only valid contribution the UK’s BBC makes in any sphere can be found here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/beyond_belief/index.shtml
The latest programme examines the emergence of Christian Zionism. A fringe element but interesting nevertheless.
Grant.
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested."
- Smedley Darlington Butler: Major General in the US Marine Corps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Who was it that said history doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes.
- Smedley Darlington Butler: Major General in the US Marine Corps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Who was it that said history doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes.
JTrader
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And who is it that has fanned the flames of the nighmare place otherwise known as Iraq?
A wasps nest is peaceful & no danger to anyone if you leave it alone, and stay well clear. If you accidentally stumble across one, you are more than likely to get stung, and the wasps go crazy.
You are coming across as being far too flippant for my liking, to engage in constructive debate with.
You talk about these deaths without any expression of human empathy/sorrow.
kagein
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But do the bees sting themselves? All death in war is regrettable, especially when estimated to be such a large number. I'm not debating the rights or wrongs of the coalitions actions, what I'm saying is that i just don't think the US should bare full responsibility for terrorism in and out of Iraq. Don't you think a suicide bomber who blows himself up in the middle of a market intentionally killing 50+ innocent people in one go bares sole and full responsibility for his actions?
I thought this was a constructive debate, it's regrettable you don't think so.
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....er you were not probably around Hyde Park bombing.....or nort around Canary Wharf on 9 2 96...or in Eniskellen.......were these er Christian Terrorists?....sorry or should one call them IRA or Loyalists ..or everything but Christian Terrorists...?
....bambers are bombers.....weather suicide or otherwise....
We won't go far as Baader Meinhoff era...
...hmmm I wonder where have all the Red Indians gone.....?.....And what happened to THEIR land..??.and who took it over.....Millions died....
I wonder who carried off entire country's people to be used as slaves on a massive scale....Millians died....
All this by Christians and god fearing Bible thumping good ol USA folks...!!
JTrader
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The Allies knew full well that the shia & sunni muslims did not get on. They knew full well this would happen in Iraq.............
Oh, come on! The Red Indians and the Aztecs, Mayas, Esqimos and Australian aborigines are history. Now we are being flooded with immigrants and, eventually, the white race will merge with the asiatics through reproduction and we will be history, too.
This is because a minority people are dominated by the majority. The same started to happen in Yugoslavia, Nazi Germany, Africa with genicide.
This has, always, happened and it will happen in Iraq. The same thing happens when city people move to a pleasant country village and take the place over, moving into the council, etc. It is change and is a continuous process.
Split
kagein
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Clearly, im refering to the modern day era.
I'm sure your aware America was not the only country involved in the slave trade.
Well im sure this can discussed at length but it really has nothing to do with the topic of this discussion, it's just too far back.
JTrader
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Maybe but why does that matter, it still happened?
History shows us what has happened, and therefore what can happen again.
It is also far from ancient history, and some of the Red Indian stuff went on in the 20th century.
kagein
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I'm sure your quite right, they did know that there were tensions between the local shia and Sunni population. I'm sure they took an optimistic view point, i.e. if saddam is gone and there is a democratically elected government maybe things would turn out ok. Clearly this has not happened and they should and are baring some of the responsibility for that, i'm sure Bush would like nothing better than to pull the troops out and save himself some grief but they've got to stay and clean up the mess. Having said that the Militias don't have an excuse to kill innocent civilians going about there daily lives. That is terrorism. They have the power to stop at anytime!!!
kagein
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Some new's stories or examples of the US government deliberately targeting innocents would be greatly appreciated.Are you sure about that.
Maybe you need to start looking beyond the mainstream CNN/BBC/ABC/FOX for your news.
Where should i be getting my news ?
It is most certainly not ancient history. Aboriginals in Australia only got the vote in 1967. An appalling piece of legislation - the Queensland Aboriginal and Islanders Act - was only repealed in the 1970s. Under this legislation, the Director of the Department could seize any indigenous persons bank account, prohibit access to family on reserves, indigenous workers were not entitled to the same wages as provided by the industrial awards that governed employment of other Australians. There is the "lost generation". The list goes on.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article2211281.ece
Politicians and their doormat servants...I'd sh..ti on them ,but I'm not in the habit of doing them such favours.
Politicians and their doormat servants...I'd sh..ti on them ,but I'm not in the habit of doing them such favours.
JTrader
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Not what can happen. It will happen again. It is happening in Shri Lanka and it happened in East Timor and, surely, it is happening in Chechenya and China. I am not going to beat the drum for anyone, anymore, I'm too old!
, unless he is British or Spanish. Split
