Mike Baghdady - should I take a course or not?

[the hare]

In life there are always different ways of doing something and without checking your peers or alternative methods you will not know how good you are.

And did you think that MB was credible ?

Didn't you spot any glaringly obvious contradictions in his pitch ? Particularly with respect to position sizing ?

Why do you think FXStreet terminated their relationship him ? (and trust me, the people over at FXStreet would pimp their own mother for a cigarette)

One single trade repeatedly shown by MB allegedly made greater percentage returns than I've made in the previous 3 years. Having said that, I'm not filing for bankruptcy, firing staff, charging people for training, or leaving creditors unpaid.

Of course the leverage required to achieve these returns (presuming its even possible to find a broker prepared to offer leverage at those insane levels) would have meant the complete destruction of the account from any of the losing trades pointed out during the webinar. He was asked this question practically every week by traders whose head where presumably filled with matter other than straw, and every week he ducked it !

So why would any sane individual wish to compare their performance against such a charlatan ? The only performance metrics appear to be 2 bankruptcies originating from trading losses, and a string of failed businesses.

There's only 3 reasons for being in that webinar

A) shills in the employ of MB / FXStreet
B) morons with staw for brains
C) or for the lulz

 

[LaserTrader]

It's quite clear that practically anything goes these days. It's been a while since I've seen anything removed

As I said, the site is happy to be complicit.

To be brutally honest MB does himself so favors. Time and time again he and his staff have made statements on this thread that where clearly untrue. For example, he repeatedly claims he was never bankrupt. Documents where then provided to indicate he's been bankrupted at least twice, and from trading losses

I dont recall seeing any posts from MB on here.

I think morally and ethically t2w are taking the right line.

Butt kissing to the extreme

Obviously this is not the case for many of the posts, but you are saying that you think it both morally and ethically right for people to make any unfounded allegation they like, to attack a person and their business with malicious intent and carry out illegal and criminal acts ?

So what is your real name Hare and what company do you work for? Or are you saying its only morally and ethically right when its not done to you? (I am making a point, please do not answer with your details).

 

[the hare]

As I said, the site is happy to be complicit.

I dont recall seeing any posts from MB on here.

Butt kissing to the extreme

Obviously this is not the case for many of the posts, but you are saying that you think it both morally and ethically right for people to make any unfounded allegation they like, to attack a person and their business with malicious intent and carry out illegal and criminal acts ?

So what is your real name Hare and what company do you work for? Or are you saying its only morally and ethically right when its not done to you? (I am making a point, please do not answer with your details).

You can never really know who is posting, but on numerous occasions posters who where alledgedly members of staff have written in the first person, for example, "I have never filed for bankruptcy" "I owe no debts to anyone" etc. I think its a safe assumption to make MB wrote at least parts of those posts.

As for butt kissing t2w, lets just make the position clear. I have zero respect for MB and his games, but compared to t2w, the mans a saint ! Hopefully that makes my position clear, I'd say more, but it would probably be deleted.

I don't think its fair to make unfounded allegations at all. However many of the allegations where backed by documentary evidence. What certainly isn't fair is MB exerting pressure on companies such as t2w to suppress that evidence

 

[LaserTrader]

If I recall correctly the two people you mention who are 'out to destroy' Baghdady didnt bother their arses to turn up for the webinar, it was left to the members to join the webinar to help prevent other people from falling victim to him..

There must have been about 100 people in the webinar many with anonomous handles so its impossible to say who was in there.

Surely it is good for people to see a product and to judge it for themseleves, so I dont understand the drive to attack the webinar. Unless of course the method/system has some merit you dont want people to see and the attack on this site is not enough?

Les Johnston (Pipsplease) and Howard Abernethy (Digbyarbuthnot) have been exposed as a couple of ex-employees (one a former director) who have used this forum to launch a vicious deliberate attack with the aim of destroying a business in a vengeful manor.

 

[wackypete2]

Surely it is good for people to see a product and to judge it for themseleves

Hare already asked you if you thought MB was credible and I'm asking what you thought of the content provided in the webinar. You mentioned it's good to see how others trade, and I agree, so what did you think?

My answer: Red flag and large hit on credibility in the first minute when he said he wasn't trading live, while the webinar was billed as "Live Trading the NY Session". Next his explanation of price behavior not what anyone should have expected from a trader with his 30+ years experience. That's my opinion.

Peter

 

[pboyles]

. Unless of course the method/system has some merit you dont want people to see and the attack on this site is not enough?

[.[/B]

What like he's going to reveal the secrets the pros don't want you to know? Perhaps it's the illuminati that are out to get him, or the Jews, or the CIA.

Do us a favour, if the guy knew anything he wouldn't have 2 or 3 bankrupctcies under his belt. Not to mention a succession of failed companies.

 

[LaserTrader]

You can never really know who is posting, but on numerous occasions posters who where alledgedly members of staff have written in the first person, for example, "I have never filed for bankruptcy" "I owe no debts to anyone" etc. I think its a safe assumption to make MB wrote at least parts of those posts./QUOTE]

I've not seen that but you might have a point if thats the case.

I don't think its fair to make unfounded allegations at all. However many of the allegations where backed by documentary evidence. What certainly isn't fair is MB exerting pressure on companies such as t2w to suppress that evidence

In my view, it is equally unfair to say someone filed for bankruptcy in the past and there were inaccuracies in an advert therefore the training etc is a scam, con etc. Remember there is not a list of customers on here complaining about the product or not getting the product. The people who started the thread and perpetuating it have been show to have a malicious intent as ex company people.

Wrongdoing against someone you accuse of wrongdoing does not make it right.

 

[the hare]

You can never really know who is posting, but on numerous occasions posters who where alledgedly members of staff have written in the first person, for example, "I have never filed for bankruptcy" "I owe no debts to anyone" etc. I think its a safe assumption to make MB wrote at least parts of those posts./QUOTE]

I've not seen that but you might have a point if thats the case.




In my view, it is equally unfair to say someone filed for bankruptcy in the past and there were inaccuracies in an advert therefore the training etc is a scam, con etc. Remember there is not a list of customers on here complaining about the product or not getting the product. The people who started the thread and perpetuating it have been show to have a malicious intent as ex company people.

Wrongdoing against someone you accuse of wrongdoing does not make it right.

The bankruptcy was dragged into this discussion for a number of reasons

MB claimed to the courts that his only income was from training. He claimed to his potential students he was a full time trader. That discrepancy needed to be highlighted.

MB claimed to the courts he had limited assets. He claimed to his potential students and turtles that he was personally funding the project.

These claims where made on national television, and national newspapers. The bankruptcy proceedings where brought up to illustrate these discrepancies.

MB then went on a campaign of attempting to bury this information. He repeatedly denied the bankruptcies on several forums. Are people supposed to just watch him do that ?

 

[LaserTrader]

Hare already asked you if you thought MB was credible and I'm asking what you thought of the content provided in the webinar. You mentioned it's good to see how others trade, and I agree, so what did you think?

My answer: Red flag and large hit on credibility in the first minute when he said he wasn't trading live, while the webinar was billed as "Live Trading the NY Session". Next his explanation of price behavior not what anyone should have expected from a trader with his 30+ years experience. That's my opinion.

Peter

My reason for posting on here was due to what I saw as a malicious attack which had nothing to do with the methodology taught. I don’t think this is the right place for me to comment on the webinar content as it is not the right environment. If I say it was good, I will get attacked and accused of being a Baghdady stooge, if I say it was bad people will try and use that to justify their malicious comments.

Unlike PBoyles I do think its good to see what others do. There is always a better way so its worth keeping your eyes open

 

[pboyles]

Who would you buy training or software from. A guy who made millions trading and who has trained successful hedge fund managers or a guy that lost his shirt at least twice trading and who lied about training hedge fund managers?

Baghdady claimed to be the former but is in fact the latter. What's wrong with informing potential 'customers' of those facts?

 

[LaserTrader]

The bankruptcy was dragged into this discussion for a number of reasons

MB claimed to the courts that his only income was from training. He claimed to his potential students he was a full time trader. That discrepancy needed to be highlighted.

MB claimed to the courts he had limited assets. He claimed to his potential students and turtles that he was personally funding the project.

These claims where made on national television, and national newspapers. The bankruptcy proceedings where brought up to illustrate these discrepancies.

MB then went on a campaign of attempting to bury this information. He repeatedly denied the bankruptcies on several forums. Are people supposed to just watch him do that ?

Hare, you are missing the point I was making. I did not say commenting on the bankrupcy was wrong, I was saying that associating other inacurate comments to it in order to try and justify then was wrong. Lets try again.

In my view, it is equally unfair to say someone filed for bankruptcy in the past and there were inaccuracies in an advert therefore the training etc is a scam, con etc. Remember there is not a list of customers on here complaining about the product or not getting the product. The people who started the thread and perpetuating it have been show to have a malicious intent as ex company people.

 

[LaserTrader]

Who would you buy training or software from. A guy who made millions trading and who has trained successful hedge fund managers or a guy that lost his shirt at least twice trading and who lied about training hedge fund managers?

Baghdady claimed to be the former but is in fact the latter. What's wrong with informing potential 'customers' of those facts?

I am not saying letting people know that is wrong (although I am not sure the lied part is correct). I have said all along that there is nothing wrong with that.

What is wrong that the thread was setup as a vengeful attack rather than an informative discussion. Also that this topic has included illegal and criminal actions.
There have been a range of unfounded allegations such as con, scam etc which have been associated with other information to try and legitimise them.

 

[the hare]

Lets get some perspective on the scale of this fraud.

Think for one moment about "the turtles". In many respects, I have very little sympathy, 2 minutes of due diligence should have been enough for most people to walk away. On the other hand, their weakness was exploited by a vendor making fraudulent claims.

MB asked those people to sacrifice careers, several handed over up to 50,000 in cash to pay for training.

MB has / had no public track record at running such a project previously
MB's own personal track record indicates failure after failure.
MB was in sufficiently capitalized to even consider undertaking the project

However despite that, he chose to take a punt, hoping the cheap phishing exercise undertaken during the turtles application project would bring in enough cash to keep things ticking over.

He risked those people's careers and savings knowing that he didn't have a hope in hell of pulling this off. He was, and still is happy to mislead anyone gullible enough to fall for this nonsense.

Can you imagine how many turtles would have applied if they'd been told the truth. No track record, no funding, that they'd be expected to pay for the privilege of losing even more money.

He now continues to lie regarding the events leading to the demise of the turtles. He now uses the misfortune of tens of thousands of actual traders who lost capital in the PFG Best fiasco to hide his failings.

The issue now is that he has nowhere to go other than telling further untruths, and I'm sure all involved in this fraud will continue to make a living over the short term, and good luck to them, but they won't do it without some opposition.

 

[LaserTrader]

He now continues to lie regarding the events leading to the demise of the turtles. He now uses the misfortune of tens of thousands of actual traders who lost capital in the PFG Best fiasco to hide his failings.
.

OK your post contained a number of things which personally I do not think are justified so I am not going to comment on.

However this quote is a classic example of the creative writing of a ranter looking to enlarge a situation. So now you are claiming Baghdady is using the misfortune of others to his own gain..


Let’s look at this from a different view. There have been accusations of scam and fraud made on numerous occasions with claims that customers (not Turtles) were somehow cheated out of their money. As no posts have been made from customers to confirm this in any way, do you accept these claims are unfounded? Stick to the facts, no cheap association tricks and inference

By the way, just a reminder of what I said:
Hare, you are missing the point I was making. I did not say commenting on the bankrupcy was wrong, I was saying that associating other inacurate comments to it in order to try and justify them was wrong.

I suggest when you reply to peoples posts that you actually read their comment properly and respond instead of just using it as an excuse to blurt out whatever is on your mind

Les Johnston (Pipsplease) and Howard Abernethy (Digbyarbuthnot) have been exposed as a couple of ex-employees (one a former director) who have used this forum to launch a vicious deliberate attack with the aim of destroying a business in a vengeful manor.

 

[the hare]

However this quote is a classic example of the creative writing of a ranter looking to enlarge a situation. So now you are claiming Baghdady is using the misfortune of others to his own gain..

Absolutely no reason was given for the demise of the turtles project. His only public comment IIRC when asked was "I am very proud of them"

A few weeks later PFG fail, and MB jumped on the opportunity like a drowning man clutching to a life belt.

It's opportunistic, its deceitful and its clearly untrue

Public domain records from UK companies house show the turtles resigning well in advance of the PFG failure. What sort of person would capitalize on those events to fraudulently promote their own agenda ?

He could say, the turtles where NOT sufficiently capitalized, and failed to cover their costs, but instead he tells a blatant lie that the failure was someone else's fault, and that he's entirely blameless

Even if the PFG failure had resulted I loss of capital you might have thought he'd be sensible enough to diversify the groups risk across several brokers. As for his choice of PFG in the first instance, you don't have to dig too deep to see what was going on there :smart:

 

[pboyles]

OK your post contained a number of things which personally I do not think are justified so I am not going to comment on.

However this quote is a classic example of the creative writing of a ranter looking to enlarge a situation. So now you are claiming Baghdady is using the misfortune of others to his own gain..


Let’s look at this from a different view. There have been accusations of scam and fraud made on numerous occasions with claims that customers (not Turtles) were somehow cheated out of their money. As no posts have been made from customers to confirm this in any way, do you accept these claims are unfounded? Stick to the facts, no cheap association tricks and inference

By the way, just a reminder of what I said:
Hare, you are missing the point I was making. I did not say commenting on the bankrupcy was wrong, I was saying that associating other inacurate comments to it in order to try and justify them was wrong.

I suggest when you reply to peoples posts that you actually read their comment properly and respond instead of just using it as an excuse to blurt out whatever is on your mind

Les Johnston (Pipsplease) and Howard Abernethy (Digbyarbuthnot) have been exposed as a couple of ex-employees (one a former director) who have used this forum to launch a vicious deliberate attack with the aim of destroying a business in a vengeful manor.

The bankruptcy is relevant in a number of ways. It included sworn testimony from Baghdady that showed he made zero from trading. At the same time he was presenting himself as a successful trader who had made millions.

 

[BobbyBB]

Never forget that the 'Turtles' were a group picked up by a very very successful floor trader at the time, Richard Dennis. EVERYONE on the Chicago floors had heard of Richard Dennis and knew about his trading success, afterall it's impossibleto swing clips of 1,000 lot Bond positions around if you don't have the CASH margin.

The point I'm making is very simple - Dennis was a certified trading star with a certified multiyear track record of success. He then thought 'hmmm, wonder if I can teach what I know and then fund some of the successful students? Well, there's only one way to find out...."

Many years later macdaddy turns up and says 'I'm going to do the same, I'm going to creat my own Turtles'. But NOBODY had ever heard of him and there was NO multiyear track record of success.

Is it therefore any wonder that the whole thing collapsed on itself as no doubt he used the unsuccessful equation of garbage in - garbage out in relation to his teachings.

 

[kapitansb]

Never forget that the 'Turtles' were a group picked up by a very very successful floor trader at the time, Richard Dennis. EVERYONE on the Chicago floors had heard of Richard Dennis and knew about his trading success, afterall it's impossibleto swing clips of 1,000 lot Bond positions around if you don't have the CASH margin.

The point I'm making is very simple - Dennis was a certified trading star with a certified multiyear track record of success. He then thought 'hmmm, wonder if I can teach what I know and then fund some of the successful students? Well, there's only one way to find out...."

Many years later macdaddy turns up and says 'I'm going to do the same, I'm going to creat my own Turtles'. But NOBODY had ever heard of him and there was NO multiyear track record of success.

Is it therefore any wonder that the whole thing collapsed on itself as no doubt he used the unsuccessful equation of garbage in - garbage out in relation to his teachings.

Dennis gave accounts ranging from $250,000 to $2 million ,and it was in 1984 .

Baghdady was talking about 100k in 2011,but I think only talking .

 

[kapitansb]

Les Johnston (Pipsplease) and Howard Abernethy (Digbyarbuthnot) have been exposed as a couple of ex-employees (one a former director) who have used this forum to launch a vicious deliberate attack with the aim of destroying a business in a vengeful manor.

This is funny!!!

I attended the free training @Training Traders .

Introduction was from Les Johnson ,he told the story of himself .

Pipsplease do you remember all fairy tales you used to tell people ?How you was waiting for an Egyptian visa to go to learn from MB ,how you was trading using 21 rules (and you missed only one and instead of +50k was breakeven).
You introduced Mike Dougles and other staff -and everyone was losing money till you met your guru and started winning .
If you remember tell us again ,still have a moral problem who is worse ,a fraudster or people cooperating with him for profit .

 

[pboyles]

You don't need a visa for Egypt.

Go on, tell us more, this is the guy that was threatening us a couple of years ago for exposing Baghdady.