Secrets

[hwsteele]

Here is a picture of what has become known as "The Square of Nine"...

It has been reported that Gann was seen with a small one in trading pits so it would be one of the safer things to assume that he used it while trading.

He never really talked much about it, and as far as I can tell he never called it the square of nine.

Looking at the SQ9 (as I will call it from now on to save time) you can see how it most likely got its current name. With a "1" in the center square the number 9 is the last number in the first "ring of numbers" that goes around that center square.

I don't know for sure how Gann used the SQ9 but I do know how I have used it and it seems to work nicely for a few forecasting type things.:cheesy:

This is really one of quite a few "number wheels" that Gann used to trade.
The hexagon number wheel is probably the second most famous.
For now I will just be talking about the SQ9 though.

Most people don't really know what the SQ9 is.
It is a square root calculator. A slide ruler kinda thing.
This is what I mean by that...

Take any number from the SQ9. One of my favorite numbers is 44 so we can use that one. Find the square root of 44 (6.633) and add "2" to it. (6.633 + 2 = 8.633)
Now if you square the sum (8.633x8.633=74.531 or rounded to the closest whole number makes it 75) you will see that the number 75 is even with the number 44 but one cycle out on the SQ9.

Using the number 44 again we can take 2 away from the square root and get 21.(square root of 44=6.633. Subtract 2 makes the number 4.633. Square the number makes 21.465 or rounded to the nearest whole number 21.)

Use any number and the same formula and you will get the same results. So keep in mind when you move around the SQ9 you are really working with the square root of a number.

Now take a look at the lower left "leg" of the SQ9. That would be the 315degree angle that is blue with "4- Feb" at the end of it.
Do you notice anything about the numbers in that "leg"?
3x3=9
5x5=25
7x7=49
9x9=81
I bet you get the idea by now. That "leg" gives you the odd number natural squares.

Interestingly enough if you go around the wheel 180 degrees you will get (close) to the even number squares. It is really the numbers right above the right "arm" numbers that are the even number squares.

Now since you know that to go around the SQ9 one time you have to add "2" to the square root of that number, I bet you can start to see why the even and odd number natural squares are were they are on the SQ9. At least when compared to each other.

More to come...

 

[mvtrader2000]

I never quite got into Murrey Math.
The idea of the whole being divided into 8ths is always a good thing but for some reason I never looked at Murrey Math too in depthly.

If you would like to share it with us please feel free to do so.

OK, I will try to put something together if you think it would be of interest.

 

[hwsteele]

OK, I will try to put something together if you think it would be of interest.

Sure it would be interesting.
Looking forward to what you have to show us.

 

[mvtrader2000]

I was told that WD Gann used almost exactly the same trading system that I have detailed in my PDF, way back in 1910 but he didn't tell anyone precisely how he did it.
Now it has been eluded to by various biographers over the years since then that Mr Gann simply liked to encourage his students to think for themselves and that the information that held the secrets of his success was "hidden" in his written works.

Well that may well be true, but how was Gann able to walk from one trading pit to another, ask 3 questions and then make a perfect trade and cash out at the exactly correct moment if his system was so very complex.

Gann proved what a master of trading he was when he published 264 out of 388 trades during 25 days of trading in 1910 turning $10,000 into $1,000,000.

I am reliably informed that he actually used much the same information as I present here....except he memorized it and recalculated it for each stock trade that he made.

He is purported to have used a square card for calculating his daily trades and an oblong one for his weekly trades. Again, no one knows for sure what information these cards held but the shape has led many to suppose that he was using the Square of 9.

I am told that he then made up a great deal of very complex rules to throw the casual observer "off the scent" of how he managed to be so successful.

Whether any or all of that is based in fact it is now impossible to confirm or deny, but one thing is for sure. The "MurreyMaths Levels" system of trading can show some spectacular results and since in his lifetime W D Gann amassed a personal fortune of over $50,000,000 through his trading skills he must have been doing something right!

Below is a zipped download which includes 2 PDFs explaining:-

1). The MurreyMaths Levels

2). Gann reversal days for 2012.

Also included are the 2 MT4 indicators that I use.

I hope you will find the enclosed information of interest.

 

[vergis92]

I was told that WD Gann used almost exactly the same trading system that I have detailed in my PDF, way back in 1910 but he didn't tell anyone precisely how he did it.
Now it has been eluded to by various biographers over the years since then that Mr Gann simply liked to encourage his students to think for themselves and that the information that held the secrets of his success was "hidden" in his written works.

Well that may well be true, but how was Gann able to walk from one trading pit to another, ask 3 questions and then make a perfect trade and cash out at the exactly correct moment if his system was so very complex.

Gann proved what a master of trading he was when he published 264 out of 388 trades during 25 days of trading in 1910 turning $10,000 into $1,000,000.

I am reliably informed that he actually used much the same information as I present here....except he memorized it and recalculated it for each stock trade that he made.

He is purported to have used a square card for calculating his daily trades and an oblong one for his weekly trades. Again, no one knows for sure what information these cards held but the shape has led many to suppose that he was using the Square of 9.

I am told that he then made up a great deal of very complex rules to throw the casual observer "off the scent" of how he managed to be so successful.

Whether any or all of that is based in fact it is now impossible to confirm or deny, but one thing is for sure. The "MurreyMaths Levels" system of trading can show some spectacular results and since in his lifetime W D Gann amassed a personal fortune of over $50,000,000 through his trading skills he must have been doing something right!

Below is a zipped download which includes 2 PDFs explaining:-

1). The MurreyMaths Levels

2). Gann reversal days for 2012.

Also included are the 2 MT4 indicators that I use.

I hope you will find the enclosed information of interest.

I am familiar with Gann, but as I learned more and more about him, and according to other traders' opinion, it became apparent that Gann was more of a myth than reality, and there's definitely no ultimate secret in his trading.

No proof of his $50m ever existed, and he did have big influence over some newspapers' publishings, I think he owned these papers.

He may have predicted some shares with amazing precision, and the 1929 crash, but so did other , less known traders (who did not influence the news), so we don't know about them.

In another text, Gann claimed that the 'law of vibration' allowed him to make all those 'profitable trades, and that $50m', again he talks non sense, disguised in some actual scientific terms.

So was he a far-sighted scientist who decoded the markets, or maybe he was 10% trader and 90% snake oil salesman selling more fancy wrappings than content??


Even today, we see pseudo-scientists and fake inventors who claim to have invented free energy, water-powered cars, they get enormous publicity, but there's no big secret about their inventions, because they have invented NOTHING!


you can predict the next market crash with simple indicators (Larry Williams predicted the 1987 crash), you can predict many stock movements, and publish the successful ones, then claim to be the next Gann, and if you own few newspapers and TV channels you will make history, 100 years later your books will still sell:!:

 

[mvtrader2000]

I am familiar with Gann, but as I learned more and more about him, and according to other traders' opinion, it became apparent that Gann was more of a myth than reality, and there's definitely no ultimate secret in his trading.

No proof of his $50m ever existed, and he did have big influence over some newspapers' publishings, I think he owned these papers.

He may have predicted some shares with amazing precision, and the 1929 crash, but so did other , less known traders (who did not influence the news), so we don't know about them.

In another text, Gann claimed that the 'law of vibration' allowed him to make all those 'profitable trades, and that $50m', again he talks non sense, disguised in some actual scientific terms.

So was he a far-sighted scientist who decoded the markets, or maybe he was 10% trader and 90% snake oil salesman selling more fancy wrappings than content??


Even today, we see pseudo-scientists and fake inventors who claim to have invented free energy, water-powered cars, they get enormous publicity, but there's no big secret about their inventions, because they have invented NOTHING!


you can predict the next market crash with simple indicators (Larry Williams predicted the 1987 crash), you can predict many stock movements, and publish the successful ones, then claim to be the next Gann, and if you own few newspapers and TV channels you will make history, 100 years later your books will still sell:!:

I tend to agree with what you say, but in regard to MurreyMaths I do find some accuracy.

I am not saying that MM is the answer to a traders prayers, but it is worth some consideration.

As to the rest....Well some of it stacks up for some of the time and some not....Just like the % Williams indicator, MACD, AO,AC, et al., which is why I favour Price Action trading with MM Levels in front of anything else.

Having said that, I am always happy to learn something new. Learning and
testing is the fun part of trading. Making a living is a much more serious business.

 

[DionysusToast]

Crabs? Odd pets. Great food but odd pets...

Was there some nudity there you had to black out?

 

[mvtrader2000]

So was he a far-sighted scientist who decoded the markets, or maybe he was 10% trader and 90% snake oil salesman selling more fancy wrappings than content??

One other thing that I feel ought to air is regarding snake oil.

Snake oil originally came from China and is derived from the Chinese Water Snake (Enhydris chinensis).

There, it was - and still is - used as a very effective remedy for inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, and other similar conditions.

Fats and oils from snakes are higher in eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) than other sources. Snake oil is still sold in traditional Chinese pharmacy stores.

The derogatory term "Snake Oil Salesman" is actually quite unjustified.

Chinese labourers on railroad gangs involved in building the First Transcontinental Railroad first introduced snake oil to Europeans with joint pain.

When rubbed on the skin at the painful site, snake oil was often able to bring relief.

This claim was ridiculed by rival medicine salesmen, and in time, snake oil became a generic name for many compounds marketed as panaceas or miraculous remedies whose ingredients were usually secret, unidentified and mostly inert, ineffective or actually harmful - but DID NOT contain snake oil. :cheesy:

 

[DionysusToast]

you can predict the next market crash with simple indicators (Larry Williams predicted the 1987 crash), you can predict many stock movements, and publish the successful ones, then claim to be the next Gann, and if you own few newspapers and TV channels you will make history, 100 years later your books will still sell:!:

100 years??? Talk about playing the long game...

I have the same feelings about Gann too - I think he was one of the early snake oil salesmen. None of this stuff has anything to do with why people would take a position.

HWSteele - has your Gann journey yielded profits yet? I see you as a bit of a Tom Hanks - looking for clues along with your husky maiden. Just wondering if you found the actual grail yet?

 

[pboyles]

100 years??? Talk about playing the long game...

I have the same feelings about Gann too - I think he was one of the early snake oil salesmen. None of this stuff has anything to do with why people would take a position.

HWSteele - has your Gann journey yielded profits yet? I see you as a bit of a Tom Hanks - looking for clues along with your husky maiden. Just wondering if you found the actual grail yet?

All very well but you still have to find the man that can decode it.

Flag-Trader System, Guy Cohen

 

[DionysusToast]

lol! I was hoping you'd see this PB...

That site makes me laugh - anyone that buys that would have blown the money on iffy trades anyway.

The page is a laugh a minute...

"This Costs Less Than Wall Street Bankers Pay For a Few Bottles of Champagne on a Friday Lunch! I Know - I've Done it!"

BTW - why does he still have 89 copies for sale?

 

[pboyles]

lol! I was hoping you'd see this PB...

That site makes me laugh - anyone that buys that would have blown the money on iffy trades anyway.

The page is a laugh a minute...

"This Costs Less Than Wall Street Bankers Pay For a Few Bottles of Champagne on a Friday Lunch! I Know - I've Done it!"

BTW - why does he still have 89 copies for sale?

Its like reading the Sunday Sport.

» News Archive | Sunday Sport

 

[wackypete2]

lol! I was hoping you'd see this PB...

That site makes me laugh - anyone that buys that would have blown the money on iffy trades anyway.

The page is a laugh a minute...

"This Costs Less Than Wall Street Bankers Pay For a Few Bottles of Champagne on a Friday Lunch! I Know - I've Done it!"

BTW - why does he still have 89 copies for sale?

He must be using iceberg orders

Peter

 

[hwsteele]

Crabs? Odd pets. Great food but odd pets...

Was there some nudity there you had to black out?

They are fun to watch but at 1 and 1/2 inches they make lacking meals.
The cat likes to watch them also but I'm guess he disagrees with me on the meal part.
No nudity just part of the tank in the shot from the way I took the picture, had the picture been a week earlier you would have seen Mrs. Crabs while she was mulching!
I'm sure that picture would have been quickly taken down though.

 

[vergis92]

I tend to agree with what you say, but in regard to MurreyMaths I do find some accuracy.

I am not saying that MM is the answer to a traders prayers, but it is worth some consideration.

As to the rest....Well some of it stacks up for some of the time and some not....Just like the % Williams indicator, MACD, AO,AC, et al., which is why I favour Price Action trading with MM Levels in front of anything else.

Having said that, I am always happy to learn something new. Learning and
testing is the fun part of trading. Making a living is a much more serious business.

The only thing I found practically useful is Gann's price-time symmetry, and the morning - afternoon trend trend symmetry in the daily market session.

But think about it, it's like those Fibonacci numbers, these things work because traders (including me and you) act at the same time, we induce these highs and lows, it has nothing to do with mystical codes or the cycle of the moon.

Even if you study market charts such as (daily temperature futures) which are controlled by nature 100% you will probably find that symmetry and Fibonacci numbers work much worse than human influenced financial markets where the 'believers' make them happen


Moreover, the US weather department has devoted enormous money and scientific resources to predict extreme weather phenomena, to make evacuations in time and save lives and avert damages.

If Gann's theory had a basis in reality these scientists would have found the secrets by now, they would be using his techniques to exactly predict extreme temperatures and the conditions that cause hurricanes and all sorts of things, and they have done good research, but none of it is based on Gann's work or his ideas

 

[mvtrader2000]

The only thing I found practically useful is Gann's price-time symmetry, and the morning - afternoon trend trend symmetry in the daily market session.

But think about it, it's like those Fibonacci numbers, these things work because traders (including me) act at the same time, we induce these highs and lows, it has nothing to do with mystical codes or the cycle of the moon.

Even if you study market charts such as (daily temperature futures) which are controlled by nature 100% you will probably find that symmetry and Fibonacci numbers work much worse than human influenced financial markets where the 'believers' make them happen

My true belief in regard to trading is that a really experienced (or gifted) trader could trade using crop circles if they themselves believed in that as a working confirmation.

Most of the time, successful traders are reading and reacting to price action and nothing more, but they need/want/crave some form of confirmation and so use Gann or Fibonacci or MACD or Williams etc and yet if they set up a few support levels (or MM Levels) and a trend line or two, AND believed in them, that would work just as well.

There are really only two secrets to success in this business.

The first is that there is no substitute for learning your art - really thoroughly.

Then there is "The Big Secret". The one secret that makes traders fabulously wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice...........You know......The holy grail that so many traders have searched high and low for. The Secret that they have collectively paid hundreds and thousand of dollars for....and yet failed to find.

People say that there really is no such thing, but they are wrong. There is a "big Secret".

Unfortunately I can't tell you what that secret is, because if I did it would no longer be a secret.

 

[hwsteele]

Sorry I have not been posting in the last couple of days much of anything.
I have two great reasons why...
1:It is spring break and all five of the kids are out of school...:clap:
2:I got the flu from this wonderful stranger on the TRE ( a train that runs from Fort Worth to Dallas) just days after i got over a kinda bad cold in fact.
I will be back very soon to add to what I have posted and to answer a few folks.

 

[DionysusToast]

My true belief in regard to trading is that a really experienced (or gifted) trader could trade using crop circles if they themselves believed in that as a working confirmation.

Whilst this is true, it is the trader that is making money and not the crop circles.

The crop circles have no inherent edge.

 

[mvtrader2000]

Whilst this is true, it is the trader that is making money and not the crop circles.

The crop circles have no inherent edge.

Exactly, that was my point.

It is only the traders belief in them (crop circle or MACD or whatever) that gives him/her the confidence to "pull the trigger". It is in reality, the traders understanding of price action that is their real edge.

 

[bbmac]

Re discussion above in last few posts: whilst it is very probably true that tech analysis (and analysis generally ?) is to some lesser or greater extent self fulfilling, a trader's edge lies in it's repeating nature that delivers a positive expectancy (howsoever it is derived - PA or whatever) -coupled- with his ability to act on it with sufficient impunity to realise the conistent gain that it's historical/theoroetical performamce suggests is available when this is done.

G/L