S&P 500 & other indexes - intraday. Plus chat

I have got a theory which I will share and that is the T.V. presenters will subconsciously wear colours that indicate their thoughts on market direction. Ties for blokes.

The blue end of the spectrum is up and the red end - down !

Whites, Greys and blacks are neutral/don't knows
 
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I have got a theory which I will share and that is the T.V. presenters will subconsciously wear colours that indicate their thoughts on market direction. Ties for blokes.

The blue end of the spectrum is up and the red end - down !

Whites, Greys and blacks are don't knows

Let's see what happens today

Using Bloomberg
Francine - green - up
Guy - blue tie - up
Deirdre - blue - up
Dom - blue tie - up
Sarah - pink - down
Sheila - blue - up
Erik - yellow tie - down
Stephanie - blue - up
Scarlet - red - down
Mannus - red tie - down

1 point for correct EOD forecast
 
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It has Pete but that means I am trading at 8.30pm at night in the UK and that interferes with putting kids to bed/etc. I know what you mean though - the last hour is a good time to trade.

What I'm trying to do is adapt what I do for the European open - the other end of the clock.

Ah, yes, my bad. I keep forgetting the time zone difference :eek:
Just slap me over the head!

Peter
 
I don't think Bloomberg presenters know anything about market direction, even subconciously lol.

Tough conditions today.. having to be patient and see if any setups develop. Think we may grind higher today but not confident.

On another note, my neighbours in the flat above seem to be having a party in the middle of the day. I wonder if they do this every Tuesday when I am usually at work. Very disctracting.
 
I don't think Bloomberg presenters know anything about market direction, even subconciously lol.

Tough conditions today.. having to be patient and see if any setups develop. Think we may grind higher today but not confident.

On another note, my neighbours in the flat above seem to be having a party in the middle of the day. I wonder if they do this every Tuesday when I am usually at work. Very disctracting.

It's one of those days - my dog goes off in the rain ! I walk miles whistling for it !
Now it's turned up looking very pleased. The crumpet down the road I expect !
 
Today's real trade.
 

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Today's real trade.

Nice trade (y) On days like today I wish I could trade in this style.

Out of interest did you use to spreadbet before opening a futures account? And in your opinion what size trading account do you think you need before switching to futures and trading 1 lots?

At the moment I am saving up two pools of money... one to trade with and one to live off. I think if I don't mix the two I will have more chance of success. Now I have to decided how long I want the 'live off' pool to last before I go back to work if it doesn't work out and how big the trading pool should be. With the ideal scenario that I never have to back to work as the trading goes so well of course!
 
German Chancellor Merkel says Europe will not have shared liability for debt as long as she lives
 
Nice trade (y) On days like today I wish I could trade in this style.

Out of interest did you use to spreadbet before opening a futures account? And in your opinion what size trading account do you think you need before switching to futures and trading 1 lots?

At the moment I am saving up two pools of money... one to trade with and one to live off. I think if I don't mix the two I will have more chance of success. Now I have to decided how long I want the 'live off' pool to last before I go back to work if it doesn't work out and how big the trading pool should be. With the ideal scenario that I never have to back to work as the trading goes so well of course!

Hope you make it

:rolleyes:
 
Nice trade (y) On days like today I wish I could trade in this style. :LOL::p

Out of interest did you use to spreadbet before opening a futures account? And in your opinion what size trading account do you think you need before switching to futures and trading 1 lots?

At the moment I am saving up two pools of money... one to trade with and one to live off. I think if I don't mix the two I will have more chance of success. Now I have to decided how long I want the 'live off' pool to last before I go back to work if it doesn't work out and how big the trading pool should be. With the ideal scenario that I never have to back to work as the trading goes so well of course!

Oddly enough I look at your 10pts from yesterday and think to myself that I wish I could trade that style.

So I got into this because I tried to distill trading down into something I could entirely automate. I had a moderate amount of success doing it but realised that to build something that genuinely could weather all market conditions, I would need to learn how to trade all those market conditions and then code it up. I have never gone back to coding it up. I have a background in software development/system engineering for the record.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-polls/151840-automated-vs-discretionary.html#post1876112

I read lots of books on trading. I decided that swing trading is what I should be doing. I eventually got it to work but I found that I really struggled holding positions overnight. I managed to do this but it didn't feel right. I did this via a spreadbetting account as my thought was to learn on spreadbetting and then scale up to DMA. Every now and again I would splurge out and day trade but because I didn't know what I was doing, would just blow money. I thought I was just impulse trading.

I would read the conventional wisdom that you needed to find a trading edge/style that suited your personality. It took me about 18months to realise that my personality was geared to very short term trading. This is why I would revisit it again and again and blow money doing it.

So I was faced with a dilemma. Intraday was apparently notoriously difficult. You would chew your way through your cash very easily. Overtrading was definitely on the table, the horror stories plentiful about those that had tried intraday and failed miserably. I thought I would try it on the spreadbetting account. It didn't work. The size of the spread and lack of visibility of volume information was a killer for me.

I went back to reading again. I figured TA wasn't where it was at for me. I read noBS (John Grady) stuff and also started looking at FT71. I then decided to just go for it as the conventional wisdom stated intraday is not really possible on on SB and switched to DMA and never looked back. It took me about 4 weeks to move from losing to BE and then about another 2 months from BE to +ve but it was shaky and full of over-trading. It took some time and a good sample size before I started filtering out the less than optimum trades and applying some discipline. I also started to get a nose for what may happen and how far to run trades. It is a continual process and my trading continues to evolve. The main difficulties I have had are psych related rather than anything else. Moving up in size also had effects on me too.

It is a lot of hard work for 4 ticks a day and frankly, it is the only way I can trade with any degree of consistency and success.

You should also be aware that I came into this game well capitalised to endure the cost of my education which has not been trivial.

My recommendation intraday for 1 ES contract is $5k. It's what I feel comfortable with. I was $20k per contract swing trading. These are entirely personal choices and your risk tolerance, trading style and edge will determine how much leverage you can safely use.

Good luck. Be kind to yourself especially when faced with your failures. Embrace these failures and learn from them. One last point. The fantasy of trading bears little resemblance to the reality if it. Set realistic goals and expectations. Don't be disappointed if you don't hit them. It's a hard game.
 
I really appreciate your detailed and honest reply Rob.. I'll digest it and respond shortly. And Pat I'm aware its not easy, maybe when I explain my background more you'll see I didn't just wake up today and think 'I want to be a futures trader'.

Anyway, here is today's trade. Not my normal style but I tried to adapt to the conditions. Went with double my normal risk but half the stop loss and target. Worked out well... could have held a little longer to see if price did hit the top of the range again (looks like it will shortly) but didn't want to get greedy. Also I was trying out ETX... I like their setup more than IG, a lot cleaner. But spreads not as good on lots of products. I think I'll keep this account for my experimental trades.
 

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Oddly enough I look at your 10pts from yesterday and think to myself that I wish I could trade that style.

So I got into this because I tried to distill trading down into something I could entirely automate. I had a moderate amount of success doing it but realised that to build something that genuinely could weather all market conditions, I would need to learn how to trade all those market conditions and then code it up. I have never gone back to coding it up. I have a background in software development/system engineering for the record.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-polls/151840-automated-vs-discretionary.html#post1876112

I read lots of books on trading. I decided that swing trading is what I should be doing. I eventually got it to work but I found that I really struggled holding positions overnight. I managed to do this but it didn't feel right. I did this via a spreadbetting account as my thought was to learn on spreadbetting and then scale up to DMA. Every now and again I would splurge out and day trade but because I didn't know what I was doing, would just blow money. I thought I was just impulse trading.

I would read the conventional wisdom that you needed to find a trading edge/style that suited your personality. It took me about 18months to realise that my personality was geared to very short term trading. This is why I would revisit it again and again and blow money doing it.

So I was faced with a dilemma. Intraday was apparently notoriously difficult. You would chew your way through your cash very easily. Overtrading was definitely on the table, the horror stories plentiful about those that had tried intraday and failed miserably. I thought I would try it on the spreadbetting account. It didn't work. The size of the spread and lack of visibility of volume information was a killer for me.

I went back to reading again. I figured TA wasn't where it was at for me. I read noBS (John Grady) stuff and also started looking at FT71. I then decided to just go for it as the conventional wisdom stated intraday is not really possible on on SB and switched to DMA and never looked back. It took me about 4 weeks to move from losing to BE and then about another 2 months from BE to +ve but it was shaky and full of over-trading. It took some time and a good sample size before I started filtering out the less than optimum trades and applying some discipline. I also started to get a nose for what may happen and how far to run trades. It is a continual process and my trading continues to evolve. The main difficulties I have had are psych related rather than anything else. Moving up in size also had effects on me too.

It is a lot of hard work for 4 ticks a day and frankly, it is the only way I can trade with any degree of consistency and success.

You should also be aware that I came into this game well capitalised to endure the cost of my education which has not been trivial.

My recommendation intraday for 1 ES contract is $5k. It's what I feel comfortable with. I was $20k per contract swing trading. These are entirely personal choices and your risk tolerance, trading style and edge will determine how much leverage you can safely use.

Good luck. Be kind to yourself especially when faced with your failures. Embrace these failures and learn from them. One last point. The fantasy of trading bears little resemblance to the reality if it. Set realistic goals and expectations. Don't be disappointed if you don't hit them. It's a hard game.

Thanks again for a great response, I really appreciate you taking the time. Posts like this are what I should have been focusing on earlier. Like most people I wasted an awful lot of time looking for indicators and learning all kinds of TA. I am happy that I have now ditched all of that and now focus on simple price action and mainly support/resistance.

Despite being happy swing trading I also fall into the traps you described. I hate having a position on overnight. I find myself staying up really late instead which is just stupid really... and I often try to day trade without the proper tools or knowledge and lose quite a bit (especially if my stupidity goes up another notch and I start revenge trading). While I am getting better at fighting the urge to do this I think I know inside that this would suit my personality and I just need to learn to do it properly. I think I would keep the swing trading going in the spreadbetting account as well... it doesn't take much time from the day and may offset some losses I get when I first start with DMA.

I don't want to bore anyone so I won't give too much on my background but just to prove I haven't just come up with this idea today. I fell into working in banking after graduating with an Economics degree. I never took my studies or career seriously, I just figured I'd work things out as they went along (I was pretty immature if I'm honest with myself) I have worked in serveral back office and more recently middle office jobs over the last 6 years. I had to move around a few times mainly to try and keep one step ahead of all the cuts. Now I work inMO for an equity swaps desk. The good thing is that it is based on the trading floor and the pay is decent... the bad news is that the hours are long and its horrible having a goal so close physically but so far away in reality. Despite having friends who have move from MO to FO it is very rare and even more so after the rogue trading incidents of recent times. And of course even if I get a FO job it won't be the type of trading I want to do anyway.

To cut a long story short I was reading Market Wizards last year and I realised lots of the stories were of people in roughly the same situation as me. But they didn't just wait around for an opportunity, they opened accounts and started trading! So this is what I've decided to do! You only live once and I'd rather try and fail than fail to try.

I am certainly aware of the journey ahead. I know it is not going to be easy. On the plus side my cost of living is low (especially for London), my girlfriend has a steady well paid job and I have enough experience to get back into work should I need to. So I am happy with the risk I am going to take.

Thanks for your thoughts on account size. I had a similar number in mind. But I guess the more the better and despite my eagerness to start there is no real rush.

Sorry for clogging up this thread with my story. I appreciated any feedback/advice/wake up calls anybody wants to offer on the back of it! :LOL:
 
Oddly enough I look at your 10pts from yesterday and think to myself that I wish I could trade that style.

So I got into this because I tried to distill trading down into something I could entirely automate. I had a moderate amount of success doing it but realised that to build something that genuinely could weather all market conditions, I would need to learn how to trade all those market conditions and then code it up. I have never gone back to coding it up. I have a background in software development/system engineering for the record.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-polls/151840-automated-vs-discretionary.html#post1876112

I read lots of books on trading. I decided that swing trading is what I should be doing. I eventually got it to work but I found that I really struggled holding positions overnight. I managed to do this but it didn't feel right. I did this via a spreadbetting account as my thought was to learn on spreadbetting and then scale up to DMA. Every now and again I would splurge out and day trade but because I didn't know what I was doing, would just blow money. I thought I was just impulse trading.

I would read the conventional wisdom that you needed to find a trading edge/style that suited your personality. It took me about 18months to realise that my personality was geared to very short term trading. This is why I would revisit it again and again and blow money doing it.

So I was faced with a dilemma. Intraday was apparently notoriously difficult. You would chew your way through your cash very easily. Overtrading was definitely on the table, the horror stories plentiful about those that had tried intraday and failed miserably. I thought I would try it on the spreadbetting account. It didn't work. The size of the spread and lack of visibility of volume information was a killer for me.

I went back to reading again. I figured TA wasn't where it was at for me. I read noBS (John Grady) stuff and also started looking at FT71. I then decided to just go for it as the conventional wisdom stated intraday is not really possible on on SB and switched to DMA and never looked back. It took me about 4 weeks to move from losing to BE and then about another 2 months from BE to +ve but it was shaky and full of over-trading. It took some time and a good sample size before I started filtering out the less than optimum trades and applying some discipline. I also started to get a nose for what may happen and how far to run trades. It is a continual process and my trading continues to evolve. The main difficulties I have had are psych related rather than anything else. Moving up in size also had effects on me too.

It is a lot of hard work for 4 ticks a day and frankly, it is the only way I can trade with any degree of consistency and success.

You should also be aware that I came into this game well capitalised to endure the cost of my education which has not been trivial.

My recommendation intraday for 1 ES contract is $5k. It's what I feel comfortable with. I was $20k per contract swing trading. These are entirely personal choices and your risk tolerance, trading style and edge will determine how much leverage you can safely use.

Good luck. Be kind to yourself especially when faced with your failures. Embrace these failures and learn from them. One last point. The fantasy of trading bears little resemblance to the reality if it. Set realistic goals and expectations. Don't be disappointed if you don't hit them. It's a hard game.

Great post robster thank you for taking the time and thanks for the thread been interesting reading. That noBS book is interesting read it a few times, I think markets in profile was one of the best books I've read even though I don't use it because I'm still learning and spreadbetting still excellent though. Did you do all of FT71s webinars?
 
Sorry for clogging up this thread with my story. I appreciated any feedback/advice/wake up calls anybody wants to offer on the back of it! :LOL:

Your story is no less important than mine. We're all trying to do the same thing and sharing information and experiences is great. (y)(y)
 
Great post robster thank you for taking the time and thanks for the thread been interesting reading. That noBS book is interesting read it a few times, I think markets in profile was one of the best books I've read even though I don't use it because I'm still learning and spreadbetting still excellent though. Did you do all of FT71s webinars?

No - I haven't. I watched his tweets. I got most of the structural steer from Daltons Mind over Markets and reading about auction market theory. It started to fall into place well before that but these points of reference solidified and crystalised the market as I now understand it.

I occasionally look at FT71's tweets as a point of reference but I'm generally doing stuff on my own these days. I'm prone to being easily influenced by other people's opinions so I isolate myself and trade my own opinions. Seems to work so far :):whistling
 
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