Mike Baghdady - should I take a course or not?

[Riddick]

Nonsense and you know it

practically EVERY allegation has been backed up with official documentation that's available in the public domain. His multiple bankruptcies from "trading losses", a string of liquidated companies and angry creditors, not to mention his numerous wildly exaggerated claims, all of which have been proven to be untrue.

There's nothing wild about expressing the truth

The vast majority of the posts are not as crystal clear as you would propose, and that is backed up with the comments from Malcolm Steel. This forum is an outright attack and anybody who even has a whisper of a good word to say for Mike Baghdady or his products it attacked and ridiculed by a group of serial posters. Who have gone so far as to harass him online during a presentation, screaming profanities and colluding on T2W in order to carry off the heist.
The arguments that you would propose to be the truth are thin to say the very least.

 

[rsh01]

There's nothing wild about expressing the truth

I am sure (most) vendors beg to differ

 

[pboyles]

I do not think that what you are saying here is very fair Hare. Most of the comments and the large body of this forum is hearsay and wild accusations.

Let's not forget the guy has a $5 million bankruptcy behind him and a court said his previous actions amounted to common law fraud. Even if everything else said about him was untrue he'd still be one of the worst chancers ever seen in this corrupt industry, and that's saying something.

 

[Riddick]

Let's not forget the guy has a $5 million bankruptcy behind him and a court said his previous actions amounted to common law fraud.

Hearsay

Even if everything else said about him was untrue he'd still be one of the worst chancers ever seen in this corrupt industry, and that's saying something.

Wild accusation

:idea:

 

[pboyles]

:idea:

It's not hearsay, the official court documentation proving both of these matters is available on this thread.

 

[WhichWayNow]

FFS this is supposed to be a trading forum, you need to man up and stop acting like a wuss..

Pointing out that a vendor is lying, and deceiving innocent people, and potentially wreaking havoc with peoples lives isn't cyber-bullying, its the moral duty of any decent citizen

It is also a moral duty to identify when posters are decieving by offering unsubstantiated and or false claims in order to dicredit a vendor or individual. It is also moraly wrong for someone to attack a person without declaring any vested interest.

There have been a number of unsubstanciated claimes of fraud and con-artist implying that Mike Baghdady or his company have taken peoples money and not delivered.

pipsplease claimed to have handed money over to Mike Baghdady and therefore was in an ideal position to confirm or dispute the claims of fraud or con-artist. This is why I pushed the issue. After a number of refusals to answer if he got the money back of or the company delivered came this:

pipsplease 20/05:
What I may or may not have paid has absolutely nothing to do with any of the substantive issues raised about the conduct and behaviour of Mike Baghdady, Mr. Tuckey or anyone else.

Followed by this inferral of wrong doing despite failing to show his own perhaps contradictory example.

pipsplease 14/06:
What about those who paid for a course in advance before Baghdady did a runner?? They have been left out of pocket and with no course and no one to contact.

There is no evidence to back up this claim.



In response to:

the hare 16/06:

practically EVERY allegation has been backed up with official documentation that's available in the public domain. His multiple bankruptcies from "trading losses", a string of liquidated companies and angry creditors, not to mention his numerous wildly exaggerated claims, all of which have been proven to be untrue.

Just a few examples, there are many more.

Digbyarbuthnot 15/02:
Are you a legimate, successful trader Eric - or are you a dodgy fraud like Mike Baghdady?

Dodgy fraud has is no way been proven or supported by evidence.

alphadude 30/05:
Where is Baghdady now! he is missing from the scene; He is NOT getting away with scams... It's time to hit back.. the verdict is in; but the jury is out. Slapoopy is unlucky to get my attention. He is going dowwwwwwn

Scam is an unsubstantiated allegation and classed as libellous and the post is clearly a personal attack.

pipsplease 30/05:
It is wrong to point out the false advertising aimed at soliciting sales from the gullible and unwary..
It has not been shown that this was a deliberate act to solicite sales. Indeed the company website and documentation was corrected and the error acknowledged in the official compnay response. It was further implied that Bloomberg pulled the advert, this is not substantiated in any way.

It is wrong to point out the claim that Joe Tuckey (brother of Ben Tuckey) was not an institutional trader - an absolutely outrageous and totally misleading claim.
There has been no proof the back up the claim Joe Tucky was not an institutional trader.

It was wrong to expose the fact that Baghdady has debts in Australia, Dubai and the UK.
As part of normal business every company has debts, it is wrong to infer wrong doing from a company debt. Futher more when I attempted to verify these claims I was told there was no debt.

It was wrong to point out that Baghdady owes money to a number of creditors in the UK.
It it part of normal business operation for a company to have debts, it is not wrong to point these out, although not considered decent practice, it is wrong to infer wrongdoing.

It was wrong to point out that Baghdady fired people at will without the most basic referal to due process.
This is pure allegation without any proof.

It was wrong to expose the fact that Baghdady assaulted his VP Sales after refusing to pay him the money he was owed.
This is a serious accusation provided without any proof. In addition it is pure speculation as to the reason.

It was wrong to expose Baghdadys false claim to be "World Trading Champion" - a claim designed to solicit the gullible and unwary to part with money to spend time with the great man himself.
This is a repeat of an earlier claim (first one in this section) and an example of padding to increase impact. Again there is no proof that this was a deliberate act to soliciat sales, infact the company corrected the error.


It was wrong to expose the fact that Baghaday was bankrupt in the past despite his public denials.
This is a case of twisting the truth, the proof provided was of a Chapter 11 filing which was later withdrawn.


The only person responsible for bringing down the company (but which one - its a moving target) if indeed it is down is Baghdady himself. Control freak, marketing disaster, liar, fraud, failed trader, bankrupt!!!!
None of these defamatory claims have been proven. Please refer to the links I posted regarting new legistration.

Digbyarbuthnot 01/06: - the first response to a fake posting by someone pretending to be Mike Baghdady (suspiciously quick response and seeming to legitimise the fake post)

I'm very sorry to have asked a question about you on this forum.

Had I known how ridiculous and false your claims were, I would never have come to your office. Had I not been a little unsure about how a successful millionaire trader would have such a skanky office, your career would be flourishing. I never realised that the lies you told would come back to haunt you, that your 'career' was full of lies (head trader at NYBOT etc).

I understand now that I should have bowed to your undoubted superiority, knowledge, class & ego and hand you £5000 for sweet FA.

May you live happily with your mommy.

Clear defamatory comments to which the new legistration is aimed. The timing of this post just after someone faking a post by Mike Baghdady is also a concern.

The Leopard: 11/06:
According to some reports, some people (allegedly) paid £50,000 for a free opportunity

At least this post uses the word allegedly to acknowledge the lack of proof.

Digbyarbuthnot 11/06:
How desperate must LMAX be to want anything to do with Baghdady and his con tricks?

False allegation of con trick, no proof.



The above is a very small sample from the vast number of posts which include unsubstantiated claims, inferred wrong doing and clear personal attack. In addition there are a number of posts which were removed or edited by the site with similar or worse content.

 

[Ross Spur]

Mike's busy today.

 

[pboyles]

Whichwaynow

What about his previous $5 million bankruptcy? You accept this is fact, it was referred to in a court judgement.

 

[Walter Mitty]

This one's dragging on....

 

[alphadude]

I am not Mike Baghdady and certainly not acting on his behalf so I therefore ask that you retract that false allegation.

if you are not Baghdady then why are you acting like one?

 

[The Leopard]

Just a heads up to some of you posting on here.

Internet Trolls: Websites Will Be Forced To Identify Cyber-Bullies Under Reform Of Libel Laws | UK News | Sky News

Websites Will Be Forced To Identify Trolls | LBC

BBC News - Websites to be forced to identify trolls under new measures

Did you not wonder why I was asking you to back up what you were saying

Do not attempt to intimidate people by making ludicrously false comparisons.

Nicola Brookes was a private individual who was branded a drug dealer and paedophile after (I believe) making a comment about someone on a television programme.

Mike Baghdady is someone offering a product or service to the public. This is aggressively promoted using claims that have been shown to be false. A large part of his promotional activities lean upon his own accomplishments, past, skills, claims and character. It is therefore right that people debate these in a public forum.

 

[The Leopard]

WhichPoopyNow, your long post is so full of fatuous drivel I cannot be bothered to fisk it thoroughly, and besides 2:30 approaches.

But to give just a couple of examples (second one to follow in a subsequent post):

It it part of normal business operation for a company to have debts, it is not wrong to point these out, although not considered decent practice, it is wrong to infer wrongdoing.

It has not been alleged that he has debts such as a company routinely has. It has been alleged that he is being aggressively pursued by creditors for non-payment in what is (presumably) a breach of the terms of agreements between debtor and creditors. It has rather ironically been alleged that one such creditor is his former firm of solicitors - a firm allegedly used to bring pressure to bear upon T2W to remove posts and threads relating to him.

We do not know whether these allegations are true or false. We simply know that they have been made and (as far as I am aware) not denied by persons competent to do so. This is of course interesting in itself, given the alleged activity in taking action against allegedly false (or at least unproven or disputed) claims in the past, although the mere absence of denial is obviously not proof of guilt.

But for you to attempt to conflate the two scenarios is so ludicrous that I struggle to believe that someone could sincerely make such an argument.

 

[pipsplease]

WhichWayNow.

You appear to be someone Baghdady has adopted to post on his behalf. Your postings cleary evidence defence of Baghdady despite your earlier claims.

You seem to be standing on a big soapbox on behalf of the great man. Rather odd.
Anyway, I reproduce two pieces of simple clear and unarguable evidence to support what has been stated here earlier and to totally confound what you have said in your latest rant.

1. No evidence of taking money and doing a runner.
Here is the actual post from otto9586. It clearly states in his own words what happened. I suppose that you will state that otto9586 has to prove it. Well before you do, the sales team (ex) at TT have already confirmed that otto9586 did indeed pay in advance and of course as Training Traders offices are empty he did not get to take the course. He cannot get anyone to refund him the money. Simple.

"I unfortunately, to my loss it seems, parted with my hard earned money in December 2011 with a course booked for February 2012.
Days before the course start date it was cancelled. Now i know why!!!
Went to Camperdown offices this week, no-one there and office completely empty.
Can anyone on here help me with the following.
1) Are they still trading anywhere.
2)Have they gone bankrupt.
3) What is their registered name at companies house.
4) How do i go about getting my money back.

Many thanks in advance.

Pete"
2. Evidence of being a bankrupt despite publically stating that he never was.
Here is a copy of the court judgement again. Please read it this time. It highlights the fact and is a clear and objective statement on his character. This has nothing to do with his later Chapter11 file. This is a court judgement Maybe you might accept the word of a United States Judge, then again.

 

[Hoggums]

Mike's busy today.

that's probably because no-one's signed up to his new "free" offer.

 

[pipsplease]

The vast majority of the posts are not as crystal clear as you would propose, and that is backed up with the comments from Malcolm Steel. This forum is an outright attack and anybody who even has a whisper of a good word to say for Mike Baghdady or his products it attacked and ridiculed by a group of serial posters. Who have gone so far as to harass him online during a presentation, screaming profanities and colluding on T2W in order to carry off the heist.
The arguments that you would propose to be the truth are thin to say the very least.

Err, would this be same Malcolm Steel who told us in no uncertain terms that the Bailiffs had never visited the offices of Training traders????

They did. Three times.

Boy, do we miss Malcolm!!!!

 

[The Leopard]

WhichWayPoopy,

To give one further example:

In your long post you make reference to the 'Champion' claim. You dismiss this as being merely "an example of padding to increase impact" and state that "there is no proof that this was a deliberate act to soliciat [sic] sales".

First, I have already demonstrated that far from being "padding" there is a world, so to speak, of difference between the between being World Trading Champion and World of Trading Champion. You have trouble grasping this although it is so obvious I struggle to believe that your difficulty is sincere. However, the difference is vital and so I will explain again.

The difference between the two is not one small conjunction of no consequence, but a vast and practically unbridgeable gulf. "World Trading Champion" implies a large, global contest where the best professional traders compete against each other in a meaningful sense - that is to say using a significant sum of their own money and over a meaningful period. Otherwise the event is useless, as it has little to do with the reality of trading, their skill in which they are attempting to prove.

What occurred instead was (I understand) a few hours of "trading" on demo against a few other vendors (they might also be profitable traders, although I am not aware that this has been established).

Comparing the two is like comparing the appearance of Gaz Jones before the local magistrates accused of shoplifting a four pack of Stella from the local Rhythm N' Booze, with the Nuremberg Trials. In other words, ludicrous beyond imagining.

The matter of whether the claim was false has I believe already been established - please correct me if I am wrong, and I will amend this.

So the key question is whether the error was made deliberately or not. Is it likely that a 30 year veteran, a successful millionaire trader, a former head trader at the NYBOT, a man who had trained traders at so many of the world's leading financial institutions... (continued p.89) would confuse the two scenarios?

I confess that I do not know, although it strikes me as highly improbable. The further question is whether the two scenarios are likely to have a differing impact on prospective clients, and it seems to me overwhelmingly likely that they would.

Therefore the matter is a serious one.

Whether the claim is an honest mistake or a deliberate attempt to mislead, I suppose only a court could decide. That something is odd is not of course evidence of fraud or similar but the matter really does need addressing, and should be easy to do so. Perhaps the error was just a typing mistake? 'If' is such a little word after all! The invitation to explain was extended to Training Traders, but no serious reply was made. It is not to be wondered at therefore if people examine the facts and draw their own conclusions.

 

[the hare]

Whether the claim is an honest mistake or a deliberate attempt to mislead, I suppose only a court could decide..

Well he does have previous history of deliberately misleading, and a court has found him guilty of common law fraud.

I suppose that its possible that he's rehabilitated, and those sorts of shenanigans are in the past. But maybe a leopard really doesn't change its spots.

 

[Riddick]

WhichWayNow.

You appear to be someone Baghdady has adopted to post on his behalf. Your postings cleary evidence defence of Baghdady despite your earlier claims.

You seem to be standing on a big soapbox on behalf of the great man. Rather odd.
Anyway, I reproduce two pieces of simple clear and unarguable evidence to support what has been stated here earlier and to totally confound what you have said in your latest rant.

1. No evidence of taking money and doing a runner.
Here is the actual post from otto9586. It clearly states in his own words what happened. I suppose that you will state that otto9586 has to prove it. Well before you do, the sales team (ex) at TT have already confirmed that otto9586 did indeed pay in advance and of course as Training Traders offices are empty he did not get to take the course. He cannot get anyone to refund him the money. Simple.

"I unfortunately, to my loss it seems, parted with my hard earned money in December 2011 with a course booked for February 2012.
Days before the course start date it was cancelled. Now i know why!!!
Went to Camperdown offices this week, no-one there and office completely empty.
Can anyone on here help me with the following.
1) Are they still trading anywhere.
2)Have they gone bankrupt.
3) What is their registered name at companies house.
4) How do i go about getting my money back.

Many thanks in advance.

Pete"
2. Evidence of being a bankrupt despite publically stating that he never was.
Here is a copy of the court judgement again. Please read it this time. It highlights the fact and is a clear and objective statement on his character. This has nothing to do with his later Chapter11 file. This is a court judgement Maybe you might accept the word of a United States Judge, then again.

Mike Baghdady was the plaintiff ie, he brought the case. no charges were brought against him.

 

[pboyles]

Mike Baghdady was the plaintiff ie, he brought the case. no charges were brought against him.

What are you talking about, the Robbins Futures case? Yes Baghdady brought the case but Robbins counter sued, Baghdady was the defendant in that case and he lost. An award was made against Baghdady for common law fraud amongst other things.

In relation to the previous $5 million bankruptcy, not connected to Robbins case, Baghdady was clearly not the plaintiff. I think you need to read the documents before commenting.

 

[Riddick]

What are you talking about, the Robbins Futures case? Yes Baghdady brought the case but Robbins counter sued, Baghdady was the defendant in that case and he lost. An award was made against Baghdady for common law fraud amongst other things.

In relation to the previous $5 million bankruptcy, not connected to Robbins case, Baghdady was clearly not the plaintiff. I think you need to read the documents before commenting.

So what, in The States, people sue one another all of the time, you are taking this case and saying that Baghdady has not learned from it. It doesnt take away from the fact that on this forum what has happened has affected the lives of many people who worked for Baghdady in the understanding that the were training people who wanted to learn about trading from somebody with propper experience in the markets. There are many gurus out there who after 2/3 years trading propose that they know all of the pitfalls in trading and can train you to trade for a career or to generate your income. What I do not understand is that there are a small group of you on this forum who want to take away from anybody who is interested to hear what Baghdady has to say and it is unfair, just because you do not want to consume the product does not mean that it could not be of benefit to another person who is interested, 1 mans meat is another mans poison. This is something that I do not understand?

You have obviously put a lot of time and effort into creating all of the posts on this forum and it is commendable but I do not see the point. Having been a reader of this forum for some time, I think that it sad that you cannot PBoyles speically find something good to say about Baghdady or Training Traders, I see a lot of work and effort from both parties and I was in the office in Camperdown street, Baghdady was setting up a legitimate business there, sadly it did not work, but remember there is a major recession happening in Europe and despite the fact that the UK has its own currency it is not fully outside of the common market. Trading during a recession has many challenges, why are you bad mouthing somebody who tried so hard to surmount those challenges?

Also many attempts were made to address all of the issues on this forum in detail and directly answering any and all of the issues that you have raised, why can you not be satisfied with that?

I was really interested in the Turtles and really interested to see how they would get on using what Baghdady and Tuckey were training them in. It was a fascinating experiment and in London in an office where people could come in and meet them in person in a friendly yet dynamic atmosphere. It was saddening to see that it had folded, but I thought that it was brave of Baghdady to send a representative of the company on T2W to try to explain and address all of the issues on the forum furthermore to let people know that the turtles were doing a great job when they were in business and had an office in London.